You have little asian's in your bath water? People can get arrested for that sort of thing, now I know what type of person you are.

What is that taste in my mouth ?

What were people expecting from Watts? He kicked two goals in just his 2nd game, I thought that would have been enough to get people off his back.

After the debut seasons of players like Rioli and Selwood, supporters seem to expect an immediate impact from their first year players. The popular view used to be that talls took a few years to come on, and that's still true.

Watts could be playing in the TAC Cup this year. He was always going to be a long term investment.

What were people expecting from Watts? He kicked two goals in just his 2nd game, I thought that would have been enough to get people off his back.

After the debut seasons of players like Rioli and Selwood, supporters seem to expect an immediate impact from their first year players. The popular view used to be that talls took a few years to come on, and that's still true.

Watts could be playing in the TAC Cup this year. He was always going to be a long term investment.

Very true wd, added his very late start to his pre season training and he was always going to be a slow starter. Just wait till his body develops and then we'll see what he's capable of.

SICK OF EVERYTHING

Take a Bex or an Aspro, have a good lie down and if that doesn't work see a doctor, or better still, a shrink.

Oh, and leave the umpires alone. Whinging about them won't help.

Just wondering if the scores of 'supporters' that advocate losing who seemed to have swamped Demonland are satisfied with the way we lost last night? Did it fulfill your request for a loss in the appropriate way? Were you comforted by the fact that the figures are looking good? Because to me it feels awful and Picks One and Two aren't going to fix what we saw last night.

If your satisfied by our club losing games then don't complain how they lose them.

We are not setting up for the future right now. We are tearing the hearts out of our young fellas and I feel empty.

If you advocate tanking, you are a tanker.

look at the postives. i thought jurrah was fantastic and i've been spruiking his tallents since i saw him down at casey over a month ago. really an exciting prospect. the knowledge that winning less than five games to recieve an extra future gun in this years draft is of some comfort in times like these. after 2 and a half years of pain, what is another 10 games?

It amazes me that so many can't see the forest for the trees.

If we just look at the Hawks and Blues of a few years ago who everybody would thrash and look at them today. It obviously takes time at the bottom with several draft picks to rebuild. We are doing that and will rise again with a strong list.

How in hell can you expect a young Watts etc to make the difference in his first year as a skinny kid.

I know this is probably wasted on those who just want to win a couple of games now and bugger the future, but be patient the Demons will rise again and hopefully stay up there for a long time.

Very nice comments.

Rightly or Wrongly ... I'm not here to defend the way the AFL system is set up ... "the method" most apparent for both on-field success and very, very importantly off-field viability, that appears, most likely to succeed entails ... you have to be prepared to move backwards before you can proceed to move forward.

As you say Carlton, Hawthorn then you can throw in even the likes of Geelong & St Kilda into the equation. All of them not that long ago where in dire straights.

IMHO ... On-field success will assist in our off-field viability. Importantly ... It wont ensure success only assist.

However, on-field success is based around a very, very non exacting science called trading & drafting. To get "good quality long-term players - you need to get early draft picks - to get early draft picks you need to "manage the system".

Thats just the system, you cant fight it you just have to live with it. You must be pre-pared to take your medicine if you want to cure you ills.

When you "invest in youth" ... you must, must be pre-pared to be very, very patient. A lack of patience is clear path to "football suicide" that will end our football club.

I hate losing as much as the next person. However, I'm prepared to sacrifice a few point-less wins to assist in the viability of this football club ... because the alternative is not a path I even wish to discuss.

In Fevolas first two games he had a combined total of 2 handballs, 0 kicks, 0 goals.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND KEY FORWARDS TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP???

What Watts is doing for his age is phenomenal. I can't believe some people.

I agree entirely, especially with game day tactics and structures.

I'm with you CB. I don't what it is with Bailey, but yet again last night, we played that ridiculous structure whereby the forwards push up into the midfield/defence. It seems as though whenever Bailey thinks the margin is going to blow out he sends the entire team to half back in the hope that the flooding will stem the tide, when it just makes it worse. And the flooding doesn't even work. Essendon were still finding loose players in their 50 despite the entire Melbourne team being in defence.

I would have thought that by now Bailey could have worked out that the reason we over-possess coming out of defence is because there simply isn't anything on offer. Part of that is the fact that our forwards aren't very good, but the major problem is that when we get the ball on half back, there's nothing but opposition players in front of us.

