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[Whispering_Jack 28,846]

Michael Vaughan forecasts a 5-0 annihilation Geoffrey Boycott and other English greats blast tourists

Test Match Special Podcast ... England fall again to Johnson (Geoffrey says the Ashes are gone)

The English equivalent of MFCSS. I'm hoping the English team is following their media pack because that sort of stuff tends to become self-fulfilling. Their fighting spirit (or lack thereof) is so different to the South Africans who staved off defeat in a test last year by holding out our bowling attack for a whole day.

There have been many disappointments among the English in this series to date but Graeme Swann would have to be the biggest. From deadly spin bowler to pie chucker in the space of a few months.

The opposite can be said of Mitchell Johnson who has found his direction and an extra yard at a time when, but for injuries to a myriad of other pace bowlers, he would surely be on the scrap heap.

Did I really hear Hoggie on radio discussing the possibility of us resting a pace bowler for Perth and mentioning Johnson as one of them?

Get outta here!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Michael Vaughan forecasts a 5-0 annihilation Geoffrey Boycott and other English greats blast tourists

Test Match Special Podcast ... England fall again to Johnson (Geoffrey says the Ashes are gone)

Beautiful.

I cant find the article pre Series but it was a Michael Vaughan gloat.

Ahhh hubris is a wonderful thing!!

[Macca 16,556]

What a day of cricket yesterday, was absolutely unbelievable!

Can't believe the turn around in Mitch Johnson's fortunes, 12 months ago I never wanted to see this guy in the whites again, now look at him!

Aussies to bat for 45-50 minutes this morning and declare setting England somewhere close to 600 to win as Macca suggested. And with Perth coming up their batsmen must be frighteneted about what to expect from Mitch there!

As for what changes England can make from here on to try anda salvage anything???

I'd expect Bresnan will be rushed back for Perth at the expense of Monty, Prior is in all sorts of bother and hasn't made decent runs in his last 9 tests, they may look to bring Bairstow in for him and Gary Ballance may also come in for Stokes to strengthen their batting. And as many have said, Bell should bat at three and Root should go back down the order to 5 or 6.

This makes the 5th test match in a row we've had the better of England, despite the fact we lost at Durham. When we think about it, apart from the Lords test match it's amazing the turn around this team has had since Lehman came in.

Good summary, TD.

Still early doors but this feels a lot like the '89 series. Of course, we won that series 4-0 and had the better of the 2 other drawn Tests. I believe that '89 team was initially dubbed "The worst ever" to tour England as well!

Whether we can dominate the rest of this series remains to be seen but the signs are good. To be honest, I'm still coming to terms with the turnaround. Let's hope that Roosey can have the same sort of impact at the Demons hey! (as well as seeing a number of our players starting to realise their potential)

We've already snagged one of their best bats in the 2nd innings (Cook) I'd like to see Lyon pick up 3 or 4 wickets in this innings. Smith might get a few overs.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Good summary, TD.

Still early doors but this feels a lot like the '89 series. Of course, we won that series 4-0 and had the better of the 2 other drawn Tests. I believe that '89 team was initially dubbed "The worst ever" to tour England as well!

Whether we can dominate the rest of this series remains to be seen but the signs are good. To be honest, I'm still coming to terms with the turnaround. Let's hope that Roosey can have the same sort of impact at the Demons hey! (as well as seeing a number of our players starting to realise their potential)

We've already snagged one of their best bats in the 2nd innings (Cook) I'd like to see Lyon pick up 3 or 4 wickets in this innings. Smith might get a few overs.

We've (MFC) been off like a dead fish in the sun for 45 years.

Roos will need some time to get us up like this. expect much up & down the next 2 years imo. but not bottom 3. we will climb slowly.

[Macca 16,556]

We've (MFC) been off like a dead fish in the sun for 45 years.

Roos will need some time to get us up like this. expect much up & down the next 2 years imo. but not bottom 3. we will climb slowly.

