The Herald Sun list without Melbourne. (Or with an invisible Melbourne, depending on your perspective, or lack of it.)

Apparently there were originally 16 teams listed, but a sub-editor felt two Collingwood paragraphs was one too many.

I'm not sure that Josh Fraser is a ruckman these days i.e. I think his body isn't up to the physical work required.

Probably right.

Luke Ball wants out of St.Kilda and Collingwood is his preferred team.

If a deal can't be done (I think Josh Fraser swapped for Luke Ball would be a win-win situation for both clubs) and St.Kilda force him into the draft does Melbourne take him with their #1 pick (Ball is a quality player and proven at the highest level) or do they stick with drafting the kids? If they do take Ball, do they try to organise a deal with Collingwood whereby they trade him on to his preferred club in exchange for Fraser (I still rate him as a ruckman and above what we've got)?

TBH I don't rate Fraser as a ruckman. More a mobile bigman for the forward line. He struggles against the bigger physical more skilled types. Ie. Cox, Jolly, Gardiner, King, Ottens, McIntosh.

If the Pies look to Ball, they would have to give 14 and maybe a player or another pick, seeing as McLean was given for pick 11, in my eyes. What do others think of Ball's market value? He is older than McLean, but rates higher I think.

I would have thought the Hawks would be after Jolly if they can't seal the deal with Burgoyne.

If Port don't like A.Lovett, who else could they get in exchange for Burgoyne at the Bombers?

The Burgoyne scenario will involve a 3-way deal IMO, will the Demons be involved? Port-Swans-Hawks perhaps?

from afl.com.au

MELBOURNE is still trying to secure further draft selections in this week's trade period, although any further deals the club is in involved in probably won't occur until Thursday or Friday.

Club list manager Tim Harrington said the Demons were pleased to already have four picks in the top 18 of next month's NAB AFL Draft, but gaining more would be sweeter again.

"[We're] trying to improve our picking position, really" he told afl.com.au on Tuesday.

"We've got 1, 2, 11 and 18, which are great picks, and the others at the moment at picks 34 and 50, so we're just trying to wind those down as best we can.

"It'll be the bigger deals that actually go first and then ours later on."

After trading midfielder Brock McLean to Carlton for pick No.11 on Monday, Harrington said Melbourne was unlikely to take part in another trade of that profile.

"I would think now that the Brock deal is done, we won't have a whole lot of play in trade week," he said.

"But that's what we're doing – ringing [clubs] and getting on the front foot and just finding out what's happening out there, so that we might improve the position of the club.

"That's what I'm working on in the next couple of days."

I wish the newspapers would write like this Oracle.

http://twitter.com/Whitey927

Progress was made yesterday arvo so I guess the idea of us picking him up looks unlikely.

We should see him in a Hawks uniform next year.

Also, Lake has agreed to a new 4 year deal at the kennel.

DAY TWO by The Oracle

BRIGHT LIGHTS AND PROMISES

It was inevitable after the opening day's flurry of exchanges that there would be a change of tempo. Things slowed on the second day but still two more players had swapped guernseys by late afternoon when trading closed.

First up was the announcement from the Western Bulldogs that welcomed controversial former Sydney Swans forward Barry Hall to the Whitten Oval. It was a case of déjà vu for coach Rodney Eade who was at Sydney when Hall joined the Swans for the 2002 season.

Hall isn't giving any guarantees but is confident that he can keep his anger management issues in check. The irony of the trade was that it came just a day after one of his most famous victims, Brent Staker, crossed to the Brisbane Lions. The Hall trade cost the Bulldogs their third round draft pick at number 47 but the clubs also agreed on a swap of later picks to be made public before the end of the exchange period.

The day's second deal came as something of a surprise when Essendon's Andrew Lovett ended his troubled career at Bomberland with a move to St. Kilda which gave up its first round selection at 16 for the speedster.

There was one more trade. Brisbane and Sydney exchanged third round draft picks, 47 for 39, the former having been acquired in the Hall trade. The transaction was the residual part of the previous day's three club exchange.

