No. Actually my brother and I went and saw Juice quite a bit during his days at Sandy. The kid has all the gifts a player needs to play at the highest level, and then some. Good kick, strong lead, huge leap, sticky hands, he likes the rough stuff and to chase, no matter what people say... His problem is, and has always and ONLY ever been in the head. It's definitely his attitude that is lacking. Lst week is a good example. Kick straight and you have a bag of 6. "Talentless" players don't kick 6 goals, not in this league. Put Miller's heart in Juice's body, and you'd have a player. Probably a player who wouldn't have gone as late in the draft as he did...

What I cling to hope for, with Juice, is that basically he grows up. I've seen a bunch of kids in all different walks of life look like they're going to waste their talent, and then, at the right time, they meet a mentor or father figure who turns them around and they take a sudden leap in their abilities, on whatever field the mentor guides them in. Often it's not a comfortable change, and I have a suspicion if Juice pulls his finger out it'll take a BIG whack over the back of the skull... but I believe it can be done. I first thought Bailey is the man, but then maybe he needs a leader on the field...

Just so you know, I don't hold out HUGE hope that he'll become a good player. Just that he'll earn a spot on the list until someone better comes along, and at best gain some trade value. It's not a grand ideal, and seems like accepting mediocrity, but I am just being realistic about what we can get given the time invested. Had we had a decent list Juice would be long gone. We are bereft of good KP forwards and I get the feeling on some level he's always known this. When we start coming good, if he doesn't continue to improve, he'll be gone, and it's no great loss. Trying a fourth round pick that's a KP player over the space of a few years is how the system works. No reason to cry over spilt milk. They can't ALL be Wayne Carey.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on Newton also. Hopeful that he can make the most of his obvious talents. If he does, MFC will be the better for it. Big, key forwards that can jump, kick and mark like he can will get more chances than they may deserve because of the upside. I think/hope that once his confidence improves, his work ethic will also imrpove.

Let's get something straight on his age. There have been people saying "he's nearly 30" and other such inaccuracies. He's 27. He was born on December 31, 1981. He's got at least 5 top years left in him.

I would only do it if it meant we could get rid of some of the dead wood on our list... If we could get him for say pick 17/18 plus Sylvia and one or two others, you'd have to seriously think about it.

I would only do it if it meant we could get rid of some of the dead wood on our list... If we could get him for say pick 17/18 plus Sylvia and one or two others, you'd have to seriously think about it.

So you think Freo would gladly take a showbag of our deadwood from a bottom rung club plus pick 17 to take their captain, marquee player and probably greatest ever player in their history??

Unbelievable.

Take Pavlich? NO.

He's contracted until the end of 2010; we can't afford his salary if he does switch not to mention a shared payout from his current contract; we can't afford to give up early draft picks and bringing in a star at this stage is pie-in-the-sky stuff when it comes to our developing list management and genuine crack at the flag. Three years down the track it might be a different story. Right now, it adds up all wrong.

Apart from that, it simply won't happen.

No. Actually my brother and I went and saw Juice quite a bit during his days at Sandy. The kid has all the gifts a player needs to play at the highest level, and then some. Good kick, strong lead, huge leap, sticky hands, he likes the rough stuff and to chase, no matter what people say... His problem is, and has always and ONLY ever been in the head. It's definitely his attitude that is lacking. Lst week is a good example. Kick straight and you have a bag of 6. "Talentless" players don't kick 6 goals, not in this league. Put Miller's heart in Juice's body, and you'd have a player. Probably a player who wouldn't have gone as late in the draft as he did...

What I cling to hope for, with Juice, is that basically he grows up. I've seen a bunch of kids in all different walks of life look like they're going to waste their talent, and then, at the right time, they meet a mentor or father figure who turns them around and they take a sudden leap in their abilities, on whatever field the mentor guides them in. Often it's not a comfortable change, and I have a suspicion if Juice pulls his finger out it'll take a BIG whack over the back of the skull... but I believe it can be done. I first thought Bailey is the man, but then maybe he needs a leader on the field...

Well, Dappa. Spot on, a very articulate effort, IMO. Agree with all of that.

He'll go to Carlton because there's no salary cap effective down there. And he could figure in their next flag tilt.

Sydney Swans could also be a fit.

So you think Freo would gladly take a showbag of our deadwood from a bottom rung club plus pick 17 to take their captain, marquee player and probably greatest ever player in their history??

Unbelievable.

That was kind of the point - for what we'd be prepared to give, they would never accept.

That was kind of the point - for what we'd be prepared to give, they would never accept.

