Are you satisfied with Bailey at the moment?

[Chook 15,012]

Isn't it amazing what a pre-season can do for a person? It's not just for Colin Sylvia or Jared Rivers anymore - even a coach can benefit from the excuse!

[steve_f 40]

1) Overall win-loss record

Slightly inadequate. We should have won one or two more if the factors below had been addressed propoerly.

2) Weekly selections

Would have been adequate except that he picked players who had let him down in the previous week.

3) Pre game tactics

OK. Possibly good but hard to tell with the poor execution.

4) Match day tactics - including the ability to react in game day conditions, and the opposition coach.

OK, more flexible than Daniher, BUT

He was unable to stop his players from stopping. I saw numbers 32, 34 and the regular crew strolling out of the right forward pocket as the Tigers cleared the ball along the outer wing in Round 22. SNAFU

5) Brand of football

OK. We looked good for patches in matches e.g. against Carlton (confirmed independently by a Blues supporter).

But we turned the ball over regularly. Wheatley is now an unreliable kick.

The skills of the side are unreasonably bad after 12 months in his stewardship. I would have more confidence in SHeedy or Daniher with respect to this. We sank very low in 2007. With hindsight, we should have insisted that Daniher see out the year.

6) Mid week and after game press conferences

He made the right noises but do not translate into reality at the selection table. Bemoaned a lack of spirit but rewarded the poor efforts with selection next week.

Beware Bailey! This is what made Daniher a mixed blessing. This is what cost us a top 4 in 2006; yes, just two years ago.

7) Focus on youth - the omissions of White, Yze, Holland, Carroll

Correct with White and Holland.

Yze should have been given the opportunity to resurrect his career.

Holland should have been played picked in front of crippled Neitz as for the past few years but then he ain't the club legend.

OVERALL RATING: Inadequate. Lots of talk but no ..... well in racing parlance, not entire.

However, he could just wake up one day and be fair dinkum. It is a pity that we are reliant on prayer rather than the board or administration.

[Hannabal 4]

5) Brand of football

OK. We looked good for patches in matches e.g. against Carlton (confirmed independently by a Blues supporter).

But we turned the ball over regularly. Wheatley is now an unreliable kick.

I have to take exception to this point. Our brand of football was hideous. To the point where it's hard to complain about our draw and limited free to air coverage. I've rarely seen a side play a a less attractive brand of football. At least Sydney at their ugliest provided close scores, to some a compelling contest and, most importantly, a flag. I'm hopeful that the players make better decisions and less skill errors next year.

Btw, Wheatley has always been a poor kick under any sort of pressure.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

I have to take exception to this point. Our brand of football was hideous. To the point where it's hard to complain about our draw and limited free to air coverage. I've rarely seen a side play a a less attractive brand of football. At least Sydney at their ugliest provided close scores, to some a compelling contest and, most importantly, a flag. I'm hopeful that the players make better decisions and less skill errors next year.

Btw, Wheatley has always been a poor kick under any sort of pressure.

Agreed. We played shocking football, no doubt about it. It's quite embarrassing to be in the crowd and hear nothing but Melbourne supporters shouting abuse at the team because they don't kick the football.

And you're right about Wheatley. He was over-rated by some just because he can kick 50 metres.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Wheatley's kicking is akin to an U12s kid that can kick 20metres further than anyone else.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Isn't it amazing what a pre-season can do for a person? It's not just for Colin Sylvia or Jared Rivers anymore - even a coach can benefit from the excuse!

nice work chook, got a good laugh out of that

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Dean Bailey has now cleaned out the deadwood over the past 14 months, doesn`t open his mouth for the sake of it, losing games is a formality as long as we go down swinging. as he said `we want people who want to play for the jumper` he got valuable games into the likes of martin garland valenti and buckley. he has planted the seeds of the future

[Hards 2]

I have to take exception to this point. Our brand of football was hideous. To the point where it's hard to complain about our draw and limited free to air coverage. I've rarely seen a side play a a less attractive brand of football. At least Sydney at their ugliest provided close scores, to some a compelling contest and, most importantly, a flag. I'm hopeful that the players make better decisions and less skill errors next year.