And then in the last quarter, when the game was lost, we, according to Connolly, chose to then take the game on, put some forwards in our forward 50, and we scored some goals.

I don't get it.

Sigh.

Anyway, better to look at the positives from last night, which were Jurrah, Martin, Bate (I thought he was good last night given the lack of opportunities he had. Presented well, kicked very well for goal) and Moloney.

I've been noticing a new phenomenon from generation Y

Like Redleg I'm amazed that so many don't understand, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Gen Y er's don't like waiting. It's instant gratification. My gen Y son just told me he wasn't excited by Jurrah, looked lost, didn't work hard enough. I'm staggered. Not at his observations, but at his attitude and lack of understanding of "process".

This "process" is going to be a hard one for the Gen Y supporters. I wonder if they'll last the distance or if they'll drop off only to return when we have matured as a list.

Very insightful comment H albeit with another thought in mind.

It amazes me that so many can't see the forest for the trees.

If we just look at the Hawks and Blues of a few years ago who everybody would thrash and look at them today. It obviously takes time at the bottom with several draft picks to rebuild. We are doing that and will rise again with a strong list.

How in hell can you expect a young Watts etc to make the difference in his first year as a skinny kid.

I know this is probably wasted on those who just want to win a couple of games now and bugger the future, but be patient the Demons will rise again and hopefully stay up there for a long time.

Thank you red leg my thought in a nutshell

Like Redleg I'm amazed that so many don't understand, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Gen Y er's don't like waiting. It's instant gratification. My gen Y son just told me he wasn't excited by Jurrah, looked lost, didn't work hard enough. I'm staggered. Not at his observations, but at his attitude and lack of understanding of "process".

This "process" is going to be a hard one for the Gen Y supporters. I wonder if they'll last the distance or if they'll drop off only to return when we have matured as a list.

Very insightful comment H albeit with another thought in mind.

This is a ridiculous overgeneralization.

I'd say society as a whole in the present climate cannot stand to wait and want everything immediately. A player who is 19 and in his 6th game is judged on an even harsher scale than someone with 150 games experience, apparently because with expectations on the youth of the team they should be the best afield. However, this is a society that has not been presented by us "Gen Y er's," we are living in a world created by others. If "Gen Y er's" are in such great need for "instant gratification" it is because that is the world that has been created by "baby boomers" and "Gen X er's" who clearly were pretty happy to receieve "instant gratification."

There are plenty of "Gen Y er's" who are patient on this website, I'd have a good look at some of the posters who are wishing to swing the axe and think how old they might be.

The "process" the MFC are undertaking at the moment will be hard for all supporters, but it's rubbish to claim that it'll be harder for us because we're somehow inferior to previous generations. MFC went a generation without success and as such our supporter base is low, what does that tell you about the youth of that generation?

It sounds more like you want to have a go at your "Gen Y er" son than anything else.

I'm with you CB. I don't what it is with Bailey, but yet again last night, we played that ridiculous structure whereby the forwards push up into the midfield/defence. It seems as though whenever Bailey thinks the margin is going to blow out he sends the entire team to half back in the hope that the flooding will stem the tide, when it just makes it worse. And the flooding doesn't even work. Essendon were still finding loose players in their 50 despite the entire Melbourne team being in defence.

I would have thought that by now Bailey could have worked out that the reason we over-possess coming out of defence is because there simply isn't anything on offer. Part of that is the fact that our forwards aren't very good, but the major problem is that when we get the ball on half back, there's nothing but opposition players in front of us.

And then in the last quarter, when the game was lost, we, according to Connolly, chose to then take the game on, put some forwards in our forward 50, and we scored some goals.

I don't get it.

Sigh.

Anyway, better to look at the positives from last night, which were Jurrah, Martin, Bate (I thought he was good last night given the lack of opportunities he had. Presented well, kicked very well for goal) and Moloney.

Nail on head. It's been this way since Round 1, 2007.

Blease better be good, and he well might be. BUT in case he is not, then we'd get two this year. I went last night with ehe hope of a cheeky win - now I'm (feeling sick again) just looking for player development and for weekly losses.

Tim

In response to your question Sam Blease will be better than good.

He will be a line breaking, sublime skilled, game breaking excitement machine.

Put him next to Scully & we potentially have the next Judd/Cousins combo in our hand.

The kid will have no complications from his unfortunate school accident & will be ready to roll in NAB cup 2010.

