Anyone for cricket?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

righto rhino you really got no idea about these things you won't even listen to test legends. no ones sayin he can't captain, he's just shitat it.

but he may learn... unlike yourself.

I can make my own reasoned and logical judgements without parroting and misrepresenting what knowledgeable sources have said. And if when they have made any critical comments about Clarke they certainly haven't been blaming for the rancid performances of other players or claiming he is "shitat it" re captaincy

And you and gormless mates have shown not an iota of a intelligent or considered case for your criticism of Clarke's captaincy.

And you have the ignorance to claim others don't get it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Despite the heavy defeat, Maddinson would surely have to go close to Man of the match after his effort in this match. Two 50's in low totals and two 2nd innings wickets!

.....or a spot for the 4th test.....

[MadAsHell 4,088]

.....or a spot for the 4th test.....

You might be right there RR. The 4 day leg of the Australia A tour has now ended and not sure if Maddinson was in the OD squad, so he could be a handy inclusion seeing as he's in form.

Tea on Day 2.

Australia 7/507

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

C. Rogers 84

G. Swann 5/149 (41)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

T. Bresnan 1/114 (32)

Got to put out honerable mentions to both Haddin & Starc on their current unbeaten 50's. Come out after tea and go hell for leather for 10-12 overs, get the total to somewhere from 550-580 and then have an hour at England before stumps tonight. Lets bat them out of the game. Loving seeing their bowlers worked into the ground. They're looking tired that's for sure, especially Anderson!

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Australia declare at 7/527.

Thought they could have batted another hour, but maybe they're concerned about some of the weather around?

Come on Aussies, lets get them 3 down tonight to really start and turn the screws!

[Macca 16,173]

Australia declare at 7/527.

Thought they could have batted another hour, but maybe they're concerned about some of the weather around?

Come on Aussies, lets get them 3 down tonight to really start and turn the screws!

Maximum of 32 overs to be bowled for the rest of the day. I thought it was another clever declaration by Pup - make them go out in the field again after tea (maybe they thought they'd be out there for another hour)

Anything to upset the concentration of their first 3 batsmen. Think we'll see Lyon bowl 3 or 4 overs tonight as well. Nice 2 hour session for our bowlers to go all out.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Stumps on Day 2.

Australia 7/527

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

C. Rogers 84

G. Swann 5/159 (43)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

T. Bresnan 1/114 (32)

England 2/52

A. Cook 36*

J. Root 8

J. Trott 2*

P. Siddle 2/7 (5)

S. Watson 0/0 (5)

M. Starc 0/8 (5)

Great day for Australia, and I can finally say it, Australia on top,... For now. And good to see us finally get some luck with Bresnan not refering his dismissal. Would love to knock England over tomorrow for under 300 and then bat for half a day and set them 420 in a day and a half. Worst case scenario I'll take having them 8/350 at stumps tomorrow. If they're in any better position then that it will take an effort on our part to get a result in the final two days.

[Cards13 9,117]

Great to see us in front for once in the series. Going to be a huge ask to get a winning result from here. Lyon will be bowling some long spells and needing some spot on line and length from the quicks at the other end.

[jazza 1,323]

glad warner used his DRS meltdown while we are in such a good position rather it happen now and the team sort it out once and for all

with so many runs on the board , it wont haunt us in this match. MC no doubt will set some drs rules within the team from here on in

like I said pre first test , keep their bowlers in the field, and hopefully this will pay off in the 4th test

and last but not least, how good was it to see rogers hold top spot.

[Cards13 9,117]

Jazza wear down Anderson and Swann as much as possible!!! Drag them down!! Then flay Bresnan and push around broad.

[Macca 16,173]

Yes, Rogers did bat very well and after the first 2 Tests, he needed to. Full marks to him though and it was his positive batting that set the tone for the rest of the innings.

I know this might be shuffling the deck chairs but what about a straight swap between the batting positions of Warner and Watson? Because of his more than handy bowling, Watson will stay in the side for now. But he will need runs in the 2nd innings to justify his opening spot.