This is largely what I am not satisfied with Dean Bailey.

We implemented a brand of football that does not win Premierships.

That and the same problems you could see in Round 1 were still in existance in Round 22, which suggests to me that they weren't addressed at all during the season, and that is a major worry. For all the talk of the buzzword, the one thing we never were in 2008 was competitive.

I don't see how anyone could be satisfied with what we saw in 2008. Aside from a couple of the younger guys and Brad Green stepping up a bit there was basically nothing to be gained from 2008.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

tbh I wouldn't completely write off the game plan til you have 22 players capable of playing at AFL level.

This year the 1s would have struggled against Kilsyth U16s

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

This is largely what I am not satisfied with Dean Bailey.

We implemented a brand of football that does not win Premierships.

That and the same problems you could see in Round 1 were still in existance in Round 22, which suggests to me that they weren't addressed at all during the season, and that is a major worry. For all the talk of the buzzword, the one thing we never were in 2008 was competitive.

I don't see how anyone could be satisfied with what we saw in 2008. Aside from a couple of the younger guys and Brad Green stepping up a bit there was basically nothing to be gained from 2008.

I pretty much agree with all of that.

[Roost It 1,434]

1) Overall win-loss record

Slightly inadequate. We should have won one or two more if the factors below had been addressed propoerly.

2) Weekly selections

Would have been adequate except that he picked players who had let him down in the previous week.

3) Pre game tactics

OK. Possibly good but hard to tell with the poor execution.

4) Match day tactics - including the ability to react in game day conditions, and the opposition coach.

OK, more flexible than Daniher, BUT

He was unable to stop his players from stopping. I saw numbers 32, 34 and the regular crew strolling out of the right forward pocket as the Tigers cleared the ball along the outer wing in Round 22. SNAFU

5) Brand of football

OK. We looked good for patches in matches e.g. against Carlton (confirmed independently by a Blues supporter).

But we turned the ball over regularly. Wheatley is now an unreliable kick.

The skills of the side are unreasonably bad after 12 months in his stewardship. I would have more confidence in SHeedy or Daniher with respect to this. We sank very low in 2007. With hindsight, we should have insisted that Daniher see out the year.

6) Mid week and after game press conferences

He made the right noises but do not translate into reality at the selection table. Bemoaned a lack of spirit but rewarded the poor efforts with selection next week.

Beware Bailey! This is what made Daniher a mixed blessing. This is what cost us a top 4 in 2006; yes, just two years ago.

7) Focus on youth - the omissions of White, Yze, Holland, Carroll

Correct with White and Holland.

Yze should have been given the opportunity to resurrect his career.

Holland should have been played picked in front of crippled Neitz as for the past few years but then he ain't the club legend.

OVERALL RATING: Inadequate. Lots of talk but no ..... well in racing parlance, not entire.

However, he could just wake up one day and be fair dinkum. It is a pity that we are reliant on prayer rather than the board or administration.

Your argument has more holes than a ten year old pin cushion. Did you even look at the list he inherited. He played all the uninjured players, gave the young players a chance to prove themselves, before playing them at sandy again. He stopped playing all the old players who have no part of our future. Yze, resurrect his career, you must be joking. As for the game plan, give him a chance to develop it, he's getting the players and teaching the young, just what a coach should be doing. Take a look at the player's recruited since he arrived. Morton, Grimes, Maric could well turn out to be 3 of the better players to play for this club. Don't discount Cheney and McNamara either. I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing. As for your "Beware Bailey" line, I'm sure he's quaking in his boots at that warning.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Just like to hear what the general view of Bailey is at the moment. There a couple of posters who are dead against him, many posters sitting on the fence while a select few are putting their 100% faith in Bailey and his process.

Here are factors to assess the senior coach's performance:

1) Overall win-loss record

2) Weekly selections

3) Pre game tactics

4) Match day tactics - including the ability to react in game day conditions, and the opposition coach.

5) Brand of football

6) Mid week and after game press conferences

7) Focus on youth - the omissions of White, Yze, Holland, Carroll

I avoided the option of 'don't know' as I want people to jump off the fence and voice their opinion on our coach.

