I prefer the way that Barassi explained it to all of his players. He saw a distinct difference between talent and ability when it came to footballers. He would tell them that natural ability would only get them so far. Talent was when they successfully coupled this ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices, etc.

You won't find his distinctions in the dictionary, but I always knew what he meant and it made perfect sense to me.

It might be a tad obtuse for some.

The one handed Mark he took against I think Port Adelaide, showed me that he already is a star-it just depends how brightly & fior how long that star burns...............

It might be a tad obtuse for some.

It's not obtuse, it's just incorrect. If it gets the point across, I suppose it doesn't really matter though.

The one handed Mark he took against I think Port Adelaide, showed me that he already is a star-it just depends how brightly & fior how long that star burns...............

It just means that he has freakish ability.

Stars regularly infkuence the outcomes of games at pivotal moments. Let's hope he becomes one.

It just means that he has freakish ability.

Stars regularly infkuence the outcomes of games at pivotal moments. Let's hope he becomes one.

he almsot did in round 22...lucky he left the field hey !!

It's not obtuse, it's just incorrect. If it gets the point across, I suppose it doesn't really matter though.

How often do you hear how "talented" player X is ? Unfortunaltely, the world is full of unfulfilled talents. Barassi's point was that you may have untold natural ability, but genuine talent is when that ability is maximised. You say that this is "incorrect". Please yourself. It matters little.

Jurrah will be a star when he maximises his God given talent. Demon supporters have had so little to get excited about that one can't begrudge their premature evaluations. At least he has the ability to become a star, which can't be said for many others. Though perhaps that's changing.

How often do you hear how "talented" player X is ? Unfortunaltely, the world is full of unfulfilled talents. Barassi's point was that you may have untold natural ability, but genuine talent is when that ability is maximised. You say that this is "incorrect". Please yourself. It matters little.

Great, I'm glad we agree that it doesn't matter which way you word it. I look forward to the next argument in semantics.

Great, I'm glad we agree that it doesn't matter which way you word it. I look forward to the next argument in semantics.

Just trying to educate the odd little nerd.

I prefer the way that Barassi explained it to all of his players. He saw a distinct difference between talent and ability when it came to footballers. He would tell them that natural ability would only get them so far. Talent was when they successfully coupled this ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices, etc.

You won't find his distinctions in the dictionary, but I always knew what he meant and it made perfect sense to me.

It might be a tad obtuse for some.

This is gold. Its important and not a semantic. Shows why Barrass was so good

Ability (able-ity, if you like) is what your born able to do,

Talent, is when ability is actually displayed.

Just to throw a spanner in the works here.

Having looked through the thread to gauge posters positions - it stands at (give or take a couple who I have inferred answers from) as though the voting is:

YES: 13

NO: 16

The one handed Mark he took against I think Port Adelaide, showed me that he already is a star-it just depends how brightly & fior how long that star burns...............

StKilda.

StKilda.

And Sydney.

Almost blew my stack when he took that mark in Manuka. The same match I ran from centre wing to behind the goals when Wrecker took an amazing speccie 95 out from goal and then kicked a left foot torpedo against the wind for a goal.

StKilda.

And Geelong.

The bloke took some good grabs I think we can all agree.

And no he isn't a star of the game.

Aaron Davey is.

But that is another argument...

Just to throw a spanner in the works here. Having looked through the thread to gauge posters positions - it stands at (give or take a couple who I have inferred answers from) as though the voting is: YES: 13 NO: 16

Geez it's close! Glad you have come back, I thought you had moved on...

I thought so to, but being 22 I'm always told I'm supposed to be a headstrong, arrogant little so and so.

So why not play the part.

14-18 Interesting though, 14-18 versus 60-24

Edited October 30, 200915 yr by 45hotgod16

And Sydney. Almost blew my stack when he took that mark in Manuka. The same match I ran from centre wing to behind the goals when Wrecker took an amazing speccie 95 out from goal and then kicked a left foot torpedo against the wind for a goal.

That was a good one. He makes his opponent want to dig a hole and hide after those freakish marks. Can we compare anyone like him before in the game?

In what way?

In what way?

The one grab - one handed marks, the confidence and composure he has on field, the leaps, the digits (fingers) that span like a fan whilst flying for marks, characteristics, etc.

So..to pose the devils advocacy, if those suggesting hes not a star yet, then he must be by the 'yet" a star in the making. If he's a star in the making( bysuch definition ) then he is already a star, just not quite so bright.

I think your logic is faulty.

It relies on an assumption that isn't necessarily held by others.

You suggest that the 'yet' implies inevitability - it doesn't.

I prefer the way that Barassi explained it to all of his players. He saw a distinct difference between talent and ability when it came to footballers. He would tell them that natural ability would only get them so far. Talent was when they successfully coupled this ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices, etc.

You won't find his distinctions in the dictionary, but I always knew what he meant and it made perfect sense to me.

It might be a tad obtuse for some.

...or maybe some simply don't agree that talent requires that you turn your ability into success. It's hardly a concept that's 'a tad obtuse' for very many - most children have it drummed into them many times.

To suggest talent is the successful coupling of ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices etc is IMO incorrect, and certainly contradicts dictionary definitions and common usage.

If Barrassi wanted to define talent in this manner and it worked then good for him. I doubt any success he did have was linked to the specific words used though.

EDIT: I didn't read Nasher's reply, which provided a more succint reply than mine.

This is gold. Its important and not a semantic. Shows why Barrass was so good

Gold? Telling people they need to work hard to realise their potential, make the most of their ability?