Warner is struggling against spin and he's more of an opener anyway. The no.6 really needs to be able to play spin well. If Warner could get away to 25 or 30 by the time Swann comes on, he'll at least be 'in' and be in a better position to attack their spinner. Whether Watson could hold down the no.6 spot is the question though. His bowling saves him and we definitely need a decent 5th bowler in this side.

Well done to the bowlers in the last session - gave them nothing and that huge score of 527 is a big psychological advantage. Really hope that Lyon can get amongst the wickets. Clarke is using Siddle very intelligently - holding him back probably gets him nice and fired up and England are effectively facing one of our best bowlers, bowling 3rd change!

[titan_uranus 22,368]

Great cricket from Australia, but I don't think we're good enough to get a win in this Test. That missed chance/drop from Cook in Lyon's first over might come back to really bite us.

Lyon showed why he should never have been dropped; Agar will be back one day, but not right now.

I think I can understand why Warner reviewed, with his bat hitting his pad. I think. It didn't cost us (unlike Watson's selfishness did) so I'm not too fussed.

Bresnan I think was victim of the DRS' problems. A fully functioning DRS system would have encouraged him, but once Erasmus paid that out, how confident can you be of Dharmasena overturning it? Bresnan wasn't to know which angles were going to be available and what mood Dharmasena is in. I understand his decision, but obviously a bad one.

[Biffen 12,330]

It's a pity we're talking more about the DRS system than the cricket.

Let's see if the Aussies can conjure up a loss from here.

It wont be easy but I'm confident the boys can do it on form alone.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Great cricket from Australia, but I don't think we're good enough to get a win in this Test. That missed chance/drop from Cook in Lyon's first over might come back to really bite us.

Lyon showed why he should never have been dropped; Agar will be back one day, but not right now.

I think I can understand why Warner reviewed, with his bat hitting his pad. I think. It didn't cost us (unlike Watson's selfishness did) so I'm not too fussed.

Bresnan I think was victim of the DRS' problems. A fully functioning DRS system would have encouraged him, but once Erasmus paid that out, how confident can you be of Dharmasena overturning it? Bresnan wasn't to know which angles were going to be available and what mood Dharmasena is in. I understand his decision, but obviously a bad one.

They can still win it. Hell they played poorly in Trent Bridge and nearly won.

The Lyon miss was unfortunate.

However i think Bresnan is a victim of Bresnan. He thought he hit it end of story.

The DRS technology is fine but the processes around it and the judgements made have been appalling.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Yes, Rogers did bat very well and after the first 2 Tests, he needed to. Full marks to him though and it was his positive batting that set the tone for the rest of the innings.

I know this might be shuffling the deck chairs but what about a straight swap between the batting positions of Warner and Watson? Because of his more than handy bowling, Watson will stay in the side for now. But he will need runs in the 2nd innings to justify his opening spot.

Warner is struggling against spin and he's more of an opener anyway. The no.6 really needs to be able to play spin well. If Warner could get away to 25 or 30 by the time Swann comes on, he'll at least be 'in' and be in a better position to attack their spinner. Whether Watson could hold down the no.6 spot is the question though. His bowling saves him and we definitely need a decent 5th bowler in this side.

Well done to the bowlers in the last session - gave them nothing and that huge score of 527 is a big psychological advantage. Really hope that Lyon can get amongst the wickets. Clarke is using Siddle very intelligently - holding him back probably gets him nice and fired up and England are effectively facing one of our best bowlers, bowling 3rd change!

I'd play Warner as the No 3, or 2.. if 2, then Rogers @ 3, Clark @ 4, followed by Khawaja @ 5.

Warner it seems needs to play against the shiny ball, & I seems Rogers is more capable than both Watson & Warner against any spin. then with Clark the best Swann player in the team @ 4, followed by Khawaja to bolster the top/middle order.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Great cricket from Australia, but I don't think we're good enough to get a win in this Test. That missed chance/drop from Cook in Lyon's first over might come back to really bite us.

Lyon showed why he should never have been dropped; Agar will be back one day, but not right now.

