Anyone for cricket?

[H_T 2,941]

"If you're 2-nil up..stand up, if you're 2-nil up stand up..."

That's what we've been getting from the Poms in the stands here at Old Trafford. Amusing stuff really.

Amazing to see Clarke, Rogers and Smith dig deep and post some scores. In particular the skipper. He led well. The Khawaja decision was unbelievable. I could see there was a decent gap between bat and ball on the replay walking up stairs carrying four pints back to my seat. How on earth the 3rd umpire with all the technology at his disposal could make that howler of a decision is just mind boggling.

5 wickets and 240 odd runs for the day today. Aussies toiled hard particularly the fast bowlers, Lyon tried hard but the Poms play him well. They get plenty of practice with Swann in their team....

Awesome support here in Manchester for Test cricket. We wore our footy jumpers today for day 3, a day which the home crowd provided plenty of colour in dressing up. Some real funny stuff.

Look forward to hopefully a few early wickets tomorrow so the Aussies can rebuild a lead and have the Poms in before the day is out chasing around 350 if everything goes to plan....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Must say that apart from his late spell on Day 2, Lyon hasn't done anything to change my mind that bringing him in for Agar wasn't going to add anything to the team apart from giving us a weaker batting line up.

As for the discussion about blooding some young batsmen go, for me it's a case of I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, but if the opportunity arrives I wouldn't be against it.

Apart from Clarke our top 6 really is up in the air. Watson & Warner seem to be in a place where they don't know themselves whether they can be bothered working hard enough at the longest form of the game. Hughes is an openner, however shouldn't come back into the XI for some time given the chances he's had. Smith I don't think is going to be good enough at this level and Khawaja has a queston mark. Rogers, while he looks to potentially have the goods, as Macca says, clearly has a shelf life.

Maddinson's certainly a batsman who's in form who I'd consider bringing into the side for our home series, but don't feel the need to rush him over now. Ideally I wouldn't be bringing in any really green batsmen until after our home series and the tour of South Africa as they'd be getting a pretty tough initiation. But if they're in form and there's a spot available, then don't shy away from it either.

Having said that I wouldn't discount either of Mark Cosgrove or George Bailey at making it into the XI as mature age players if they can produce some good form come the start of the Shield season.

If you had listened to the carping over Lyons omission you would have thought he was a Test class spinner.

From what i have seen so far if you are a batsman struggling against spinners then you should face up to Lyon or Hauritz. They bowl you back into form.

Lyon really had a gem of a day with 500+ runs in the bag on a turner.

Clarke really has to plan this well. He needs 13 more wickets to get in the Test to win it and a big ? over Lyons ability to deliver.

Apart from Clarke our top 6 really is up in the air. Watson & Warner seem to be in a place where they don't know themselves whether they can be bothered working hard enough at the longest form of the game. Hughes is an openner, however shouldn't come back into the XI for some time given the chances he's had. Smith I don't think is going to be good enough at this level and Khawaja has a queston mark. Rogers, while he looks to potentially have the goods, as Macca says, clearly has a shelf life.

Agree with the bold.

Watson is burning his opportunities. If he fails with the bat in the 2nd dig I would swap he and Warner. At present Watson cant open and Warner is not a number six.

Unless a calamity strikes I would not expect to see Hughes in the baggy green for a long time.

If the 1st dig is an indication, Rogers has an opening spot there for the rest of the Ashes campaign.

In absence of a better alternative, i am prepared to back Smith. Dug in hard in India and England...he could make it.

Maddinson's certainly a batsman who's in form who I'd consider bringing into the side for our home series, but don't feel the need to rush him over now. Ideally I wouldn't be bringing in any really green batsmen until after our home series and the tour of South Africa as they'd be getting a pretty tough initiation. But if they're in form and there's a spot available, then don't shy away from it either.

Having said that I wouldn't discount either of Mark Cosgrove or George Bailey at making it into the XI as mature age players if they can produce some good form come the start of the Shield season.

You have to laugh at the suggestion that you would bring Maddinson in for the 4th Test. Good grief.