Please expand on your answer!

I am happy that Bailey was given the role to coach the DEES.

I see his first season as one where we needed to change the culture & pecking order of the past leaders who may have idolised the likes of softish leaders in Yze, White & others who would not commit the body for collision. DONE

I also think he needed to turn the list over, giving most a run to see what we have, & more importantly, what we don't. We've delisted some who weren't up to it. DONE

We unearthed a couple of players who have great promise, & get a priority pick into the deal.

For me as you can tell it's not about ladder position or status. It's about taking the thourough road to build a Premiership team. Just building a competative team like Daniher did DOES NOT CUT IT for me anymore.

It's build a seriously good team or bust for me.

We have this draft & next to grab the talent required to make a top team, then we can top up that (2009) list in '010/011. Our window should begin to open 2011 onwards.

[mo64 5,853]

Our window should begin to open 2011 onwards.

You are kidding yourself. You really believe that this club can financially afford to be in the doldrums for 2 more years, whilst Bailey develops his wunderkids.

And what evidence is there that Bailey can mould talented footballers into a premiership team, based on this season? Kids like Jones and Bate who finished in the top 3 of the 2007 B&F, actually regressed under Bailey, with his whiz bang game plan.

And you have the gall to bag Daniher for building a competitive side from day one (1998). What a joke.

[Guest Schtacker]

Email from the near future

Dear Dean,

I appreciate your opinion that books, theory, exams and the like are helpful for getting the side to play to your plan. However, since most of these blokes gave up on reading years ago and are thick as [censored], I fear it is going straight over their heads. Miller is looking at his sheet like it is the instructions for the first flying machine or something.

It is my opinion that we should get them out onto the field for some running, weights and ball work. Have you seen them lately? Jared Rivers had to be reminded today what colour grass is. Most of them haven't a clue what they're doing, are slow and skinny and couldn't hit a nail with a hammer. I saw Wheatley have a shot on goal today and it ended up on the roof of the stands... behind him. Nathan Jones wants some help with his kicking but all your assistants are lying on the grass knocking back Coronas. I can't believe we had that praccy match McLean vs the rest and Brocky got up.

Looks like we struggle to score a behind this season if you don't remove a digit. Since Round 1 is next week can we get outside and get the footies out please? Do you even know where they are or if we even have any? Dollars just got off the phone with Vlad and is on his way down here now and he's about as happy as John Wayne Bobbit.

Regards - Stynesy

P.S. Where the Fark is Chris Johnson?

[45HG 1,539]

Whilst I'm not into the "bagging" Daniher debate, I feel the two styles are based very differently

Bailey's style, with the "train-wreck" of a list he has inherited, will take time. It's just something we will have to deal with, and hope he's going the right way about him.

It's easy to say Daniher "built a competitive side from day one," but after day 366 did he begin to build an uncompetitive side? Day 732, did he begin to build a competitive one again. You see what I mean.

Jones and Bate had poor years, but to simply blaim the coach is quite naive and simplistic IMO.

Honestly, I don't think we have a choice whether we reside in the doldrums or not. Saying that we can't financially afford to do so simply ignores the fact that our club was facing financial ruin 4 years ago, and on-field success did little to change that, and we simply staved off the reality until our list inevitably crumbled

[Yencks 8]

-i don't think many people could have coped the way bailey did this season

-he is not copping a lot of bad attention (like harvey)...in fact, a lot of melbourne supporters in general think that he has promise

he speaks very well and that is about all we can judge him on at this stage

i cant think of anyone that could have come to melbourne at the end of 2007, who could have handled the pressure as well as he has

he's not looking for easy options, he's looking for a premiership

he's been part of a premiership winning side before

he knows what it takes

i am exited with what this team will produce in about three years time

maric, morton, grimes, mclean, bate, jones, davey, watts, chris johnson (jokes)

most of these guys are "potential" but i think we have a very exiting future with them

--how anyone can be dissatisfied at the moment is beyond me

bailey is looking at future and future only...the present is important, but if we had won more than four games this year, people would probably be critisicing him for giving up potential superstar draft pick oppurtunities

[Jaded No More 68,867]

He hasn't taken the easy option yet, and I admire him for that.

