Give Juice a Chance

[w00dy 146]

I really think it's important that we give Juice as many games as we can in the 2nd half of the season.

Many, actually most have written him off. I really believe he's going to prove you all wrong.

Here's a comparison I think is worth looking at for Juice... Now I'm not saying Juice is going to be as good as the player I'm comparing him with, but I think it's worth discussion...

Michael Newton Vs Kurt Tippett

How many of you would trade Juice for Tippett? I'd say everyone would, in a heartbeat. The first thing that really surprised me was that Tippett is only 2 weeks younger than Juice, however he was drafted a year later than Juice was. I gather we took Juice as a bottom aged player?

Here are some stats for season averages for the two players:

Newton:

2007: 10 games - 10.3 disposals, 4.1 Marks, 1.4 goals, 1.6 tackles

2008: 6 games - 8.5 disposals, 4.5 Marks, 1.5 goals, 1.7 tackles

2009: 2 games - 9.0 disposals, 3.5 marks, 1.0 goals, 4.0 tackles

Tippett

2008: 19 games - 7.1 disposals, 2.3 marks, 0.9 goals, 1.7 tackles

2009: 11 games - 10.6 disposals, 3.6 marks, 1.7 goals, 3.1 tackles

The point I want to make is, both are key forwards, both are about the same age, but both have tread quite different paths. Newton has been given limited opportunities, only 16 games in 2 seasons where we were absolutely appalling, and put up reasonable numbers for a young forward in a poor side.

Whilst Tippett has been given lots of games in the AFL to develop. He almost played the entire season last year. Even though his numbers are less impressive than what Juice managed to do in 6 games, in a far lesser side. Now Tippett has some confidence, is improving on his footy, as he showed last weekend with his bag of 7...

This season with Newton, we bring him in, he looks promising as a forward target. He misses some easy shots on goal, on an extremely difficult day for forwards, when most other forwards couldn't get the ball in their hands, and he gets dropped. He was made the scapegoat for that game, and unfairly treated in my opinion. I don't see what we have to lose by playing him, we all know he has the talent. He has improved the defensive side of his game, we've seen this at VFL level and at AFL level (4 tackles per game in 09)...

Time to bring in Juice, and let him play the rest of the season. Unfortunately, his confidence is shot in front of goal, dropping him after Adelaide wouldn't have helped at all in this regard. I really hope he's given ample opportunity to get that confidence back for the Demons.

I like Bails, and I think he's doing a good job overall, but I think this is one area he's dropped the ball in. Juice is contracted for next year, so perhaps they still have a long term plan for him, but I think he's been deserved of more games personally.

[Swampfox 190]

Juice Newton will be remembered for one mark

Just like John Clennet

After Jurrah joins Watts the door will close on Newtons short career

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Until he starts kicking goals at VFL level then he shouldn't get a game. ATM he should be delisted at year's end even though he is contracted for next year.

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

When he performs as well as Bennell, Jurrah, Jetta and Valenti at VFL level, then he might get a game in the seniors.

While he continues to do nothing worthy of promotion, he can stay where he is.

Meanwhile Watts, Jurrah and others will be filling the spots that were made available to him before. He didn't grasp the opportunity at senior level and now he is doing the same at VFL level.

[w00dy 146]

When he performs as well as Bennell, Jurrah, Jetta and Valenti at VFL level, then he might get a game in the seniors.

I'd argue his form line would be equal or better of all those players, with Jurrah bagging 4 goals today, surpassing him... But unlike LJ, we know Juice is physically ready for the AFL. LJ hasn't had anywhere near the preperation Juice has. If i were picking the team next week, I'd have them both in.

Here is his form line for Casey since he was dropped... I'd say without kicking massive bags week after week, that's pretty good form for a key forward... 27 tackles in 5 games...

Point is he's in good form, and deserves consecutive games for Melbourne.

Casey Scorpions v Werribee Tigers

Newton: Kicks 14, Handballs 6, Marks 8, Tackles 9, Assists 14, Goals 2

Casey Scorpions v Geelong,

Kicks 14, Handballs 5, Marks 9, Tackles 5, Goals 3

North Ballarat v Casey Scorpions

Kicks 11, Handballs 4, Marks 6, Tackles 6, Assists 9, Goals 1 (kicked 1.4)

Casey Scorpions v Box Hill Hawks

Kicks 6, Handballs 2, Marks 2, Tackles 1, Assists 2, Goals 2

Coburg Tigers v Casey Scorpions

Kicks 10, Handballs 2, Marks 5, Tackles 6, Assists 8, Goals 5 (kicked 5.3, two out on the full)

[Matt Demon 1,418]

Until he starts kicking goals at VFL level then he shouldn't get a game. ATM he should be delisted at year's end even though he is contracted for next year.