No doubt a player of the future but they would focus on him for the home series.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I understand your point of view but I believe that a new young batsman should be added to the team at every opportunity. Bit hard to do that when a team wins 16 Tests in a row (twice) but even when we were a powerful combination we did have the odd chance to add a young batsman (Clarke instead of Hodge?)

I'm sharing the view of the selectors from the past. As previously mentioned, mine is a conservative view. Sticking with a batting combination that isn't taking you to the top, is high risk.

Do you believe any of Watson, Hughes, Smith, Warner, Cowan, Khawaja or Rogers will ever be great? (average high 40's or better) My answer is that Khawaja might but wouldn't be backing any of the others to make it.

Rogers could churn out some runs but we're going to have a problem with him in a couple of years regardless (when he turns 38) Wouldn't it be better to try out Silk now instead of Rogers? If it comes off, we've landed ourselves an 8 - 13 year batsman. If it doesn't work, you can always try another young player. It's a fine line between picking a side that can win and at the same time picking a team for the future. I've nothing against Rogers and he can bat .. it's just his age.

The selectors have given Agar a taste of it. He's been dropped but we'll see him again. He may not be seen again for a year or 2 but if or when he does force his way back in, there's a fair chance his bowling will have come on quite a bit.

yes but Not when the team wheels are off culturally & environmentally, you need to look no further than Melbourne.

let Boof get his practices & values inplace first then bring them in.

the wheels are fitted & the alignment is starting to happen.

Edited August 4, 2013 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,958]

I understand your point of view but I believe that a new young batsman should be added to the team at every opportunity. Bit hard to do that when a team wins 16 Tests in a row (twice) but even when we were a powerful combination we did have the odd chance to add a young batsman (Clarke instead of Hodge?)

I'm sharing the view of the selectors from the past. As previously mentioned, mine is a conservative view. Sticking with a batting combination that isn't taking you to the top, is high risk.

Do you believe any of Watson, Hughes, Smith, Warner, Cowan, Khawaja or Rogers will ever be great? (average high 40's or better) My answer is that Khawaja might but wouldn't be backing any of the others to make it.

Rogers could churn out some runs but we're going to have a problem with him in a couple of years regardless (when he turns 38) Wouldn't it be better to try out Silk now instead of Rogers? If it comes off, we've landed ourselves an 8 - 13 year batsman. If it doesn't work, you can always try another young player. It's a fine line between picking a side that can win and at the same time picking a team for the future. I've nothing against Rogers and he can bat .. it's just his age.

The selectors have given Agar a taste of it. He's been dropped but we'll see him again. He may not be seen again for a year or 2 but if or when he does force his way back in, there's a fair chance his bowling will have come on quite a bit.

Smith too soon to say for me. but he seems to have stagnated over the same period of the recent couple of years turmoil.

Warner I think he has, but he needs strong leadership to allow him to be un-political & focus on his cricket. another victim of the leadership debacle over the last few years.

Watson I think is serviceable, & I'm hopeful he can get back to his strong quick run scoring ways as opener?

Hughes - one dayer

Cowan was stable as opener, but also has gone off in the same period as most, the last couple of years where the whole team lost focus & harmony. it unsettled all.

khawaja still too emotionally/mentally green imo to be 1st drop. but I think may have a future, start in the mid order.

Rogers is needed & will I think be one of the ones who eventually move over for one of your newbies.. Rogers is needed to steady the ship at present.

I think to re-balance the Unit, we have to do as Boof appears to be doing, to get the team past the last couple of destructive years under bad philosophical ideals & naive leaders.

[Macca 16,173]

yes but Not when the team wheels are off culturally & environment, you need to look no further than Melbourne.

let Boof get his practices & values inplace first then bring them in.

the wheels are fitted & the alignment is starting to happen.

The Test team could be (in theory) a gun side again within 18 months and CA is flush with funds. The footy club - read any of the footy threads for the bad news!