The Demons getting to 9 or 10 wins next year might be seen as a monumental improvement. That's where I could see the similarities. I definitely wasn't thinking in terms of finals (yet!) It's the proportional level of improvement where comparisons could be made.

[titan_uranus 24,480]

Crazy, crazy cricket.

We still have our work ahead of us taking the remaining 8 wickets, but with 5 sessions to go, there should be enough time. Taking a 2-0 lead is huge, and probably not something anyone expected. We'll need some more of Johnson's firebolts, as clearly England can't play that pace well.

England will have to look at dropping Prior and/or Swann for Perth. Panesar outbowled Swann in this Test, so there might be a change-up there. They'll also have to bring Bresnan in, as well as getting another batsman in the side instead of Stokes, who isn't good enough.

[jazza 1,323]

wrong again RHINO

I don't hate for starters

good leadership by Clarke mmmmm maybe

but where was that 3 months ago? no appearance your worship

ive also noticed his back injury never appears when were winning or he is making runs

good to see the first all round performance by the team for a few years

btw,ball back in your court

[dee-luded 2,958]

The Demons getting to 9 or 10 wins next year might be seen as a monumental improvement. That's where I could see the similarities. I definitely wasn't thinking in terms of finals (yet!) It's the proportional level of improvement where comparisons could be made.

yep. anything between 6 wins & 10 imo.

but my comment isn't against you, but rather in hope that we as supporters don't expect too much from our team next year, & then attack the new broom like a mangy dog.

we should just see next year as a learning year, trying to condense our talent into Our new ways & culture. & then any wins & rise above the bottom places as a bonus on the learnings.

[dee-luded 2,958]

wrong again RHINO

I don't hate for starters

good leadership by Clarke mmmmm maybe

but where was that 3 months ago? no appearance your worship

ive also noticed his back injury never appears when were winning or he is making runs

good to see the first all round performance by the team for a few years

btw,ball back in your court

clark has always been a good tactician, & skilled player & fieldsmen. no question. but Not a natural Leader. he's had to learn, & Boof the master teacher.

now the off field men have taken back control from the ACB & the idiotic methods that destroyed what was left of our aggressive winning culture, the players look to be wearing inner smiles, instead of fear clouding their subconscious minds.

this is a Team; now, & is playing with the old Aussie venom that great Aussie sides contain. we can only get better from here as a test side. & this Is the right environment to slowly bring in more talent as required.

Edited December 8, 2013 by dee-luded

[Macca 16,556]

yep. anything between 6 wins & 10 imo.

but my comment isn't against you, but rather in hope that we as supporters don't expect too much from our team next year, & then attack the new broom like a mangy dog.

we should just see next year as a learning year, trying to condense our talent into Our new ways & culture. & then any wins & rise above the bottom places as a bonus on the learnings.

Fair enough.

If Lehmann lifts the team out of the doldrums and takes the team to the top like Bobby Simpson did, he'll have done a great job. Not sure we reached no.1** status in the World under Simmo but we went damn close. Regardless, Bobby certainly took the team to the top (as a manner of phrase)

It's going to take some doing to catch South Africa or even come close to their status. For starters, we'd have to win the series over there next Feb/March ... and that's just to start making some inroads with regards to the rankings*. They'll be well ready for us! That upcoming series should be a terrific one, all the same.

... but first of all, we need to clinch this Test and this series (and not lose any of the remaining Tests in the process)

* The ICC Rankings 'Predictor'

**Edit: Bobby Simpson did, in fact, take us to the no.1 status in the World ... Bobby Simpson's Coaching Career

Australia then took a 3–1 home Ashes series victory in 1994–95, and then a finally reclaimed the Frank Worrell Trophy with a 2–1 series win in the Caribbean in mid 1995, thereby establishing itself as the leading Test team in the world^. After the match, Taylor took the winning cricket ball to Simpson, who at the time was recovering from a blood clot in his leg.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Macca

[dee-luded 2,958]

Fair enough.

