Final Team Selection

[H_T 3,043]

This game makes me nervous!

Its simple, if we win over there its going to dim our chances of winning of getting a flag. No more than 4 wins. If we don't get picks 1 and 2 we will not win a flag.

You guys need to get away and relax.

Exponents of the "heaps of early draft picks = premiership" argument seem to have a very simplistic view of list management, and don't seem to take any other factor (e.g. the importance of making shrewd choices with mid to late draft picks, the importance of building the confidence and morale of a young list, etc) into account.

Some people are getting stupidly carried away about this priority pick. Our list is going to have no shortage of early draft picks after this season. I can understand why people want to win four or less games, and yes, it would be frustrating to finish with exactly five wins and miss out on the PP, but FFS, the idea that somehow our list is doomed if we win this game (or, for that matter, if we win more than four this year) is paranoid hyperbole.

Couldn't agree more.

With regard to the start of your post - "exponents of heaps of early draft picks = Premiership argument" (simplistic view), you are correct. Ie. Geelong and Sydney buck that trend.

I will add to that, in that you could have the best picks in the world, although if you haven't got the best resources in coaching and management at your disposal, in order to create the right environment and team culture for those picks to achieve the best possible outcome - that is the best team - you won't win a Premiership.

[titan_uranus 24,973]

what you say is essentially coorect however you are overlooking the all but "last petrol for..." scenario building at seasons end. Not only last time to fill up inthis manner but given the 'premium' qulaity of whats on offer for 1 and 2 it would be be as irresponsible to overlook this moment as it is to rely overly on the simplistic view that just ecause you have early picks you get a premiership. Its really about getting the est choices availale at any time and developing them. AT seasons end there are two guns on offer..i WANT THEM BOTH !!

Two sheds was responding to people like Digga who make ridiculous claims like this:

Its simple, if we win over there its going to dim our chances of winning of getting a flag. No more than 4 wins. If we don't get picks 1 and 2 we will not win a flag.

It's stupid and OTT to suggest that our chances of rebuilding will be shot if we don't get picks 1 and 2. Yes, it would help, but two sheds rightly pointed out that it isn't the be all and end all of this club.

[Hannabal 4]

To me there seems to be two distinct camps - there's the "we're doomed if we win more than 4" group and the "one top draft pick won't win us a flag" exponents.

I'm not sure I agree with either, but I certainly have more sympathy with the former. The facts are one player can make a difference to us potentially winning a flag. Those that dismiss such a notion are far too flippant. West Coast wouldn't have won a flag without Judd (pick 3) and Hawthorn wouldn't have won a flag without Franklin (top 5). Buddy didn't star on the day, but they wouldn't have made a GF without this 100+ goal freak.

It's stars that win you premierships and the best chance to draft a star is at the pointy end of the draft. There will always be those that point to Geelong and their lack of top picks, but they've been blessed with amazing Father/Sons.

Also, there's no hard and fast formula to win a flag, but in a competition that is far from a level playing field due to club finances and a skewed draw I want my club to have the best chance possible to win a flag before I fall off the perch in 40 years. And they're not going to get any easier to win with more teams in the competition.

So yes, I don't want to win more than 4 games because the system tells me that we're inhibiting the only thing I care about if we do - a flag. Sure, it doesn't make it impossible, but it effects our chances. Just as an analogy; if I saw Scully or Butcher starring for another club in 4 years time and knew that they could have been at my club save for one or two meaningless victories I'll spew. Now if someone wants to [censored] on about "victories not being meaningless due to the culture being developed within a young playing group etc" then go ahead and type away. One or two more victories in the scheme of things won't matter one iota.

Give me a goal to goal line of:

Martin

Frawley

Scully

Watts

Butcher

and I'll show you a top 4 team in 5 years. What do you reckon the Dogs would give to get a Watts or Butcher on their list ? Or more to the point a Riewoldt or Roughead ?

But we must make sure that we have the infrastructure to properly develop our young talent. There's no doubt that we've failed at this in the past.

[True Believer 1]

Spot on. I don't expect PJ to take the honours but I do expect him to give his best all game. If he can play 100 mins of competitive football this week then maybe he has a place in the team next year.

Oh, and Grimes in.

Newton ( best on ground at casey last week ) SHOULD BE IN...as back up to Robbo.

[LeBron James 41]

100% agree Hannabal.

That's why i'm firmly in the no more then 4 camp.