The cricket team just needs a few star players (batsmen mainly). Our bowling stocks are looking good and I believe there are some talented young batsmen in the Shield that are worth a go. The Shield has one of the best (if not the best) systems in the world in terms of producing 'ready to go' Test players. Just because the games can't pull a crowd and is largely ignored by the general public is irrelevant. The talent is there and probably always will be.

Many of our best Test batsmen in history were not gunning it at Shield level before they debuted in the Test side. S Waugh and Border had each only made 2 first class centuries before they debuted in the Test side. 2 of our all time greats who were largely unheard of and came from relative obscurity. Right now Maddinson, Burns, Doolan and the like are unknowns, but things can change rather quickly in cricket.

On one hand you're highly critical of our current batsmen (and their abilities) and on the other hand you don't want them replaced. If you sit on your hands, nothing ever changes. I'm advocating change but done at the right time without mass sackings. Bringing one or 2 new batsman in either now or in the next series is hardly a radical step. Especially when you consider we've slipped to number 4 in the Test rankings.

[jazza 1,323]

2 interesting things . when warner walks up the runway to speak to the batsmen at the other end,he mouths I didn't hit it. other batsmen replies, with eyes down not looking in the face of warner . errr I fink you knicked it

now were on the field and battling away, the coach gives the signal for an unrefered appeal YEP HE WAS OUT. just to make the afternoon all the more pleasurable the players could field happy in the knowledge they should've called DRS

captaincy, batsmenship, don't equal leadership

if your confused get a dictionary.i answered a query on why our team was so bad. and said we don't have leadership. in

anyway shape or form in this team.

no leadership in the sheds and it transpires on the ground. I didn't attack Clarke intentionly. maybe I cant write as good as others,my Clarke comments were printed after somebody wanted to know why I thought there was no leadership.i also answered why I thought Clarke couldn't and shouldn't lead.if I didn't give reasons people may not have understood

any person who writes down roman numerals and goes to the tattoo shop and says print this on me arm and finds out he has misread roman numerals is not a sharp person.then argues with half the team after Symons was rooting lsut of the month lara .then pulls out of a tour to sort out the fevmyster. is definitely not the smartest person to follow into battle lets buy a lamborgini because I have a bad back. and want to protect it ,as Watson said whod follow you

as I previously said :would you go to war with. ponting Waugh. or pup

either way I follow and love cricket. my idea of the game is opinion and if you don't like it . that's OK

go aussies

Edited August 4, 2013 by jazza

[MadAsHell 4,088]

"If you're 2-nil up..stand up, if you're 2-nil up stand up..."

That's what we've been getting from the Poms in the stands here at Old Trafford. Amusing stuff really.

Amazing to see Clarke, Rogers and Smith dig deep and post some scores. In particular the skipper. He led well. The Khawaja decision was unbelievable. I could see there was a decent gap between bat and ball on the replay walking up stairs carrying four pints back to my seat. How on earth the 3rd umpire with all the technology at his disposal could make that howler of a decision is just mind boggling.

5 wickets and 240 odd runs for the day today. Aussies toiled hard particularly the fast bowlers, Lyon tried hard but the Poms play him well. They get plenty of practice with Swann in their team....

Awesome support here in Manchester for Test cricket. We wore our footy jumpers today for day 3, a day which the home crowd provided plenty of colour in dressing up. Some real funny stuff.

Look forward to hopefully a few early wickets tomorrow so the Aussies can rebuild a lead and have the Poms in before the day is out chasing around 350 if everything goes to plan....

Agree with you there HT. Just looked up that the highest ever run chase at Old Trafford is 294, so I reckon a target of around 350 will be in the Aussies thinking.

Ideally they'll be hoping the wrap Englands innings up for no more then about 350 within the first hour to hour and a half giving us a lead in the area of 170-200. Then just go out there and bat normal through to tea and then maybe unleash for 8-10 overs after tea. Set England 350 to win off about 110-115 overs. Only a run rate of just over 3 an over would be required by England which should keep them interested which is important. If we were to set them 400 in the final day they'd never attempt it and just bat to save the match. But 350 off half the final session of Day 4 and all of Day 5 should be enough to still get them playing some shots which gives our bowlers a better chance of taking the wickets.