The Hall trade also gave rise to the nerve jangling headline of the day from the AFL website, "Demons are gone: Baz" which came just hours after the Herald Sun omitted Melbourne altogether from its round up of club trading activity on day one. The reference on the website was to Hall's on field demons and not the Melbourne Demons but the latter are apparently happy to keep a low profile for the time being. That's according to list manager Tim Harrington who said that while the Demons were pleased to have four picks in the top 18 in next month's draft, but gaining more would be "sweeter again". He indicated that he would try to secure further draft selections although any further deals "probably won't occur until Thursday or Friday.

With nothing much else going on it was time to mull over the morning's article about Brock McLean who told the Herald Sun that he no longer felt 100 per cent committed to the club.

"I had started to feel a bit unhappy and once we finished the season and I had more time to think about it, I realised if I played with Melbourne again then it would be without 100 per cent commitment."

He added that driving distance from his home in Maribyrnong to Casey was also a consideration. Please, Brock. You jumped ship because the tiring drive took too much out of you?

I've often said that players changing clubs would be better off putting themselves under a self-imposed media embargo lest they make complete twits out of themselves. McLean's comments simply reinforce that view and sharpens my understanding of why his leadership prospects at the Demons vanished into thin air in the space of three years. Enjoy Vegas and thank you Carlton for pick 11!

McLean did make an interesting observation of his former club's future prospects.

"I will always have friends at the club and Melbourne will win a premiership sooner than a lot of other clubs in the competition. They are about to see some reward and within four to six years you will see them there on the last day in September," he said.

When that day comes, McLean won't be around. Much in the same way that Nathan Buckley who left Brisbane so many years ago in search of the bright lights and promises of Collingwood wasn't there as the Lions roared when their own time finally came.

Completed Trades on Day Two:

Trade 5 Barry Hall (Sydney) and to Western Bulldogs*; and

Round three draft pick (No. 47) to Sydney*

Trade 6 Andrew Lovett (Essendon) to St. Kilda; and

Round one draft pick (No. 16) to Essendon

Trade 7 Round three draft pick (No.47) to Brisbane Lions; and

Round three draft pick (No.39) to Sydney*

The two clubs will also swap later picks with the details to be confirmed by the end of Trade Week.

Apparently the progress Hawthorn made is making Campbell Brown available.

Lions are in talks with Jesse Smith from Roos and Xavier Clarke from Saints,they sure are busy in trade week

http://twitter.com/Whitey927

Progress was made yesterday arvo so I guess the idea of us picking him up looks unlikely.

We should see him in a Hawks uniform next year.

Also, Lake has agreed to a new 4 year deal at the kennel.

Gun slipping to PSD looking much less likely

Gun slipping to PSD looking much less likely

Very nervous;

* Brian Lake - Hoped he might slip through to the PSD - Signed for 4 years at Dogs

* Peter Burgoyne - Hoped Port played too hard, slip through to PSD - Looks like Hawks make a deal

* Shane Mumford - maybe not a gun (yet), out of contract, PSD smokey - Maybe traded to Sydney for 3 years

* Luke Ball - would have been a steal in PSD - Going to Collingwod

Who is this "GUN" we are going to get in the PSD??? What "guns" are still out of contract?

Potential for Melbourne to have pulled off biggest signing of the year and be well respected by the AFL community, or been a touch arrogant by thinking PSD #1 is worht more than what it actually is, therefore not trading for a better player.

Will wait to see what Cameron Schwab has got to say come Friday 2pm, and again at the end of the PSD.

Very nervous;

* Brian Lake - Hoped he might slip through to the PSD - Signed for 4 years at Dogs

* Peter Burgoyne - Hoped Port played too hard, slip through to PSD - Looks like Hawks make a deal

* Shane Mumford - maybe not a gun (yet), out of contract, PSD smokey - Maybe traded to Sydney for 3 years

* Luke Ball - would have been a steal in PSD - Going to Collingwod

Who is this "GUN" we are going to get in the PSD??? What "guns" are still out of contract?

Potential for Melbourne to have pulled off biggest signing of the year and be well respected by the AFL community, or been a touch arrogant by thinking PSD #1 is worht more than what it actually is, therefore not trading for a better player.

Will wait to see what Cameron Schwab has got to say come Friday 2pm, and again at the end of the PSD.

It could have been any of those 4 though?

It was never a certain that the player was going to slip through.