It's scary to think that after this year our list could be absolutely set for a premiership, and it's time to just enjoy the ride.

2012 Melbourne Premiership Team

FB: Petterd; Martin; Rivers

HB: Garland; Frawley; Grimes

C: Morton; Moloney; Davey

HF: Bate; Watts; Sylvia

FF: Maric; Butcher; Wonaeamirri

R: Johnson; Scully; McLean

Int: Jones; Spencer; Warnock; Blease

EMG: Strauss; Buckley; Jurrah

[jacey 333]

We hardly won in Perth when we were good, we certainly won't win now we're crap.

A team that has studs like Cox and Kerr should beat Melbourne. Surely?

If only we could give opposition teams a 40 pt head start so I'm not so conflicted every week.

We need top end talent, no question about it.

[Pates 9,660]

I pretty happy with that IC bench, given what we've got available. Maric had a shocker last week, i just hope he got the jitters for finally making the cut, there have been some big wraps on him so i hope he can show something this week.

Good to see Grimes back (for my dreamteam as well!)

[MelbournePassion 7]

To me there seems to be two distinct camps - there's the "we're doomed if we win more than 4" group and the "one top draft pick won't win us a flag" exponents.

I'm not sure I agree with either, but I certainly have more sympathy with the former. The facts are one player can make a difference to us potentially winning a flag. Those that dismiss such a notion are far too flippant. West Coast wouldn't have won a flag without Judd (pick 3) and Hawthorn wouldn't have won a flag without Franklin (top 5). Buddy didn't star on the day, but they wouldn't have made a GF without this 100+ goal freak.

It's stars that win you premierships and the best chance to draft a star is at the pointy end of the draft. There will always be those that point to Geelong and their lack of top picks, but they've been blessed with amazing Father/Sons.

Also, there's no hard and fast formula to win a flag, but in a competition that is far from a level playing field due to club finances and a skewed draw I want my club to have the best chance possible to win a flag before I fall off the perch in 40 years. And they're not going to get any easier to win with more teams in the competition.

So yes, I don't want to win more than 4 games because the system tells me that we're inhibiting the only thing I care about if we do - a flag. Sure, it doesn't make it impossible, but it effects our chances. Just as an analogy; if I saw Scully or Butcher starring for another club in 4 years time and knew that they could have been at my club save for one or two meaningless victories I'll spew. Now if someone wants to [censored] on about "victories not being meaningless due to the culture being developed within a young playing group etc" then go ahead and type away. One or two more victories in the scheme of things won't matter one iota.

Give me a goal to goal line of:

Martin

Frawley

Scully

Watts

Butcher

and I'll show you a top 4 team in 5 years. What do you reckon the Dogs would give to get a Watts or Butcher on their list ? Or more to the point a Riewoldt or Roughead ?

But we must make sure that we have the infrastructure to properly develop our young talent. There's no doubt that we've failed at this in the past.

Very correct. But I hate wanting to lose. It`s just not right. Every football club around the land goes into a game wanting to win. And if you don`t win then its disappointing. I Want to get picks 1 and 2 but I also want a desire to win attiude from our future players. I would hate to tank, but I know we can`t afford to win 5 games this year. Its a hard one. Winning is the beauty of our game. The best outcome would be to win 4 games, see big improvements from individuals to get close in some games (for eg 5-10 points) and also respectable losses like 10-30, to win QB and then win Round 14,Round 20 against WCE and Freo.

[Freak 100]

With contested marking now pretty much gone from todays game, does anyone think butcher might slide?

[Carn dees 108]

With contested marking now pretty much gone from todays game, does anyone think butcher might slide?

Nah probly not considering the depth of talent in this years draft, if he did it wouldnt be too far.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Give me a goal to goal line of:

Martin

Frawley

Scully

Watts

Butcher

and I'll show you a top 4 team in 5 years. What do you reckon the Dogs would give to get a Watts or Butcher on their list ? Or more to the point a Riewoldt or Roughead ?

This is the crux of the matter. We're irrelevant because we've had 1 or 2 serious tilts at the flag in 45 years, and this future team will offer us a better shot at the flag than the majority of teams.

I also think people are too worried about winning 5 games. The fact that we don't have a forward line will guarantee we struggle in every single outing, and I can't see us winning 5 with Miller, Bate, Sylvia, Robertson as our main goal kickers, plus all the B players coming in and out (Newton, Wonna, Jetta)

[Hannabal 4]

With contested marking now pretty much gone from todays game, does anyone think butcher might slide?