[jazza 1,323]

Jazza wear down Anderson and Swann as much as possible!!! Drag them down!! Then flay Bresnan and push around broad.

yes cards I think we were on that track 2 tests ago

could be working

[Macca 16,173]

Agree with you there HT. Just looked up that the highest ever run chase at Old Trafford is 294, so I reckon a target of around 350 will be in the Aussies thinking.

Ideally they'll be hoping the wrap Englands innings up for no more then about 350 within the first hour to hour and a half giving us a lead in the area of 170-200. Then just go out there and bat normal through to tea and then maybe unleash for 8-10 overs after tea. Set England 350 to win off about 110-115 overs. Only a run rate of just over 3 an over would be required by England which should keep them interested which is important. If we were to set them 400 in the final day they'd never attempt it and just bat to save the match. But 350 off half the final session of Day 4 and all of Day 5 should be enough to still get them playing some shots which gives our bowlers a better chance of taking the wickets.

We really need Lyon to get amongst them. I thought he bowled ok but he needs to mix it up a bit more. He needs to vary his pace and use the crease more. We've seen him bowl a lot better and hopefully he rediscovers his stuff for the remainder of this Test.

The major concern is that there's a big chance of rain on day 5 Clarke can't be too adventurous with a declaration just in case it doesn't rain (that's assuming we knock these 3 wickets over reasonably quickly)

If England do retain the Ashes after this Test (hope not) then it will be interesting to see what the selectors do for the final 2 Tests. I reckon Ahmed and/or Maddinson might get a call up. Smith and Agar have been added to the squad so the precedent has been set.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The Test team could be (in theory) a gun side again within 18 months and CA is flush with funds. The footy club - read any of the footy threads for the bad news!

The cricket team just needs a few star players (batsmen mainly). Our bowling stocks are looking good and I believe there are some talented young batsmen in the Shield that are worth a go. The Shield has one of the best (if not the best) systems in the world in terms of producing 'ready to go' Test players. Just because the games can't pull a crowd and is largely ignored by the general public is irrelevant. The talent is there and probably always will be.

Many of our best Test batsmen in history were not gunning it at Shield level before they debuted in the Test side. S Waugh and Border had each only made 2 first class centuries before they debuted in the Test side. 2 of our all time greats who were largely unheard of and came from relative obscurity. Right now Maddinson, Burns, Doolan and the like are unknowns, but things can change rather quickly in cricket.

On one hand you're highly critical of our current batsmen (and their abilities) and on the other hand you don't want them replaced. If you sit on your hands, nothing ever changes. I'm advocating change but done at the right time without mass sackings. Bringing one or 2 new batsman in either now or in the next series is hardly a radical step. Especially when you consider we've slipped to number 4 in the Test rankings.

have you not watched & understood what has just happened to Melbourne Macca? you sound like you don't understand the mistakes we made with our club over the last 10Yrs,,, & how we went about the youth rebuild.

they're very similar to whats happened to the test team. the hand over from the old guard, to the new (melbourne 2004 - 2010) was done badly, & so has the test team, been mishandled.

[Macca 16,173]

have you not watched & understood what has just happened to Melbourne Macca? you sound like you don't understand the mistakes we made with our club over the last 10Yrs,,, & how we went about the youth rebuild.

they're very similar to whats happened to the test team. the hand over from the old guard, to the new (melbourne 2004 - 2010) was done badly, & so has the test team, been mishandled.

What are you talking about?

Stop comparing cricket to footy and more importantly the Test side to the MFC. You are a wounded demon and like many others, you're carrying that over to everything else in your life. My advice? - always keep a large degree of separation from the footy club and make sure you have a lot of other interests. I wouldn't blame anyone for being down about the footy club but there's a lot of other things in life that can be enjoyed.

All footy clubs have youth policies. Every single one of them. Look at Geelong as a prime example. Do you ever see a footy club not participate in the National Draft? Playing a 22 year old in the Test side is vastly different to playing an 18 year old in the footy side.