I think I can understand why Warner reviewed, with his bat hitting his pad. I think. It didn't cost us (unlike Watson's selfishness did) so I'm not too fussed.

Bresnan I think was victim of the DRS' problems. A fully functioning DRS system would have encouraged him, but once Erasmus paid that out, how confident can you be of Dharmasena overturning it? Bresnan wasn't to know which angles were going to be available and what mood Dharmasena is in. I understand his decision, but obviously a bad one.

rain on the last day may be a problem.

[Macca 16,173]

I'd play Warner as the No 3, or 2.. if 2, then Rogers @ 3, Clark @ 4, followed by Khawaja @ 5.

Warner it seems needs to play against the shiny ball, & I seems Rogers is more capable than both Watson & Warner against any spin. then with Clark the best Swann player in the team @ 4, followed by Khawaja to bolster the top/middle order.

The selectors picked 5 opening batsmen in the original squad (out of 7 specialist batsmen picked) Khawaja is a no.3 and Clarke was the only middle order batsman picked. They added Smith to the squad but it was always a batting squad that had too many openers.

Middle order players should be able to play spin well. Openers need to play pace well. That's sounds rather obvious I know, but that's usually the point of difference between both types of players. The no.3 and no.4 traditionally have been able to play both pace and spin well - that's largely why they're regarded as the best players. That's also rather obvious but that should then serve as a way the National side is selected.

Warner is an opener, batting at no.6. The 2 batsmen who aren't playing (Cowan and Hughes) are also opening batsmen. Some openers can make the transition (Hussey) but it is rare and because it's rare, it should not be relied upon as a policy.

What used to happen was that the States would have their best batsmen batting at 3 and/or 4 and from there the National selectors would then pick a player batting in those positions and he would start his career batting at no.5 or no.6 (in the Test side) (as a general rule)

Trying to turn openers into middle order players is a departure from how we've usually done things. It's any wonder we don't play spin well. It stands to reason.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The selectors picked 5 opening batsmen in the original squad (out of 7 specialist batsmen picked) Khawaja is a no.3 and Clarke was the only middle order batsman picked. They added Smith to the squad but it was always a batting squad that had too many openers.

Middle order players should be able to play spin well. Openers need to play pace well. That's sounds rather obvious I know, but that's usually the point of difference between both types of players. The no.3 and no.4 traditionally have been able to play both pace and spin well - that's largely why they're regarded as the best players. That's also rather obvious but that should then serve as a way the National side is selected.

Warner is an opener, batting at no.6. The 2 batsmen who aren't playing (Cowan and Hughes) are also opening batsmen. Some openers can make the transition (Hussey) but it is rare and because it's rare, it should not be relied upon as a policy.

What used to happen was that the States would have their best batsmen batting at 3 and/or 4 and from there the National selectors would then pick a player batting in those positions and he would start his career batting at no.5 or no.6 (in the Test side) (as a general rule)

Trying to turn openers into middle order players is a departure from how we've usually done things. It's any wonder we don't play spin well. It stands to reason.

IMO, hughes is far too reckless to play top order,, however he can score quickly, so maybe he can play mid order, but probably not on a turner or against the likes of swann who can turn on any track? Hughes may be in trouble.

Khawaja I think isn't ready to play 3.. IMO I don't think he's mentally tough enough as 1st drop, & going in early with backs to the wall style.... but I reckon we can bring him thru from the mid order behind clark.. Khawaja looks to me more of a no 4 than a gritty No 3.

I'm not in your team re getting rid of Watson, so I'd like Warner to bat @ 2 if he can work with Watson,,, otherwise @ 3.

Rogers is gritty & is my preferred No 3 atmo. as I said Pre test series. he surprised me with his scoring speed Day 1.

I'd like to see khawaja @ 5 to get him into top form & confidence, & then some day switch with Clark...

got the trots, Harris just did, he got the trots...

[Macca 16,173]

IMO, hughes is far too reckless to play top order,, however he can score quickly, so maybe he can play mid order, but probably not on a turner or against the likes of swann who can turn on any track? Hughes may be in trouble.

