Interesting article- would be a bit of a fairytale.

Doubt he is interested tho.

We can always hope...

Lyon or Bailey?

Its a bit early for this isn't it?

If this article came out at the start of next year it would have been a decent read.

As for Garry. He's been off the ground for a long time now. Hasn't done much coaching work apart from the Ireland tours, which was a fair while ago. If it comes to the point that Bailey needs to be replaced then I hope Garry puts his hand up. But I hope its not handed to him on a platter just because he is one of the 'old boys'

Im backing Bailey will getting his contract renewed.

i would be dissapointed for bailey to do the hard work with a crap list, then get sacked so lyon can have the time in the sun.

no offence to lyon, he hasn't put his hand up, but if the plan was to bring in another coach, at that point i would hope it was an experienced coach who could a) whip the side into shape quickly and B) use proven game day/ match winning tactics.

but i hope bailey gets the nod unless he is deemed to be failing according to criteria set out for him.

And this is news?

This is unimaginitive, predictable, old journalism. Whenever the dees go bad for a season, his name is brought up, despite the fact it's nowhere near happening. Gary would be stupid to trade in his life's work off the field. He's on a good wicket.

This is just another example of how little these "journalists" know... or maybe how little there is to know. They trot out the same crap over and over.

Yawn.

If he wants to write something relevant, then he should politely ask Dean Bailey of he can sit in on a few training sessions and see if he can glean something from that. He would then, shock horror, be writing about the current coach, instead of lazily sitting back of providing the same puff pieces we see time and time again. No wonder no-one takes him seriously.

That article was pure MFC pornography.

Designed to titillate and romanticise us into cutting what little patience we do have with Bailey even shorter.

We would have to have a painful end to this year and an awful start to next for this to even be remotely in the realms of plausibility.

  rpfc said:

That article was pure MFC pornography.

Designed to titillate and romanticise us into cutting what little patience we do have with Bailey even shorter.

We would have to have a painful end to this year and an awful start to next for this to even be remotely in the realms of plausibility.

I agree with your sentiment but I think that come 2011 we will be under a new coach.

Happy to read this. Bailey needs to feel some pressure. Rebuilding or not our win loss ratio is completely unacceptable. The reason we are so mediocre is because most of us accept this because of a carrot waved in our faces in the form of draft picks. Let's not beat around the bush, the last 3 years are fitzroy like.

  barpen said:

Interesting article- would be a bit of a fairytale.

Doubt he is interested tho.

We can always hope...

Lyon or Bailey?

YES it would be fantastic to have a real DEMON superstar at the helm

Every criticism directed at bailey in that article could have been directed at Ross Lyon in his first two years at St.Kilda. The only difference is that Ross Lyon inherited a team with some genuine stars that had failed to live up to expectations. He taught the Saints a new game style and a new work ethic. No-one's calling Ross Lyon boring and uninspiring now! Bailey will have his time in the sun with a team brimming with talent. He is like Lyon, a teaching coach who I have no doubt will take the Dees to finals quality football.

GARRY LYON on the other hand, is an ego driven media personality, who while he may have some good people skills, has no proven coaching record except three games at the helm of the international rules team. Talented players DO NOT necessarily make good coaches.

The best coaches of the last forty years have fallen into two categories.

One group are the more talented, smart and carismatic team leaders - Matthews, Blight, Roos, Barassi*.

The other group is much larger. These are fiercely determined, usually very smart thinking but battling players who relied on committment and brains raher than sublime talent. They are often defenders. - Kennedy, Jeans, Hafey, Parkin, Malthouse, Sheedy, Malthouse, Thompson.

I think that bailey will eventually fit into the second group if he is successful, and I believe he will be.

Just for interest sake, here are some of the sublimely talented and high profile coaching flops - Watson, Hart, Bartlett, Baldock, Walls (some will dispute this one)

There is another group. Its the coaches that may have had moderate or limited success - Eade, Wallace, Northey, Shaw.

The current crop includes Ratten, Bailey, Lyon, Clarkson, Voss, Clarkson, Craig, Williams. All thinkers with varying degrees of football talent but only Voss would fit into the first group. The others would be more likely to fit into the second.

Garry Lyon should have put his hand up two years ago if he wanted to coach the Dees.

  btdemon said:

Every criticism directed at bailey in that article could have been directed at Ross Lyon in his first two years at St.Kilda. The only difference is that Ross Lyon inherited a team with some genuine stars that had failed to live up to expectations. He taught the Saints a new game style and a new work ethic. No-one's calling Ross Lyon boring and uninspiring now! Bailey will have his time in the sun with a team brimming with talent. He is like Lyon, a teaching coach who I have no doubt will take the Dees to finals quality football.