Patience! Patience! Patience! people, the frame work is still being put in place however the bricks & mortor is not far away.

I know this is probably wasted on those who just want to win a couple of games now and bugger the future, but be patient the Demons will rise again and hopefully stay up there for a long time.

It is mind blowing.

It's embarrassing how posters want draft picks because they recognise we aren't good enough/young yet sick of honorable losses.

Its also the same posters who 4 weeks ago say we are heading the right track after a hard 6 weeks and then after QB, rant about how we are actually going backwards this year.

We are putting games into our kids and (hopefully) taking advantage of the system. That's the script, isn't it?

jack watts ... looks not so great i know his young but every melbourne supporter knows this! do we think he will be great or hope he will be great?

HAHAHA YOU ARE AN IDIOT

ITS HIS SECOND GAME YOU MORON

GOD, there are some stupid people around here.

I'm getting terribly sick of old out of touch journalists and commentators who do not understand that 'goal' is not not a verb. I mean, how many times do these people need to be told that you don't 'goal' you 'score'?

That older generation just don't get it.

Things are never as good or as bad as they seem...

Hawthorn (W-L)

2004: 4-18

2005: 5-17

2006: 9-12

18 wins out of a possible 66 = 27%

Carlton (W-L)

2004: 10-12

2005: 4-18

2006: 3-19

2007: 4-18

21 wins out of a possible 88 = 23%

Essendon (W-L)

2005: 8-14

2006: 3-19

2007: 10-12 (screwed themselves that year, by missing out on top 4 pick)

2008: 8-14

29 wins out of a possible 88= 32%

Melbourne (W-L)

2006: 14-8

2007: 5-17

2008: 3-19

2009: 1-11

23 wins out of a possible 77= 29%

Oh and please let's not generalise all Gen Y's as being impatient. Some of us can actually see the value in building for long term success.

Just watched the Bailey press conference on line. He looks like a man who's out of ideas.

-----------------

Has our list gotten to the point where it's uncoachable and unwinnable?

Would love to know what were his previous ideas....Playing an offensive threat in Davey out of position as the invogue quarter-back role - super outcome that one.

When is the footy club going to cut its losses. Bailey has backed the wrong donkeys on-field and among his coaching staff and results are reflecting this.

I thought last night's game was the line in sand moment for a team that has been 'haunted' by our previous performance against the pies...I was there and was disappointed! G Lyon is on the money...the MFC need to be put seriously under the microscope - starting with D Bailey's horrible performance thus far.

first of all seriously no biest but umpires WTF?

cheney tackle on monfries? plus moloney tackle on prismall in first quarter how can they possibly be given high also moloney holding the balll second qrt 7 min?! just a few of many!

its time for jeff giechen to step down the umpiring has been horrible all season!

jack watts ... looks not so great i know his young but every melbourne supporter knows this! do we think he will be great or hope he will be great?

we have been at the bottom for 2 years... almost 3 when are we going to improve ? im sick of losing i dont care wat draft picks we get!

what do we have to look forward to? when willl we start winning?

dont be so impatient.

FFS wait till the end of next year and if we have not improved then we should get a new coach, by improved i dont mean play finals but just show more fluent ball movement, skills be better, bodies be stronger, structure etc

i really think we need a new forward coach and we need a new midfield coach

i reckon we should try and get garry lyon as our forward coach and todd viney as our mids coach

Nice, Jaded, nice.

I think that the whole generation-judging thing is just simplistic meaningless bloody garbage.

At 21 I did not understand 'process'. At 33 I'm getting the idea. What do you blame that on - my IQ, my generation, my upbringing the developmental process - what?

Social commentators are the sound of one hand typing.

To all the whingers who say "You can't criticise Bailey, McLean, Watts, etc on this site" - you are kidding yourselves.

You can say what you like, but you just don't like the fact that the smarter posters on 'Land tell you to back up your crap with facts or reasonable arguments and you just cannot do it.

To this end:

Watts is 18. Even tougher with the way we kick to our forwards.

Bailey is a 'list manager' at this stage of his career; his coaching starts when we aren't easily the worst group of players (for various reasons: age, experience, injury, skills, or just poor performers) in the AFL.

McLean will be better with a pre-season in 2010. He's been brave this year, but his kicking has been very disappointing. Averaging 7 clearances a game in the last 4 games is fantastic.