Let's hope the trend continues when it comes to drafting and captaincy appointments.

[Diablo 1]

Am I satisfied? I am satisfied that, unless he was indeed the messiah, there isn't alot he could have done better. Gave the young guys a chance, and, unlike Daniher, kept them in the team even though they only got (gasp!) 10 touches in their first league games. I suppose thats been the major plus to come out of Bailey. His seemingly 'no BS' attitude is not really a positive for me at this stage. It's all well and good to blab on about playing for the jumper, but he's got to accept, at least privately, that ostensibly footballers want cash, and the opportunity to earn more cash by showing how good they are. It won't make the peanut supporters happy, but it is a football reality these days. He probably doesn't have alot of room to move on the cash front, however, so I can't count that against him.

Generally, however, I find his propaganda tiresome. When people say he is 'making the right noises' generally those people are mere minions and unable to comprehend any higher level of dialect. 'Making the right noises' means he is saying the same old [censored] that most coaches would say. He doesn't speak badly, as such, but he does say the same dribble we get from most coaches, and thus, most of what he says can hardly be construed as promising.

Going forward, the problem for Bailey is that he may well only have another bad season remaining before the knives come out. Given the overall consensus is that we are on a hiding to nothing currently, and need a serious injection of draft talent, he has an unfortunate conundrum on his hands. Try and plaster over the cracks this coming year to make himself look better, or suck it up and accept that we need to bomb out and get some more good youngsters. Fortunately for the club and supporters, but unfortunately for Bailey, I don't think he has too many plasterers on hand. It will be an interesting test of the club's mettle to back him when people start calling for his head.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You are kidding yourself. You really believe that this club can financially afford to be in the doldrums for 2 more years, whilst Bailey develops his wunderkids.

And what evidence is there that Bailey can mould talented footballers into a premiership team, based on this season? Kids like Jones and Bate who finished in the top 3 of the 2007 B&F, actually regressed under Bailey, with his whiz bang game plan.

And you have the gall to bag Daniher for building a competitive side from day one (1998). What a joke.

You are right Mo it cant afford it. You have banged on about the bleedin obvious for some time now so what are the realistic options Mo to where we are now?

BTW, Daniher, had Lyon, Tingay, Schwartz and others return from long term injury a No 1 draft top young ruckman called Jeff White join too? What aces did Bailey get at the start?

[mo64 5,853]

You are right Mo it cant afford it. You have banged on about the bleedin obvious for some time now so what are the realistic options Mo to where we are now?

BTW, Daniher, had Lyon, Tingay, Schwartz and others return from long term injury a No 1 draft top young ruckman called Jeff White join too? What aces did Bailey get at the start?

I've been saying since our practice matches that Bailey's game plan was wrong for our list. I was proven right. And don't give me this b#llshit that our list is so bad, that we were basically uncompetitive in 80% of the quarters we played. Another coach may not have improved our win/loss ratio this year, but at least we could have played cohesive and competitive football. We were horrible to watch, and not even the greatest Bailey apologist in yourself could deny that.

And give credit to Daniher for getting the best out of ageing players, and attracting a big name recruit in White. Bailey failed on both counts.

[e25 5]

I've been saying since our practice matches that Bailey's game plan was wrong for our list. I was proven right. And don't give me this b#llshit that our list is so bad, that we were basically uncompetitive in 80% of the quarters we played. Another coach may not have improved our win/loss ratio this year, but at least we could have played cohesive and competitive football. We were horrible to watch, and not even the greatest Bailey apologist in yourself could deny that.

And give credit to Daniher for getting the best out of ageing players, and attracting a big name recruit in White. Bailey failed on both counts.

Nothing you said has been proven right. The only thing that has been proven (once again) is that a list full of young, inexperienced, developing players and aging, past-their-prime, soon-to-retire players is doomed to suffer a very poor season.

And its also been proven that no matter how short a time a new coach has been in the position, some idiot will come up with a reason for why he should get the axe.