Come on..! You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the history of footy that hasn't talked about it (although they may not have suggested the realisation of ability was 'talent').

Just trying to educate the odd little nerd.

An education in what? Separating ability and output is hardly a concept Barassi can claim credit for. Whatever the merits of the distinction the semantics are wrong, and idolisation of a footballing great needn't cloud that.

By the way, I know you've asserted your penchant to 'tell it like it is', but civility isn't a sign of intellectual weakness.

With no pre season, completely foreign surroundings etc. and he kicks 20 goals in 9 games with the worst supply into the forward line in history....

Not to mention he spent a fair bit of time up the ground too.....

Not to forget he had a helping hand in a handful of goal assists.....

To be comparing him with Cuthbertson is unjust, whom had better supply, played 95%+ in the forward line and was playing in a team who's agenda was to actually win !!!

It would be interesting to know what Jurrah's stats would be if he was let off the leash this year ????

Instead of being dragged and pushed up the field due to a ( I must say very fruitful ) agenda.

Having said that It's too early too call him a star yet. Maybe a star in the making is more apt.

We will have to see how he handles the extra attention from the opposition next year as it is surely coming his way.

As discussed, he has taken 3 ripping one handers; the best one was against Geelong, the 2nd best one was against StKilda, and the 3rd best one was against Sydney.

I believe if we judged players on the amount of spectacular, 1 handed marks they take per game, Jurrah would be the greatest player of all time already. Someone should make a poll about that actually.

Gold? Telling people they need to work hard to realise their potential, make the most of their ability?

Come on..! You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the history of footy that hasn't talked about it (although they may not have suggested the realisation of ability was 'talent').

Gees, dont over-simplify or anything..

Its an important difference, his 'ability vs talent' view (esp for young players coming thru), that he focussed on.

He was coaching in the 60s and may have been one of the 1st to really stress the point.

It was part of his 'way' and it got results..

Edited October 31, 200915 yr by DemonDan...

No i Just used the names as an example. I was not saying it was your opinion at all.

I mean this thread is outrageous-Darren Cuthbertson is being spoken of in hushed tones!!!!

love watching him play.... .but not a star yet ...... hopefully will be in time

Gees, dont over-simplify or anything..

Its an important difference, his 'ability vs talent' view (esp for young players coming thru), that he focussed on.

He was coaching in the 60s and may have been one of the 1st to really stress the point.

It was part of his 'way' and it got results..

Are you serious? Barassi was the first to stress that you can't skate by on ability alone? Since the beginning of time people have been told that ability isn't enough in itself, and this applies to all endeavours - not just football.

Btw, talent = ability.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure you're not just having me on. If so, I took the bait hook, line and sinker.

Jurrah is definitely a star. The instinct, the talent, the ability; 2009 was just a glimpse of what's to come from the Warlpiri Wizard.

...or maybe some simply don't agree that talent requires that you turn your ability into success. It's hardly a concept that's 'a tad obtuse' for very many - most children have it drummed into them many times.

To suggest talent is the successful coupling of ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices etc is IMO incorrect, and certainly contradicts dictionary definitions and common usage.

If Barrassi wanted to define talent in this manner and it worked then good for him. I doubt any success he did have was linked to the specific words used though.

........

........

An education in what? Separating ability and output is hardly a concept Barassi can claim credit for. Whatever the merits of the distinction the semantics are wrong, and idolisation of a footballing great needn't cloud that.

By the way, I know you've asserted your penchant to 'tell it like it is', but civility isn't a sign of intellectual weakness.

Barassi would have learnt much from his peers, such as his coach in Norm Smith.

I prefer the way that Barassi explained it to all of his players. He saw a distinct difference between talent and ability when it came to footballers. He would tell them that natural ability would only get them so far. Talent was when they successfully coupled this ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices, etc.

-Hannibal

Some may argue this. And that's fine. I believe that many Melbourne supporters/members that know footy - as do many here on this site, would know that Liam Jurrah has outstanding ability. Some would say from what they've seen, "the kid's got terrific ability."

Liam has made sacrifices already in his life, leaving his family and community to follow his dreams, he is dedicated to what he does on and off the field. We're fortunate enough to be privvy to some of this knowledge here at Demonland.

From what we've seen of Liam he is undoubtedly still young to the game at AFL level. However, Liam is a very competent, accurate and confident kick of the footy, is an "exceptional talent" - (D/B.), already a great aerialist and superb mark. Hand-eye co-ordination excellent. Oozes confidence.

Yes, it is early days. Yes, he has played only 9 AFL games. Yes, his team finished last on the ladder in season 2009. Yes, he hasn't had a whole lot of game time. Yes, he can learn his game more. Yes, he will be tested and perhaps scrutinised more by opposition. Evidently, these are the points that currently prevent him from being a "star", for the moment. According to some. A few say it will take at least 50 games, some say he must kick 80 goals plus for two seasons and receive AA status, before he becomes a star of the Mfc. Some even say, wait at least 2-3 years of great footy.

So, as you can see there is a bit of "procedural red tape" to be followed before he can be officially given this "star" status for the Mfc. According to some. And that is fine.

At the end of the day, it's a forum based on the opinions of many, far and wide. If some don't think he is a star yet, so be it. If the majority do, so be it. We know Liam has talent. We know he has outstanding natural ability. We look forward to him improving certain aspects of his game within the team.

One things for sure, he will certainly drag a few more through the gates.

Much like Cyril Rioli at Hawthorn. Now, isn't he a star at Hawthorn!

Edited November 1, 200915 yr by High Tower