What do you want to do with Hogan? Give him back? Lets just never play young players - is that your answer? You're mixing things up too much and you're not making any sense.

[dee-luded 2,958]

What are you talking about?

Stop comparing cricket to footy and more importantly the Test side to the MFC. You are a wounded demon and like many others, you're carrying that over to everything else in your life. My advice? - always keep a large degree of separation from the footy club and make sure you have a lot of other interests. I wouldn't blame anyone for being down about the footy club but there's a lot of other things in life that can be enjoyed.

All footy clubs have youth policies. Every single one of them. Look at Geelong as a prime example. Do you ever see a footy club not participate in the National Draft? Playing a 22 year old in the Test side is vastly different to playing an 18 year old in the footy side.

What do you want to do with Hogan? Give him back? Lets just never play young players - is that your answer? You're mixing things up too much and you're not making any sense.

its gots nothing to do with the game, it's about human behavior & the environment in which to learn & adapt under pressure. (see the test team over the last couple of years)

..... I'm obviously talking about stuff you don't comprehend... all our ways thru life are different, & some learn things others do not, & vice versa.

I can tell your mind is not wired to comprehend the psychology of peoples inner workings, motivations, learning abilities, learning difficulties, healthy environments, etc. but you know the mechanics of cricket stroke making & scoring runs, etc.

...... so what worked for you... how many talented young players that played alongside you, couldn't make things work for themselves? did you ever wonder that your club environment was suitable to you,,, but maybe Not to some others, & that this may have been to their downfall? the wrong environment for them to grow in...

this is why teams that have strong leadership, end up with good young people coming... they then carry on the traditions & cultures of success.

..... when all this culture is ripped apart you see the total breakdown of the culture & no success follows. degradation is the outcome.

we did this to our indigenous peoples... & they have been, & are, really struggling to get back any sort of winning community ways.

this also happened at Melbourne.

[dee-luded 2,958]

What are you talking about?

Stop comparing cricket to footy and more importantly the Test side to the MFC. You are a wounded demon and like many others, you're carrying that over to everything else in your life. My advice? - always keep a large degree of separation from the footy club and make sure you have a lot of other interests. I wouldn't blame anyone for being down about the footy club but there's a lot of other things in life that can be enjoyed.

All footy clubs have youth policies. Every single one of them. Look at Geelong as a prime example. Do you ever see a footy club not participate in the National Draft? Playing a 22 year old in the Test side is vastly different to playing an 18 year old in the footy side.

What do you want to do with Hogan? Give him back? Lets just never play young players - is that your answer? You're mixing things up too much and you're not making any sense.

you don't get it, you just don't get what I'm saying, & then you rant on misrepresenting what I'm saying, because you have no comprehension of what I'm getting at.. the last line says it all to me.. give Hogan back, are you mad?

this is why the rotten old culture had to be smashed, to begin a new healthy culture, where young people learn to learn, thrive, & grow. and become good clubmen with no derision.

I not capable of explaining my point to you any better, thru text, than I have...

..... as you said in another post re cricket, & I'll have to agree with you, we just disagree on this... I Know what I know, & you know what you know.

as frustrating as it is, I don't know how to show you... what this is all about.

..... the test team, you can see the changes already, with Boof & the old guard returning to the test teams environs, they're starting immediately to play better.

Edited August 4, 2013 by dee-luded

[Macca 16,173]

Warner is opening and with a bit of unsightly weather about, Clarke may be looking at a declaration at the tea break. A lot is going to depend on how big our lead is. 350 should be enough but we'd have to score 190 in a session plus half an hour. It's possible.

[Biffen 12,330]

The weather might save us from 5-0.

It took us 140 overs to get them out then.

Thats more than 1.5 days.

Struggle street i reckon but as they say,

"tis a funny game".

[MadAsHell 4,088]

We really need Lyon to get amongst them. I thought he bowled ok but he needs to mix it up a bit more. He needs to vary his pace and use the crease more. We've seen him bowl a lot better and hopefully he rediscovers his stuff for the remainder of this Test.