Say what you like, but be prepared to back it up with an argument...

thanks mate, i agree totally, u cant touch JW, Bailey and god forbid Brock on this site. does my head in, thought this was a forum to express your views.

good point powell

I agree with you blokes! Everybody should be able to express their thoughts and sometimes the truth hurts......

Bailey out.... and he can take some of the dead wood with him! The entire time Bailey has been here he has been banging the "work harder" drum. He has clearly proven that hard work alone will not win you games. There also needs to be a game plan and desire to play for the coach which breads confidence. Bailey provides none of this, it is clear that the players don't know the system and the desire to put in 4qtrs is lacking. It's no coincidence that we tend to have poor 3rd qtrs. Bailey is so uninspiring I would fall asleep in his halftime talk!

We need somebody that will bring a little bit of passion to the side and a game plan that fits our playing group. I can put up with young blokes getting beat every week, but it pains me to see a lack of improvement in our game plan and the dropping of heads from even our senior players. This has to be the coach's responsibility. I'm all for a long term plan but lets make sure we have the right man for the job in the first place. The club obviously hired Bailey based on finances, not on coaching ability. Until we wake up to this fact, nothing will change (I would like to be proven wrong!!) and I look forward to the same old excuses next week......

Playing an offensive threat in Davey out of position as the invogue quarter-back role - super outcome that one.

Have you only watched one match this year?

Not only was Davey still alright last night, but his move to half-back has seen him reach form that has some talking of an All-Australian berth. He is getting a lot more of the ball than he did last year in the forward line, and we're making the most of his wonderful kicking ability.

When is the footy club going to cut its losses. Bailey has backed the wrong donkeys on-field and among his coaching staff and results are reflecting this.

He hasn't backed the 'wrong donkeys', he's backed the only players he's got. He's given players like Bell, Newton, Dunn etc. plenty of matches to prove themselves, and they haven't, so we've got a heck of a lot of youth in at the moment.

I thought last night's game was the line in sand moment for a team that has been 'haunted' by our previous performance against the pies...I was there and was disappointed! G Lyon is on the money...the MFC need to be put seriously under the microscope - starting with D Bailey's horrible performance thus far.

Bailey's true test will come next year. If we can't get 8-10 wins next year his chances of coaching in 2011 will be shot.

I agree with you blokes! Everybody should be able to express their thoughts and sometimes the truth hurts......

Bailey out.... and he can take some of the dead wood with him! The entire time Bailey has been here he has been banging the "work harder" drum. He has clearly proven that hard work alone will not win you games. There also needs to be a game plan and desire to play for the coach which breads confidence. Bailey provides none of this, it is clear that the players don't know the system and the desire to put in 4qtrs is lacking. It's no coincidence that we tend to have poor 3rd qtrs. Bailey is so uninspiring I would fall asleep in his halftime talk!

We need somebody that will bring a little bit of passion to the side and a game plan that fits our playing group. I can put up with young blokes getting beat every week, but it pains me to see a lack of improvement in our game plan and the dropping of heads from even our senior players. This has to be the coach's responsibility. I'm all for a long term plan but lets make sure we have the right man for the job in the first place. The club obviously hired Bailey based on finances, not on coaching ability. Until we wake up to this fact, nothing will change (I would like to be proven wrong!!) and I look forward to the same old excuses next week......

I smell a troll...

Why is it a wonder when the worst team in the AFL loses games and looks awful at times?

I don't know whether Bailey can coach, he hasn't had the cattle to show us.

He's developing the cattle and hopefully next year will provide steeper improvement, but do NOT tell me that we haven't shown more this year than last. I went to about 15 games last year and there is little comparison, other than wins and losses.

And that 'dead wood' you are refering to? How is that Bailey's fault? Who, of the last two drafts, are dead wood?

Not only was Davey still alright last night, but his move to half-back has seen him reach form that has some talking of an All-Australian berth. He is getting a lot more of the ball than he did last year in the forward line, and we're making the most of his wonderful kicking ability.

It is very predictable though having Davey run behind to receive the amount of handball he does as the designated kicker. It's almost becoming a farce because it's slowing down play. Geelong move the ball quicker than any other team. Imagine them relying on a designated kicker as much as we do. How much would it kill their instinct and slow them down ? And yes, I know we're not Geelong, but the "give it to Davey at all costs" plan is at its used by date already, imo.

Time for a bit of a plan B.