Khawaja I think isn't ready to play 3.. IMO I don't think he's mentally tough enough as 1st drop, & going in early with backs to the wall style.... but I reckon we can bring him thru from the mid order behind clark.. Khawaja looks to me more of a no 4 than a gritty No 3.

I'm not in your team re getting rid of Watson, so I'd like Warner to bat @ 2 if he can work with Watson,,, otherwise @ 3.

Rogers is gritty & is my preferred No 3 atmo. as I said Pre test series. he surprised me with his scoring speed Day 1.

I'd like to see khawaja @ 5 to get him into top form & confidence, & then some day switch with Clark...

We need to add 2 new young batsmen to the team. The problem is that you don't want to add 2 for the first Test in Brisbane so you could add one now. To my way of thinking, that would be a positive move not a panic move.

I'd bring Maddinson in for the 4th Test (regardless of the outcome of this Test) and another new batsman for Brisbane (Burns, Doolan, Silk?) Out of the 5 openers who are in England, 2 could stay (or only one if Silk gets a call up)

It's got to be remembered that Hughes, Cowan, Warner and Watson have all played enough Tests for the selectors to make a judgement. Rogers needs to keep performing and Khawaja and Smith are nowhere near established yet. Watson should only be replaced if it's a 'like for like' (a batting all rounder like Henriques, Maxwell or even Mitch Marsh)

We won't have the same problem facing Swann in our conditions but at some stage we must bite the bullet and make some moves for the future. We've done it with the bowlers (Cummins, Pattinson, Starc) and when those 3 are fit and raring to go we'll have quite a top attack.

Our current lot of batsmen aren't going to take us to no.1 in the world. The only star is Clarke and it's highly doubtful any of the others will become stars. We need to find 2 or 3 more star batsmen. A young batsman doesn't have to be starring at Shield level to be an eventual star Test batsman.

The aim is to be the very best. The process has always been to pick young players from the Shield ranks and give them a decent go at Test level. On an overall basis, it's a tried and true method and largely explains why we have the best Test record of all the countries.

[45HG 1,539]

Great take from Haddin puts Australia right into the driver's seat.

Cook gone for 62, England now 4-110 - still 417 behind.

[dee-luded 2,958]

We need to add 2 new young batsmen to the team. The problem is that you don't want to add 2 for the first Test in Brisbane so you could add one now. To my way of thinking, that would be a positive move not a panic move.

I'd bring Maddinson in for the 4th Test (regardless of the outcome of this Test) and another new batsman for Brisbane (Burns, Doolan, Silk?) Out of the 5 openers who are in England, 2 could stay (or only one if Silk gets a call up)

It's got to be remembered that Hughes, Cowan, Warner and Watson have all played enough Tests for the selectors to make a judgement. Rogers needs to keep performing and Khawaja and Smith are nowhere near established yet. Watson should only be replaced if it's a 'like for like' (a batting all rounder like Henriques, Maxwell or even Mitch Marsh)

We won't have the same problem facing Swann in our conditions but at some stage we must bite the bullet and make some moves for the future. We've done it with the bowlers (Cummins, Pattinson, Starc) and when those 3 are fit and raring to go we'll have quite a top attack.

Our current lot of batsmen aren't going to take us to no.1 in the world. The only star is Clarke and it's highly doubtful any of the others will become stars. We need to find 2 or 3 more star batsmen. A young batsman doesn't have to be starring at Shield level to be an eventual star Test batsman.

The aim is to be the very best. The process has always been to pick young players from the Shield ranks and give them a decent go at Test level. On an overall basis, it's a tried and true method and largely explains why we have the best Test record of all the countries.

I don't think its the right time to blood any kids at the moment...

we have to make sure the team environment is together & a united & focused team before we bring any kids in. this may only take another test if they can get past their insecure Ego's & stop the competative bitching.

I think the only possible weaknesses are hughes & khawaja & the spinners spot & allrounders spot.

Haddin at the moment looks steady, so I'd go for settling the side first to see what we've got.. like Melbourne, we have to relearn how to grind the opposition down all over again.