You're spot on there Macca. Lyon needs to learn to mix his bowling up. Below I've attached an article from Ashley Mallett on Lyon earlier this year which still reins true today.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/history-lesson-for-lyon-20130111-2cl5h.html

Mallett makes reference to the fact that he to had to learn that in order to be succesful, he needed to vary his delieveries to get more of a dip. Clarrie Grimmet taught Mallet that, below's from the above article.

'I took a train from Perth to Adelaide and walked to his home at Firle. I found him sawing a branch from the top of an old peppercorn tree. Suddenly this 76-year-old leprechaun armed with a Jack Hobbs-autographed cricket bat sprang to the ground. Beside him was a ball in a sock hanging from the branch of the tree. He handed me the bat and said: ''There you are, son. Let's have a look at your batting?'' I baulked at the offer, but the old man was firm: ''Ah, I taught a young man to back-cut on the ship to England in 1930 … and Don Bradman was a fast learner!''

I played one ball and Grimmett said, ''Right, that's enough of your batting.'' We then ventured to the full-sized turf wicket he had in his spacious backyard. Clarrie wore no pads; in fact no protection whatsoever. Wearing black horn-rimmed glasses, he faced up to my first ball. It met the middle of his bat and he called me down the wicket: ''Give up bowling and become a batsman … I could play you blindfolded.'' That really hit home. I was hurt, but I was determined to show him I could bowl. ''Mr Grimmett, I've got a handkerchief in my pocket.'' He placed the handkerchief over his glasses. My second ball hit the middle of his bat and when he stopped laughing, he gave me the best bowling lesson of my life.

He talked about the need to achieve a dipping arc and how easy it was for a batsman if he was looking down on the ball. That is always the case when a delivery arrives at a trajectory below the level of the batsman's eye for most of its flight path. Any reasonable batsman would know almost immediately whether the ball is a half-volley or a ball slightly short of a length.'

I hope Lyon can bowl well in the 2nd dig and take us towards victory. But sadly like Grimmet facing Mallet, I get the impression the English batsmen could face Lyon blindfolded.

Lunch Day 4.

Australia 1st Innings 7/527dec

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

G. Swann 5/159 (43)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

England 1st Innings 368

K. Pietersen 113

A. Cook 62

P. Siddle 4/63 (29.3)

M. Starc 3/76 (27)

Australia 2nd Innings 1/24

D. Warner 12*

C. Rogers 12

S. Broad 1/10 (3)

G. Swann 0/1 (1)

I reckon we'll bat for awhile and not go over the top funnily enough. Can see us declaring at 190 allowing us 10 overs at England tonight. Would set them 350 to win off 100 overs at 3.5 an over. Certainly keeping them interested. The weather is a concern, but at the same time I don;t think they should factor it in to much. You don't want to declare to early, have no rain and then leave England with a cofortable chase of about 280 with 4 sessions. Will be interesting to see how they play it?

Edited August 4, 2013 by Tall Defence

[45HG 1,539]

The weather might save us from 5-0.

It took us 140 overs to get them out then.

Thats more than 1.5 days.

Struggle street i reckon but as they say,

"tis a funny game".

I can't see how the weather is likely to prevent England getting the win here.

Indeed, if it stays away, we're likely 15 runs shy of a 2-1 lead.

[Macca 16,173]

You're spot on there Macca. Lyon needs to learn to mix his bowling up. Below I've attached an article from Ashley Mallett on Lyon earlier this year which still reins true today.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/history-lesson-for-lyon-20130111-2cl5h.html

Mallett makes reference to the fact that he to had to learn that in order to be succesful, he needed to vary his delieveries to get more of a dip. Clarrie Grimmet taught Mallet that, below's from the above article.

'I took a train from Perth to Adelaide and walked to his home at Firle. I found him sawing a branch from the top of an old peppercorn tree. Suddenly this 76-year-old leprechaun armed with a Jack Hobbs-autographed cricket bat sprang to the ground. Beside him was a ball in a sock hanging from the branch of the tree. He handed me the bat and said: ''There you are, son. Let's have a look at your batting?'' I baulked at the offer, but the old man was firm: ''Ah, I taught a young man to back-cut on the ship to England in 1930 … and Don Bradman was a fast learner!''