Daniher DIDN'T get the best out of aging players - he had them in their prime and when they were past it he was found, resulting in him being fired.

Giving Daniher credit for recruiting White is folly. Seriously clutching at straws here, aren't you?

Give it a rest and SUPPORT the club.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I've been saying since our practice matches that Bailey's game plan was wrong for our list. I was proven right. And don't give me this b#llshit that our list is so bad, that we were basically uncompetitive in 80% of the quarters we played. Another coach may not have improved our win/loss ratio this year, but at least we could have played cohesive and competitive football. We were horrible to watch, and not even the greatest Bailey apologist in yourself could deny that.

And give credit to Daniher for getting the best out of ageing players, and attracting a big name recruit in White. Bailey failed on both counts.

And I have been asking you since you first raised your cocked theory what coach/ game plan would suit a slow, underskilled, inexperienced, leadership lacking group? And not surprisingly you have not answered.

You have proven nothing except confirmed your silly fantasies that the list is fine and competitive and Bailey has had it easy this year at MFC.

White was a PSD# 1 when MFC finished last in 1997. Daniher inherited the benefit. Whats available in the PSD these days? Of course that's Bailey's fault.

Daniher had those aging players in their prime and secured them to contracts that hang around our necks like millstones.

Bailey has the job in front of him and he will be judged with his record over the period. But its laughable that the blatant deterioration of the list over the past 12 - 24 months would have even penetrated the dullest mind. Clearly

And the frequency of your need to use the word b#llshit (or its dervatives) in your posts is a fair indication of their lack of content and substance.

[mo64 5,853]

White was a PSD# 1 when MFC finished last in 1997. Daniher inherited the benefit. Whats available in the PSD these days? Of course that's Bailey's fault.

Daniher had those aging players in their prime and secured them to contracts that hang around our necks like millstones.

Just as I thought, you either have no regard for facts, or you base all your comments on what you read in the newspapers.

White was acquired by trading pick 2 in the ND to Fremantle, who on-traded it to Richmond for Chris Bond. Richmond then drafted Brad Ottens.

And to say that Lyon, Tingay, G. Lovett, Schwarz, and Stynes were in their prime in 1997 is factually wrong.

Stick to your Patrick Smith like commentary on player morals and club cultures, because on-field football debates are not your strong suit.

[mo64 5,853]

Nothing you said has been proven right. The only thing that has been proven (once again) is that a list full of young, inexperienced, developing players and aging, past-their-prime, soon-to-retire players is doomed to suffer a very poor season.

Shaft, when did you start following the club, because you obviously weren't around in 1998 when we had aging stars, who all retired within a year or 2, in addition to some young inexperienced players, and we made the preliminary final.

So like Rhino, don't let the facts get in the way of your emotive rants.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Just as I thought, you either have no regard for facts, or you base all your comments on what you read in the newspapers.

White was acquired by trading pick 2 in the ND to Fremantle, who on-traded it to Richmond for Chris Bond. Richmond then drafted Brad Ottens.

And to say that Lyon, Tingay, G. Lovett, Schwarz, and Stynes were in their prime in 1997 is factually wrong.

Stick to your Patrick Smith like commentary on player morals and club cultures, because on-field football debates are not your strong suit.

Whether White was picked up in the ND or PSD does not change the fact of the Coaches involvement in the recruiting process. Aslo note that Daniher had picks 1 as PP while Bailey had no PP pick. Damn those facts Mo.

The return of Lyon, Tingay, Schwartz and to a lesser extent Lovett and Stynes were critical in getting MFC to a preliminary final in 1998 after finishing stone motherless last the previous year. If they weren't in their prime then they were playing pretty good football. Ox won a B& F in 1999 too. Not bad Mo?

Now name the players of that calibre that we had in the MFC side this year that could have provided that same sort of skills lift and leadership direction? Careful dont make a fool of yourself again with the answer.

Still waiting for coach/ game plan that would suit our list.......champ?

Its ironic that on field debates are the area where I and other posters have pinned you as a rancid vacuum of spite that shows a desire for vective ridden sweeping statement only to shown to be as shallow as a saucer.

Keep the b#llshit flowing legend.