... Its not class we need mostly,,, its Unity, Courage & Fight. Once these are found again, then the class can come in.

Edited August 3, 2013 by dee-luded

[Macca 16,173]

I don't think its the right time to blood any kids at the moment...

we have to make sure the team environment is together & a united & focused team before we bring any kids in. this may only take another test if they can get past their insecure Ego's & stop the competative bitching.

I think the only possible weaknesses are hughes & khawaja & the spinners spot & allrounders spot.

Haddin at the moment looks steady, so I'd go for settling the side first to see what we've got.. like Melbourne, we have to relearn how to grind the opposition down all over again.

... Its not class we need mostly,,, its Unity, Courage & Fight. Once these are found again, then the class can come in.

I understand your point of view but I believe that a new young batsman should be added to the team at every opportunity. Bit hard to do that when a team wins 16 Tests in a row (twice) but even when we were a powerful combination we did have the odd chance to add a young batsman (Clarke instead of Hodge?)

I'm sharing the view of the selectors from the past. As previously mentioned, mine is a conservative view. Sticking with a batting combination that isn't taking you to the top, is high risk.

Do you believe any of Watson, Hughes, Smith, Warner, Cowan, Khawaja or Rogers will ever be great? (average high 40's or better) My answer is that Khawaja might but wouldn't be backing any of the others to make it.

Rogers could churn out some runs but we're going to have a problem with him in a couple of years regardless (when he turns 38) Wouldn't it be better to try out Silk now instead of Rogers? If it comes off, we've landed ourselves an 8 - 13 year batsman. If it doesn't work, you can always try another young player. It's a fine line between picking a side that can win and at the same time picking a team for the future. I've nothing against Rogers and he can bat .. it's just his age.

The selectors have given Agar a taste of it. He's been dropped but we'll see him again. He may not be seen again for a year or 2 but if or when he does force his way back in, there's a fair chance his bowling will have come on quite a bit.

[Cards13 9,117]

Starc sort it! Poor, commentators called the ball, bang over she goes, the pelicans ton.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Cards13

[Cards13 9,117]

Ps fark off that pelican has the 2'nd most test tons for the Poms?! The SAFO?! Fark me

Edited August 3, 2013 by Cards13

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Must say that apart from his late spell on Day 2, Lyon hasn't done anything to change my mind that bringing him in for Agar wasn't going to add anything to the team apart from giving us a weaker batting line up.

As for the discussion about blooding some young batsmen go, for me it's a case of I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but if the opportunity arrives I wouldn't be against it.

Apart from Clarke our top 6 really is up in the air. Watson & Warner seem to be in a place where they don't know themselves whether they can be bothered working hard enough at the longest form of the game. Hughes is an openner, however shouldn't come back into the XI for some time given the chances he's had. Smith I don't think is going to be good enough at this level and Khawaja has a queston mark. Rogers, while he looks to potentially have the goods, as Macca says, clearly has a shelf life.

Maddinson's certainly a batsman who's in form who I'd consider bringing into the side for our home series, but don't feel the need to rush him over now. Ideally I wouldn't be bringing in any really green batsmen until after our home series and the tour of South Africa as they'd be getting a pretty tough initiation. But if they're in form and there's a spot available, then don't shy away from it either.

Having said that I wouldn't discount either of Mark Cosgrove or George Bailey at making it into the XI as mature age players if they can produce some good form come the start of the Shield season.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Stumps on Day 3.

Australia 7/527

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

C. Rogers 84

G. Swann 5/159 (43)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

T. Bresnan 1/114 (32)

England 7/294

K. Pietersen 113

A. Cook 62

I. Bell 60

M. Starc 3/75 (26)

R. Harris 2/50 (26)

P. Siddle 2/53 (25)

Good effort by the Aussies. Would have loved 1 more wicket, but will take the 7 down. Important to try and wrap their innings up within the first hour tomorrow morning for around 320-350. Then go out and bat to get our lead to at least 320-350 and declare with an hour to go on Day 4 to keep them interested and increase our chances of taking some wicckets.

Could be a big finifh coming up to this test!