I played one ball and Grimmett said, ''Right, that's enough of your batting.'' We then ventured to the full-sized turf wicket he had in his spacious backyard. Clarrie wore no pads; in fact no protection whatsoever. Wearing black horn-rimmed glasses, he faced up to my first ball. It met the middle of his bat and he called me down the wicket: ''Give up bowling and become a batsman … I could play you blindfolded.'' That really hit home. I was hurt, but I was determined to show him I could bowl. ''Mr Grimmett, I've got a handkerchief in my pocket.'' He placed the handkerchief over his glasses. My second ball hit the middle of his bat and when he stopped laughing, he gave me the best bowling lesson of my life.

He talked about the need to achieve a dipping arc and how easy it was for a batsman if he was looking down on the ball. That is always the case when a delivery arrives at a trajectory below the level of the batsman's eye for most of its flight path. Any reasonable batsman would know almost immediately whether the ball is a half-volley or a ball slightly short of a length.'

I hope Lyon can bowl well in the 2nd dig and take us towards victory. But sadly like Grimmet facing Mallet, I get the impression the English batsmen could face Lyon blindfolded.

Lunch Day 4.

Australia 1st Innings 7/527dec

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

G. Swann 5/159 (43)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

England 1st Innings 368

K. Pietersen 113

A. Cook 62

P. Siddle 4/63 (29.3)

M. Starc 3/76 (27)

Australia 2nd Innings 1/24

D. Warner 12*

C. Rogers 12

S. Broad 1/10 (3)

G. Swann 0/1 (1)

I reckon we'll bat for awhile and not go over the top funnily enough. Can see us declaring at 190 allowing us 10 overs at England tonight. Would set them 350 to win off 100 overs at 3.5 an over. Certainly keeping them interested. The weather is a concern, but at the same time I don;t think they should factor it in to much. You don't want to declare to early, have no rain and then leave England with a cofortable chase of about 280 with 4 sessions. Will be interesting to see how they play it?

Excellent article there, TD. I see the Aussies have got Warnie involved a bit over there which can only be a plus for our spinners. Once heard Richie Benaud say that if he could have his career over again, he'd have Warne as his coach. That's high praise from Richie.

Grimmett must have been some sort of bowler. In his last 3 Tests in South Africa he took 33 wickets at the age of 44! Amazing effort.

Here's a little snippet of Clarrie's action from nearly 90 years ago.

England's tactics might be to slow things down and set a reasonably defensive field (which is their right of course) Just got a feeling that Clarke will set a sporting declaration. The rain is imminent (probably more so tomorrow) and obviously, we have to win this.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Warner is opening and with a bit of unsightly weather about, Clarke may be looking at a declaration at the tea break. A lot is going to depend on how big our lead is. 350 should be enough but we'd have to score 190 in a session plus half an hour. It's possible.

they look to be playing it with almost one dayer tactics. but is Clark fit & able to bat?

interesting ploy to get the lefties up front, followed by the righties. this doesn't sound like clark styled thinking.

rain apparently on the way... lets hope some luck comes our way to help even things up.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Excellent article there, TD. I see the Aussies have got Warnie involved a bit over there which can only be a plus for our spinners. Once heard Richie Benaud say that if he could have his career over again, he'd have Warne as his coach. That's high praise from Richie.

Grimmett must have been some sort of bowler. In his last 3 Tests in South Africa he took 33 wickets at the age of 44! Amazing effort.

Here's a little snippet of Clarrie's action from nearly 90 years ago.

England's tactics might be to slow things down and set a reasonably defensive field (which is their right of course) Just got a feeling that Clarke will set a sporting declaration. The rain is imminent (probably more so tomorrow) and obviously, we have to win this.

Nice footage there Macca. An interesting action from Grimmett I must say, seems a more round arm action then a lot of leg spinners, but obviously it worked!