Who is this "GUN" we are going to get in the PSD??? What "guns" are still out of contract?

Daniel Harris

He added that driving distance from his home in Maribyrnong to Casey was also a consideration. Please, Brock. You jumped ship because the tiring drive took too much out of you?

Brock never came across as a lazy sod but the excuse about distance travelled for parts of the year to Casey sound like a very poor attempt to rationalize his situation.

Perhaps he thought that with all of those young blokes coming into the midfield next year, he might have to make a few more trips to Casey than he would have liked!

I don't know why anyone ever expected anything much in terms of 'gun' recycled players in the PSD. Clubs won't let it get to that point anymore. There has been the odd 'bargain' due to stubborn clubs like Port not wanting to lose out in a trade, but i think clubs now subscribe to the theory that even a lopsided trade is better than no compensation at all. Now that uncontracted players generally nominate fore the national draft rather than PSD to ensure they get to the club they want, I think the PSD is more about untried rookies and lesser lights looking for a 2nd chance. It will be very rare to get a Nick Stevens in the PSD from now on - unless of course the 'big' clubs have the top PSD picks (ie. if Carlton had finished last, they would be able to pursuade a Burgoyne to nominate for the PSD to get him for free and shaft PA).

Brown not going.Come to dees Shaun

I don't know why anyone ever expected anything much in terms of 'gun' recycled players in the PSD. Clubs won't let it get to that point anymore. There has been the odd 'bargain' due to stubborn clubs like Port not wanting to lose out in a trade, but i think clubs now subscribe to the theory that even a lopsided trade is better than no compensation at all. Now that uncontracted players generally nominate fore the national draft rather than PSD to ensure they get to the club they want, I think the PSD is more about untried rookies and lesser lights looking for a 2nd chance. It will be very rare to get a Nick Stevens in the PSD from now on - unless of course the 'big' clubs have the top PSD picks (ie. if Carlton had finished last, they would be able to pursuade a Burgoyne to nominate for the PSD to get him for free and shaft PA).

Yep. PSD pick 1 is actually worth very little, not worth delisting one of our current players for, unless there's a major stuff-up.

But if you go on our last two PSD picks, it still might have some currency.

But if you go on our last two PSD picks, it still might have some currency.

No doubt the 1st selection in any draft has value, and the PSD is by no means useless. However it is now more about recognizing an obscure or unconventional talent (ie. Jurrah, Martin) rather than snaring an established star.

There usually isn't this much action in trade week though, if the winds blow enough trees something is bound to fall out.

I agree... use the PSD #1 to get a smokey 19 to 21 year old... a la Jurrah.

But if there is someone of quality such as Burgoyne, Lake or any other established, proven performer then utilize it for that.

I agree... use the PSD #1 to get a smokey 19 to 21 year old... a la Jurrah.

But if there is someone of quality such as Burgoyne, Lake or any other established, proven performer then utilize it for that.

I can't see us using it on a young player though.

Jurrah was a special case, etc, we all know that.

However all other youth in the PSD we can pick up in the National draft, so we may as well use pick 50, as we are sure to get a better young player.

If there is someone we've sweet talked to come into the PSD then use the pick. However if by Nov. 26 there are no uncontracted players that we take a liking to then use pick 50.

What about Wojinski. Does anyone else rate him? He is super quick. I keep thinking he could be the one. (PSD#1). Not really a star, but I think he could be a handy pick up for nothing.

Interesting to view the Picks as they Stand link on afl.com.au

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=85726

Amazing to think back to the Melbourne, Richmond game earlier this year. A game that for me showed me what real trouble Richmond is in. I thought at the time that they would be active in trade week, trying as best they could to improve their draft position, but I have not heard a thing from them all week.

Compare our 4 Picks in the top 18 to their, 4 Picks in the top 44 !

Stunned mullets should be trying, but don't know who or what they have to offer?

Anyone like the Daniel Bell & Pick 50 to Carlton for pick 27? I think there will be about 3 of this type of trade by the Dees by the end of the week.

The Fork - Thanks for posting the link to the up-to-date draft selections.

http://www.afl.com.au/News/TradeTalk/tabid...90/default.aspx

Trade 7 it says Sydney trade Brissy for a pic for a higher pick (better).

What have i missed?