GARRY LYON on the other hand, is an ego driven media personality, who while he may have some good people skills, has no proven coaching record except three games at the helm of the international rules team. Talented players DO NOT necessarily make good coaches.

The best coaches of the last forty years have fallen into two categories.

One group are the more talented, smart and carismatic team leaders - Matthews, Blight, Roos, Barassi*.

The other group is much larger. These are fiercely determined, usually very smart thinking but battling players who relied on committment and brains raher than sublime talent. They are often defenders. - Kennedy, Jeans, Hafey, Parkin, Malthouse, Sheedy, Malthouse, Thompson.

I think that bailey will eventually fit into the second group if he is successful, and I believe he will be.

Just for interest sake, here are some of the sublimely talented and high profile coaching flops - Watson, Hart, Bartlett, Baldock, Walls (some will dispute this one)

There is another group. Its the coaches that may have had moderate or limited success - Eade, Wallace, Northey, Shaw.

The current crop includes Ratten, Bailey, Lyon, Clarkson, Voss, Clarkson, Craig, Williams. All thinkers with varying degrees of football talent but only Voss would fit into the first group. The others would be more likely to fit into the second.

Garry Lyon should have put his hand up two years ago if he wanted to coach the Dees.

Great post btd.

  btdemon said:

He is like Lyon, a teaching coach who I have no doubt will take the Dees to finals quality football.

Quite a reasonable assessment, bt, except I'm not sure you can categorically state the above. Unless you've developed a chrystal ball and yet to make it public I'm not sure how you can unequivocally say this. Of course, in time it may prove to be correct, but how do you know ?

And yes, Garry Lyon is unproven. But those that are well respected within the industry are just as sure he'll be successful as you seem to be with the unproven Bailey.

DB will have had 3 years to show a win loss ratio improvement, I think we as supporters would like some wins during the year.

So far 4 in 2 years is nothing to write home about. I cannot see us winning more than 3 games this year and not more than 4 in 2010. No matter how bad the list was we should have seen some improvement by now. I now know we are bad, and not even a G Lyon in 2011 will help but it could get us in more sponsors and with some luck a couple more wins.

It is totally stupid to judge a coach on 2 weeks of football. Anybody with half a football brain knows that it is going to be a long and sometimes painfull process to rebuild a football club. Gerard is just creating a media 'fuss' for his own benefit.

  Pepe Dee Pew said:

It is totally stupid to judge a coach on 2 weeks of football.

How bout 34 ?

I'm not anti Bailey - yet, but it's not unfair to scrutinise his performance. Why would he be immune from the glare. I'm not sure that anyone could have done better than Bailey over the last 18 months. Then again, I'm not sure anyone could have done worse either.

I have my doubts that Lyon will ever leave the media, why would he? He's on a great income, low stress in comparison to coaching, his job is not under threat like it is with coaches and plus if he ever leaves the media gig he faces the risk of the next generation replacing him and not being able to get back in in the same capacity. If he is smart he'll never coach full time.

With Bailey, I still believe that he's the right man for the job now. What I mean by that is that we have a young developing list, and that's his specialty. He's also relatively cheap in comparison to the other higher profile coaches. We were never going to play finals now, we're not in that mode yet. I'd be willing to give him some extra time, I won't start judging him until towards the end of next season.

Scrutinise is fine but judgement should be made on a longer term basis in terms of how the list is progressing in development. For example the club may judge at the start of next year that the list is capable of winning say 7 games. Winning less depending on injury ect may be seen as a coaching failure.

  btdemon said:

Every criticism directed at bailey in that article could have been directed at Ross Lyon in his first two years at St.Kilda. The only difference is that Ross Lyon inherited a team with some genuine stars that had failed to live up to expectations. He taught the Saints a new game style and a new work ethic. No-one's calling Ross Lyon boring and uninspiring now! Bailey will have his time in the sun with a team brimming with talent. He is like Lyon, a teaching coach who I have no doubt will take the Dees to finals quality football.

GARRY LYON on the other hand, is an ego driven media personality, who while he may have some good people skills, has no proven coaching record except three games at the helm of the international rules team. Talented players DO NOT necessarily make good coaches.

The best coaches of the last forty years have fallen into two categories.

One group are the more talented, smart and carismatic team leaders - Matthews, Blight, Roos, Barassi*.