Hope the rain stays away, as we look set for another great finish otherwise.

If they do take the rain into calculations as if as you say, there's almost certainly going to be rain about tomorrow, might we see a very early declaration and Australia simply set England a ground record run chase of 295 which would see a declaration probably 20 minutes out from tea?

[Macca 16,173]

Nice footage there Macca. An interesting action from Grimmett I must say, seems a more round arm action then a lot of leg spinners, but obviously it worked!

Hope the rain stays away, as we look set for another great finish otherwise.

If they do take the rain into calculations as if as you say, there's almost certainly going to be rain about tomorrow, might we see a very early declaration and Australia simply set England a ground record run chase of 295 which would see a declaration probably 20 minutes out from tea?

Yeah, Clarke is a bit of a gambler. I reckon he'll bet against history being made so setting 300 - 320 might be enough.

Just on Clarke's captaincy, his bowling changes are top notch. Doesn't let the batsmen settle and he doesn't let the game drift away too much. Having a decent 5th bowler helps and if we only had 4 bowlers, it would be a much more difficult task to rotate them. He's not afraid to ring the changes early in an innings and he uses Siddle very intelligently.

As for Grimmett, his action is a little round arm but although it's hard to pick up, he gets into a nice side on position before his action opens up. Of course, Clarrie and Bill O'Reilly were bowling flippers, zooters, wrong-uns and all sorts of different deliveries way before many thought Warnie invented them. They must have been a great combination. From what I've read, O'Reilly bowled at lively pace for a leggie.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Touching back on the subject of young Australian batsmen, this article caught my eye and I find it both concerning and frustrating.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2013/content/current/story/658449.html

I hope CA are doing everything to convince this kid that there's a future for him with Australia, and probably sooner then when he could carve one out with England. How they could allow a talent like this kid to simply walk to England would be criminal. We don't have many batsmen in the country at the moment under 25 who average over 40 in FC cricket apart from Maddinson. Robson's scored 993 runs at an average of 62.06 in County Cricket this season. I just hope the right people are doing everything they can to ensure we have the best players possible playing for Australia.

And back onto the current match. I'd actually like to see Autstralia declare once we get to 151 and set England 311 to win, the same amount we had to chase at Trent Bridge Bit of psychological warfare. Pretty much saying to Cook that we weren't good enough to chase that down and we don't think you guys are either!

[MadAsHell 4,088]

And due to the rain we're at an early Tea on Day 4.

Australia 1st Innings 7/527dec

M. Clarke 187

S. Smith 89

G. Swann 5/159 (43)

S. Broad 1/108 (33)

England 1st Innings 368

K. Pietersen 113

A. Cook 62

P. Siddle 4/63 (29.3)

M. Starc 3/76 (27)

Australia 2nd Innings 5/137

D. Warner 41

U. Khawaja 24

T. Bresnan 2/25 (6)

S. Broad 1/30 (7)

Lead is currently 296 so aleady England would need a record score at Old Trafford to win this match as the previous best there is 294. As I said in my other post when the rain stops I'd like to see us add as little as another 14 runs and then set England that 311 to win.

Currently 38 overs left today as no overs have been lost to rain yet, but that could change. Then 90 overs tomorrow, but allow for rain and there's only a maximum of 128 overs left in this match. We very well could loose this match, but if we do it will be because we've chased the win and I'll cop that if need be. We've outplayed England for 3.5 days and the players have redeemed themselves somewhat from the disaster that was Lords.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Tall Defence

[Whispering_Jack 27,996]

Declaration with a lead of 350 is my tip.

[Macca 16,173]

I believe the days play has to finish at 6.30pm (local time) so the Aussies might have to race through their overs to get them all in. It's a flaw in the rules that one team can slow the over rate to their own advantage.

Whilst I can understand any team slowing down the over rate, the authorities should clean up the rule and/or the umpires should be instructed to hurry up a team. We should always see at least 90 overs in a day unless there is some major time lost.

We lead by 311 TD

My tip is a 330 lead before we see the declaration.