You said MFC should seriously consider it. Consider it, MFC should sign up in a heartbeat. If MFC were serious about Pavlich they know that they would have to give up picks big time not trash and treasure stuff.

Sydney Swans could also be a fit.

What could the Swans offer Freo that they would seriously take? Assume they get pick 10 this year..... What else do they have?

You said MFC should seriously consider it. Consider it, MFC should sign up in a heartbeat. If MFC were serious about Pavlich they know that they would have to give up picks big time not trash and treasure stuff.

Then again, it is Freo we're talking about :D

Traded Away From Freo

Matthew Lloyd (compensation pick)

Jeff Farmer

Andrew Mcleod

Peter Bell

James Clement

Jeff White

Brodie Holland

Pick 8 and Paul Medhurst for Chris Tarrant

Pick One for Trent Croad and Luke Mcpharlin, two years later trading Croad back for pick 10

Jess Sinclair and picks 6, 8 and 37 to get Bell back.

Winston Abraham

On the upside they traded Kingsley Hunter, on the downside they selected him in the first place.

Heath Black

Adam Mcphee

Leigh Brown

Troy Simmonds

David Wirrpanda (Compensation pick)

Steven King (Compensation pick)

Freo trading for players

Phil Gilbert for Jeff Farmer

Chris Groom for Andrew Mcleod

Tony Delaney for pick 4

Des Headland for Mcphee and picks 3 and 19

Kepler Bradley

Mark Johnson (a year before he retired).

Sorry, any excuse you know

Then again, it is Freo we're talking about :D

Jess Sinclair and picks 6, 8 and 37 to get Bell back.

Whoa, I didn't know that.

Melbourne is 2 - 3 years from a finals appearance so whats the point in a nearly retired Pavlich

Collingwood are a classic example of a consistent finalist with nothing to show for it

If the MFC is to have a crack at a flag it needs to build with the players it is already developing

Its the same scenario as 1952 and we all know how that turned out

Both Freo and Richmond are MILES behind the MFC in the devopment of its player base

Wallace and previous coaches at Richmond along with Harvey at Freo have only themselves to blame when it comes to

making hard decisons on their lists

The only thing Bailey has yet to prove is his ability to become a good match day coach and we will only know that when

the calfs become cattle

Its the same scenario as 1952 and we all know how that turned out

No. Enlighten me....

No way would I take him if I were Melbourne, to old for where Melbourne's going. Expect to see Pavlich play for Freo next year also but then become the first captain of Gold Coast.

By the way if you ask me Gold Coast should name themselves the Rollers.

What could the Swans offer Freo that they would seriously take? Assume they get pick 10 this year..... What else do they have?

I have no idea what they'd give, hadn't bothered nor could be bothered to analyse the swans other than casting an eye toward the fairly obvious.

the little thinking went like, - Hall is near the end, Roos like to recruit mature bodied experienced players, I think he fits their style of recruiting, & style playing wise.

IMO, it would be out of Bulldogs or Geelong as perfect fits for Pavlich, assuming he wants to go to a club contesting for the Premiership who could use him.

Dont think the crows are too close to contesting any time soon, got some good kids coming through though and Im from Adelaide so I should have some idea.

Its a non-issue for the Dees to even look at him, not within the age group

On the flip side, Im interesting in seeing if theres any other superstars who are a bit younger, who we may look at getting in the next few years.

I noticed in a couple of recent media appearances that Matthew Pavlich has become very non committal about renewing his contract with Freo. I believe he is not entiely happy at freo. Should the situation arise where he was put on the trade table, do you think melbourne should make a play for him? What would you give up to get him?

My opinionis he's getting on in age and you'd maybe get 3 or 4 years out of him. maybe not worth giving up the next superstar of the competition for him. If i were freo i'd probs make the hard call and trade him, but what i'd want for him i don't think melbourne should give up.

no wucking fay, forget about him, he is NOT a team player, its all about Pavlich to that [censored]

Wouldn't normally post this but I will haha

Woke up this morning with a msg from a mate saying Pav to Melbourne.

This mate is the biggest fair weather melb supporter out there (he would probably think Yze is still on our list) so I'm not taking too much notice.

He said his uncle is mates with Hutchy and Shwartz and some other guys. Said Pav wants to play in Vic and Melb first choice. Apparently he owns a horse with Juddy, although I have no idea why that was relevant.

I personally reckon it's all hear say. And I also wouldn't think at Round 5 he would of already chosen a club as his first choice, especially us. Although we are yet to show him our powerpoint presentation!

Just thought I would post it to add some juice to this discussion

So Pav to the Blues then?