The other group is much larger. These are fiercely determined, usually very smart thinking but battling players who relied on committment and brains raher than sublime talent. They are often defenders. - Kennedy, Jeans, Hafey, Parkin, Malthouse, Sheedy, Malthouse, Thompson.

I think that bailey will eventually fit into the second group if he is successful, and I believe he will be.

Just for interest sake, here are some of the sublimely talented and high profile coaching flops - Watson, Hart, Bartlett, Baldock, Walls (some will dispute this one)

There is another group. Its the coaches that may have had moderate or limited success - Eade, Wallace, Northey, Shaw.

The current crop includes Ratten, Bailey, Lyon, Clarkson, Voss, Clarkson, Craig, Williams. All thinkers with varying degrees of football talent but only Voss would fit into the first group. The others would be more likely to fit into the second.

Garry Lyon should have put his hand up two years ago if he wanted to coach the Dees.

Kennedy was not a defender but a ruckman.

  btdemon said:

The other group is much larger. These are fiercely determined, usually very smart thinking but battling players who relied on committment and brains raher than sublime talent. They are often defenders. - Kennedy, Jeans, Hafey, Parkin, Malthouse, Sheedy, Malthouse, Thompson.

I think that bailey will eventually fit into the second group if he is successful, and I believe he will be.

Just for interest sake, here are some of the sublimely talented and high profile coaching flops - Watson, Hart, Bartlett, Baldock, Walls (some will dispute this one)

There is another group. Its the coaches that may have had moderate or limited success - Eade, Wallace, Northey, Shaw.

Garry Lyon should have put his hand up two years ago if he wanted to coach the Dees.

Good post btd. Agree with most of it. As far as Lyon coaching goes, I was keen on it maybe 5 years ago. Thought he might replace Danners at some stage. But right now, I'm cold on it. I don't think Garry has the competitive drive to coach senior footy right now and not sure he ever will. He's been out of the game a long while now and has a comfy media gig. I can't see him leaving it and to be honest, I wouldn't be any more confident he would get the results we hope for. It's a romantic notion, the idea of a club great holding the premiership cup, the long awaited 13th, but I can't see it happening. If he wanted the job he would have thrown his hat in the ring two years ago. It won't happen.

Right now I'm content with the job Bailey is doing. I think he's going about it the right way. Whether or not he is the right man for the longterm, that is still to be determined, next year is the year we can truly begin to judge Bailey as a coach. He has to start putting wins on the board or he is done. But right now, he has my support.

And as you guessed btd, yes, some of us would dispute your call on Robert Walls. I wouldn't have called him a coaching flop with the likes of Watson. Bit harsh.

  Jarka said:

'plus if he ever leaves the media gig he faces the risk of the next generation replacing him and not being able to get back in in the same capacity.'

If the quality of the incumbent 'next generation' media experts are on par with Shame Crawford then Dollars will always have a gig to fall back on...

Lyon does not want to coach. He chose to go down the media path and there is nothing to suggest that he won't continue that.

If we find ourselves in a similar position next year and the decision is made to move Bailey on I hope it is Todd Viney that takes over.

Oh Gerard you really are a total hack. Get a story, we've all heard this one before. I know Gerard how about the one about Sheedy coaching Richmond. Roll that out. Or wait maybe Malthouse. Better still get off your ass and do what journalists are supposed to do, some research and write an original piece. Your credibility sinks further into the mire.

  Daemn said:

If the quality of the incumbent 'next generation' media experts are on par with Shame Crawford then Dollars will always have a gig to fall back on...

I struggle to think of anyone who is worse than Crawford on tv at the moment, he is absolutely terrible.

  barpen said:

Interesting article- would be a bit of a fairytale.

Doubt he is interested tho.

We can always hope...

Lyon or Bailey?

Lyon definitely - actually i wanted Kevin Sheedy as coach - even though perhaps his ideas may be thought as outdated - he would have got us going more than Bailey...

  Davis333 said:

Its a bit early for this isn't it?

If this article came out at the start of next year it would have been a decent read.

As for Garry. He's been off the ground for a long time now. Hasn't done much coaching work apart from the Ireland tours, which was a fair while ago. If it comes to the point that Bailey needs to be replaced then I hope Garry puts his hand up. But I hope its not handed to him on a platter just because he is one of the 'old boys'

Im backing Bailey will getting his contract renewed.

I don't think he is interested either - and I hope it's not handed to him on a plattter - because I think he has too much to say already and too much influence without acting on it - well and as for Gerard Healy - I know he played for us a long time ago - but I can't stand him - he is always putting us down.

Gerard Healy was one of the people who selected Bailey in the first place! Healy gives me the shits.