Until he learns not to go to ground every time he goes for a mark he will not and should not get a game. Does he not realise when he falls over he's out of the contest! He did this SO many times today. He is an ok VFL footballer and that's it.

[Real Demon 232]

I'm not generally one to be critical of MFC players, but on Newton I'll make an exception.............I don't think he's going to make it!

[rpfc 28,409]

He has a contract for next year so he will get his chances.

He may get a few games toward the end of the year but the one thing that I want to see is him make a statement with his body.

I want to see him in February with a cut physique, something that he does not have. From this I question his commitment to getting the best out of himself.

Bate is bigger than him in the chest and arms and he spent his first few years in the midfield.

It's an indictment really.

[Freak 100]

thats silly rpfc. james mcdonald isnt ripped or anything either yet no1 questions his commitment.

And Newton has been the best melbourne listed player at casey over the whole season., bar nobody. Ive been to every game so have more idea than people who suggest that any other player has been better.

Of course he deserves a chance. He has shown that he can play better at afl level than miller can.

[Hannabal 4]

Michael Newton Vs Kurt Tippett

Here are some stats for season averages for the two players:

Tippett is a young 201cm ruckman that plays forward. You're not comparing like with like.

Newton is an immature slowish young tall with ability, who's not great below his knees. Will be a good VFL player - once he gaisn more confidence.

[btdemon 482]

Why would we consider Juice atm when he is not kicking goals at VFL level. Jurrah has kicked 12 in 3 weeks. Jurrah will be something special. Let's put him in. Jurrah and Watts should play as many games as is practical this year. Juice must dominate at VFL level before he gets back. Somehow I don't see this happening because I just don't think Juice has got it. I hope that he proves me wrong. We are desperate for a tall, physical, marking forward. I don't see why we couldn't play out the year with this fwd line. Adjustments need to made when form drops, or VCE exams get in the way. Aussie could come in when ready as well as Jetta. Try Martin up there again also. I'd also like to see Hughes given a chance.

Maric, Robbo, Green

Watts, Miller, Jurrah

Also take into account that Sylvia has been rotating from midfield to half forward.

[btdemon 482]

Robbo is Full fwd. Miller is CHF

[jacey 333]

Michael Newton Vs Kurt Tippett

I've been pretty high on Kurt Tippett for 2 years. Wanted to trade for him for 2 years but now I'm glad we didn't.

GC will/should make a big play for him.

I would say they both aren't the best shots for goal but

Kurt Tippett is strong, physical, loves the contested stuff, can fly for a mark, take a mark one on one when kicked on his head and can ruck.

Newton can fly for a mark.

There is a reason why one is playing AFL and one isn't.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

2¢...

Will never have a sustained, significant impact at AFL-level. Pinch-hitter at best.

Not capable of kicking 40 to 50 goals in an AFL season.

Does not have enough other qualities to be in the side to compensate for that.

Will flatter to deceive as long as he is given chances.

[rpfc 28,409]

thats silly rpfc. james mcdonald isnt ripped or anything either yet no1 questions his commitment.

And Newton has been the best melbourne listed player at casey over the whole season., bar nobody. Ive been to every game so have more idea than people who suggest that any other player has been better.

Of course he deserves a chance. He has shown that he can play better at afl level than miller can.

Why mention a midfielder like McDonald?

I sincerely hope you would want your key forwards to be bigger and stronger than your midfielders...

If he wants Miller's position, he should copy Miller's physique.

He has had 4 or 5 pre-seasons to get his body ready and hasn't done the work.

[Jarka 767]

I agree that we have to play Newton, the pp pick is just far too important to miss out on.

[Jaded No More 68,913]

I've seen Juice play the last two weeks, live yesterday, and he does not deserve a game based on what he showed.

He just has no idea where to go, how to position himself and apart from being a very good mark, he has no other tools at this disposal to make him a dangerous player at AFL level.

That he pretty much refuses to take a shot inside 50m, even at this level, is terrible.

Fisher, who is a horrendous kick for goal, took his chances yesterday and kicked 6. That is what Juice should do if he wants to push for selection.

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

I'd argue his form line would be equal or better of all those players, with Jurrah bagging 4 goals today, surpassing him... But unlike LJ, we know Juice is physically ready for the AFL. LJ hasn't had anywhere near the preperation Juice has. If i were picking the team next week, I'd have them both in.

Here is his form line for Casey since he was dropped... I'd say without kicking massive bags week after week, that's pretty good form for a key forward... 27 tackles in 5 games...

Point is he's in good form, and deserves consecutive games for Melbourne.

Sorry but Newton is NOT in good form. 27 tackles? well how about getting 27 possessions instead?

How about kicking a goal from the goal square instead of show-boating? Not once yesterday but twice.