Melbourne is 2 - 3 years from a finals appearance so whats the point in a nearly retired Pavlich

Bloody hell, the kid is 27. He doesn't turn 28 until New Year's Eve. He's got MINIMUM 5 years left - that's assuming he only plays until 31. Being the champion he is you would expect him to play on 'til 33 or 34. Absolutely ridiculous and misinformed is all this talk of him being past it and too old. He is in his prime at 27. For goodness' sake.

Bloody hell, the kid is 27. He doesn't turn 28 until New Year's Eve. He's got MINIMUM 5 years left - that's assuming he only plays until 31. Being the champion he is you would expect him to play on 'til 33 or 34. Absolutely ridiculous and misinformed is all this talk of him being past it and too old. He is in his prime at 27. For goodness' sake.

Tell him to sit tight until the 2010 draft.

Bloody hell, the kid is 27. He doesn't turn 28 until New Year's Eve. He's got MINIMUM 5 years left - that's assuming he only plays until 31. Being the champion he is you would expect him to play on 'til 33 or 34. Absolutely ridiculous and misinformed is all this talk of him being past it and too old. He is in his prime at 27. For goodness' sake.

agreed AD imagine having pav at fullforward, watts and miller in the pockets, sounds good.

In 1983 under huge fanfare, MFC recruited Kelvin Templeton (Brownlow Medallist and enough said the better) and Peter Moore, Brownlow Medallist and out and out champion. At the time we were sitting at no 8 on a ladder made up of 12 teams and it was felt that these 2 champion players would make the difference at a struggling club. As I have said, Templeton was a downright ill advised move as his best years (and knees) were well and truly behind him but Peter Moore gave everything for his new club and even managed to win another Brownlow with the Dees. By 1986, his last effective year with Melbourne, we had slipped to 11th on the ladder and were heavily in debt for our troubles. The new breed of young kids who followed were the ones who formed the real future of our great teams of the late 80's. A young fellow called Stynes helped out quite a bit.

What I am saying is that one marquee player in a young rebuilding team will not make a massive difference to the clubs fortunes, except maybe to provide some time for the youngsters to develop. And what he can most definitely do is unbalance the clubs focus and finances. To get Pavlich we would be looking at giving up at least our first couple of picks and maybe a youngster as well. With the club alreadyshowing such discipline by not rushing our future marquee player, JW into the Ones and generally managing the kids tells me that they have a strict plan that they are following for success and I can't believe that they would derail this plan at this stage with a one off signing. As another example, look at what Judd has done for Carlton, there is no doubting his supreme skills but he as one man has not been able , so far, to turn the Bl@£$es into anymore than a mediocre team.

No Pavlich for me.

You can bet your bottom dollar every side would be interested in him. he is in the top five players in the AFL and IMHO top 2 forwards (j brown) is the only guy I would currently chase before pav. Therefore minus those that have salery issues (carlt$n) every other club except bris/stk/Haw due to current forward setups would be interested in his services. He will be as hot an item as juddy was if he decideds to put himself on the market.

he used to be in the top five, i think he has slid back a bit in the last twelve months of footy

In 1983 under huge fanfare, MFC recruited Kelvin Templeton (Brownlow Medallist and enough said the better) and Peter Moore, Brownlow Medallist and out and out champion. At the time we were sitting at no 8 on a ladder made up of 12 teams and it was felt that these 2 champion players would make the difference at a struggling club. As I have said, Templeton was a downright ill advised move as his best years (and knees) were well and truly behind him but Peter Moore gave everything for his new club and even managed to win another Brownlow with the Dees. By 1986, his last effective year with Melbourne, we had slipped to 11th on the ladder and were heavily in debt for our troubles. The new breed of young kids who followed were the ones who formed the real future of our great teams of the late 80's. A young fellow called Stynes helped out quite a bit.

What I am saying is that one marquee player in a young rebuilding team will not make a massive difference to the clubs fortunes, except maybe to provide some time for the youngsters to develop. And what he can most definitely do is unbalance the clubs focus and finances. To get Pavlich we would be looking at giving up at least our first couple of picks and maybe a youngster as well. With the club alreadyshowing such discipline by not rushing our future marquee player, JW into the Ones and generally managing the kids tells me that they have a strict plan that they are following for success and I can't believe that they would derail this plan at this stage with a one off signing. As another example, look at what Judd has done for Carlton, there is no doubting his supreme skills but he as one man has not been able , so far, to turn the Bl@£$es into anymore than a mediocre team.

No Pavlich for me.

Very good post 'gary honey's dud brother'.