Ask Rodney Eade.

[titan_uranus 24,973]

Give me a goal to goal line of:

Martin

Frawley

Scully

Watts

Butcher

and I'll show you a top 4 team in 5 years.

There's more to it than just that (though it would be a pretty decent start). For starters, there's the other 17 players. Ruck? Midfield support? Then there's the game plan.

You're right in that getting Butcher and Scully to the club would improve our chances of success over the next 5 years. But I completely disagree with those who claim that if we don't get those two this year, we will have no chance at all.

2012 Melbourne Premiership Team

FB: Petterd; Martin; Rivers

HB: Garland; Frawley; Grimes

C: Morton; Moloney; Davey

HF: Bate; Watts; Sylvia

FF: Maric; Butcher; Wonaeamirri

R: Johnson; Scully; McLean

Int: Jones; Spencer; Warnock; Blease

EMG: Strauss; Buckley; Jurrah

Can't see that happening M2W. I wouldn't rule out a Spencer/Meesen ruck combination by 2012.

[Carn dees 108]

100% agree Hannabal.

That's why i'm firmly in the no more then 4 camp.

It's scary to think that after this year our list could be absolutely set for a premiership, and it's time to just enjoy the ride.

2012 Melbourne Premiership Team

FB: Petterd; Martin; Rivers

HB: Garland; Frawley; Grimes

C: Morton; Moloney; Davey

HF: Bate; Watts; Sylvia

FF: Maric; Butcher; Wonaeamirri

R: Johnson; Scully; McLean

Int: Jones; Spencer; Warnock; Blease

EMG: Strauss; Buckley; Jurrah

Love it. and the fact that you cant squeeze bennell in or strauss im looking forward to years ahead.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

100% agree Hannabal.

That's why i'm firmly in the no more then 4 camp.

It's scary to think that after this year our list could be absolutely set for a premiership, and it's time to just enjoy the ride.

2012 Melbourne Premiership Team

FB: Petterd; Martin; Rivers

HB: Garland; Frawley; Grimes

C: Morton; Moloney; Davey

HF: Bate; Watts; Sylvia

FF: Maric; Butcher; Wonaeamirri

R: Johnson; Scully; McLean

Int: Jones; Spencer; Warnock; Blease

EMG: Strauss; Buckley; Jurrah

No Cheney, Jetta or Bennell in our Premiership team?

And I think your taking a huge punt by already including Butcher and Scully.

I still think Green will be around in 2012.

[Late Draft Pick 48]

Er, our first game against Carlton in 2007 was at the MCG in round 14 and the half time margin was three points. Don't know why you would have turned the TV off at that stage.

And Neale Daniher wasn't even coaching - his last game was the previous week against Essendon.

Not sure which game you're recalling, but it's not our first game against Carlton in 2007.

Er, so much for my memory. That's one story I won't tell again.

[Guest Digga]

For people to try and attempt to name the side for 2012 or any year other than now is crazy. Nobody will even get close, and who knows what is going to happen with picks this year and when GC come in.

[Cards13 9,117]

Knee injury

Thanks. Grimes apparently got 16 possessions last weekend which surprised me (as well as pleased me) as i mainly saw him (on the TV) sitting on the bench.

He did get about 26 in that practice match with the Swans.

It's funny you say MFC will pay for it leaving Newton out. MFC will pay heavily for it if they win this game,

not that I won't want to see a competitive showing. But if we beat them over there, we'll beat them over here later in the season.

And that will leave only one more win allowed for the season if we are interested in strengthening the team with an additional

very good footballer. This is one of those weeks that I just want to game to be over with. It will bring WCE up to 3 wins.

We aren't going to win the Premiership this year.

I mentioned it on Sunday but sat with Grimey's sister during the Geelong game and she said Bails was none to impressed German did not play Grimes enough during the Casey game so think he might still be a touch under done. Reading todays papers the club was really impressed with his work during the preseason saying he was one of our best and will be one of the corner stones of our future so they are just trying to get him in for game time, wouldn't expect to much for a few weeks from him.

Also happy to see maric staying in for the now manditory 4 weeks Bails likes to play players.

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

Great to see Grimesy selected. The fact that they are prepared to take him on the long flight to Perth, suggests to me that they have a fair degree of confidence that his back is holding up.