His performance yesterday was nothing short of appalling, and without a gift goal when he slacked off behind play, not chasing his man, yet again, he would have had nothing.

Point is that with Watts, Jurrah and Miller, Robertson playing in the forward line there is no place left.

He had his chance for the whole of last season, when Neitz and Robertson were injured.....showed nothing.

He was given more chances until Robertson returned this year....showed nothing.

If he wants to play seniors then kick some goals.

[Jaded No More 68,913]

How about kicking a goal from the goal square instead of show-boating? Not once yesterday but twice.

After he missed that goal while kicking across the body instead of just kicking straight through, my friend turned to me and said "who the hell is that idiot?". Summed up my feelings pretty well.

He sort of gravitates between no confidence and too much confidence. Quite possibly the strangest footballer I have come across mentally.

[e25 5]

I agree that we have to play Newton, the pp pick is just far too important to miss out on.

SNAP!

My thoughts exactly.

[mo64 5,874]

Sorry but Newton is NOT in good form. 27 tackles? well how about getting 27 possessions instead?

How about kicking a goal from the goal square instead of show-boating? Not once yesterday but twice.

His performance yesterday was nothing short of appalling, and without a gift goal when he slacked off behind play, not chasing his man, yet again, he would have had nothing.

Point is that with Watts, Jurrah and Miller, Robertson playing in the forward line there is no place left.

He had his chance for the whole of last season, when Neitz and Robertson were injured.....showed nothing.

He was given more chances until Robertson returned this year....showed nothing.

If he wants to play seniors then kick some goals.

If you apply the same standards, Miller shouldn't have a guaranteed spot in the seniors as you suggest.

You're overly critical of Newton. He missed a substantial part of last season through innjury, and to suggest that he showed nothing in the meagre 2 senior games he has been given this season, is unfair.

I'm not sure if Newton will make at AFL level, but we'll never know unless the coaching dept. show some confidence in him, and give him an extended run in the seniors.

[w00dy 146]

Sorry but Newton is NOT in good form. 27 tackles? well how about getting 27 possessions instead?

He was given more chances until Robertson returned this year....showed nothing.

so you expect a full forward to get 27 posessions a game? he's been averaging 15 the last 5 games, and getting up to 20 posies. Yes his kicking for goal isn't great, but we've seen a lot of great players have problems in front of the big sticks. That alone shouldn't exclude him from playing for Melbourne.

And he wasn't given many chances, he was given 2 games, and our forward line looked far more dangerous with him in it. On a shocking night for forwards, in a shocking game of football, he had 3 shots on goal. More than any other player on the ground. He should've kicked 2.1, he kicked 0.3, laid 4 tackles, and he got dropped. Miller and Bate did nothing that game either, but Juice was the scapegoat.

I think we're all expecting too much from Robbo, he was fantastic when playing next to Neitz, and he had games were he kicked bags holding down full forward on his own, but at his age, with where the team is at, I don't think he's up to it at full forward, and I can't see the club getting anything positive out of playing him at full forward. Put Juice at full forward, Robbo in the pocket.

[w00dy 146]

I've been pretty high on Kurt Tippett for 2 years. Wanted to trade for him for 2 years but now I'm glad we didn't.

GC will/should make a big play for him.

I would say they both aren't the best shots for goal but

Kurt Tippett is strong, physical, loves the contested stuff, can fly for a mark, take a mark one on one when kicked on his head and can ruck.

Newton can fly for a mark.

There is a reason why one is playing AFL and one isn't.

I agree they're different players. But it would be fair to say Tippett has benefited from the exteneded time playing for Adelaide, his footy has developed.

The point being that although they same age, Juice hasn't been afforded the same treatment, and I think he'd be a better player if he were. What do we really have to lose?

[Trisul 664]

Have just about given up tryig to engage Melbourne people re Juice. Most seem much happier bagging him for a league wide annual achievement and an uncertain mindset than pondering how his injuries and the opportunities presented might have limited his ability to advance and settle. Never mind he out-stats Miller, he doesn't have his physique. He falls to ground too much, but gets up quicker than Robbo. His defensive pressure has boomed, but tackles don't count. If only people had been so certain about Sylvia - we could have delisted him already.

[Deano74 156]

Juice has had ample chances to show something and i suspect he has just about done his dash.

He may have only one more chance if his VFL form warrants and Kicking 2 goals aint enough.

Jurrah has kicked four in the last few weeks and is already looking more impressive.

The simple fact in AFL once your in, you need to take your chances. If you go in and out of the side your days are numbered.

Ie> Newton, Dunn, Miller.

Look at Grimes take his chance and run with it.

Maybe we should trade for McGuire (Saints) who is 25 i think and been playing well but cant break back into the Saints.