If Lehmann lifts the team out of the doldrums and takes the team to the top like Bobby Simpson did, he'll have done a great job. Not sure we reached no.1 under Simmo but we went damn close, regardless. Bobby certainly took the team to the top (as a manner of phrase)

It's going to take some doing to catch South Africa* or even come close to their status. For starters, we'd have to win the series over there next Feb/March ... and that's just to start making some inroads with regards to the rankings*. They'll be well ready for us! That upcoming series should be a terrific one, all the same.

... but first of all, we need to clinch this Test and this series (and not lose any of the remaining Tests in the process)

* The ICC Rankings 'Predictor'

We just need one wicket right now ... "work for one" is a phrase used in cricket at all levels.

I think Simmo reinstated some team disciplines & a hard work ethic back into the team ethos, starting with being the best fielding team, & built up from there. so he started turning us into a hard team to beat first, before we grew the talent base.

So the team pride became restored through their great fielding initially. through doing honest hard dirty sweaty work, built the culture back up. they looked for elite team & individual performance, from fielding & up.

I think our bowlers will need a rest, some. so your rebuilding may start with who are ready to take a step. a couple of batsmen to travel, & a couple of quicks. it may even start after Perth?

It may even start in Perth with Faulkner for a Smith/Lyon?

[dee-luded 2,958]

that Man again, Mr Siddle !!! partnership breaker.

[daisycutter 29,168]

and there goes no. 4 just before tea

great timing

[P-man 13,366]

At least they look like they might bat the day out.

This has been pathetic stuff from the poms thus far and it's unlikely to get any easier for them at the WACA. Mitch might kill one of them on that deck.

His spell yesterday is some of the best fast bowling I've ever seen. A candidate for the best.

[Macca 16,556]

I think Simmo reinstated some team disciplines & a hard work ethic back into the team ethos, starting with being the best fielding team, & built up from there. so he started turning us into a hard team to beat first, before we grew the talent base.

So the team pride became restored through their great fielding initially. through doing honest hard dirty sweaty work, built the culture back up. they looked for elite team & individual performance, from fielding & up.

I think our bowlers will need a rest, some. so your rebuilding may start with who are ready to take a step. a couple of batsmen to travel, & a couple of quicks. it may even start after Perth?

It may even start in Perth with Faulkner for a Smith/Lyon?

Happy to go with the old adage "Never change a winning side" dl. It's been so long since we've had some real stability in the make-up of the side. Winning does change the thinking.

If England can keep us out in the field well into tomorrow, one of the quicks might become doubtful for Perth. Clarke would be aware of that however, and will no doubt use the fast bowlers with that in mind.

We get another one soon and the rest might fall sooner rather than later.

[jazza 1,323]

got the distinct feeling mr cook didn't want to get his body behind the ball

[dee-luded 2,958]

Happy to go with the old adage "Never change a winning side" dl. It's been so long since we've had some real stability in the make-up of the side. Winning does change the thinking.

If England can keep us out in the field well into tomorrow, one of the quicks might become doubtful for Perth. Clarke would be aware of that however, and will no doubt use the fast bowlers with that in mind.

We get another one soon and the rest might fall sooner rather than later.

absolutely, but I wouldn't be against some bowlers having a rest after the Ashes series. I'd like to see Pato or Cummins, & Faulkner, over in Sth Africa.

or 4 quicks for the WACA (faulkner)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

wrong again RHINO

I don't hate for starters

good leadership by Clarke mmmmm maybe

but where was that 3 months ago? no appearance your worship

ive also noticed his back injury never appears when were winning or he is making runs

good to see the first all round performance by the team for a few years

btw,ball back in your court

It's a pity you are a poor return of serve.

He had his back injury throughout England last winter when making runs.

BTW, I getcha, when the teams not doing well it's the captains fault. When the team is doing well its ummmm......

So how did you fill in your time when Clarke and Haddin were taking England apart withe bat. Captain and VC to steady the ship...that's LEADERSHIP.

Keep going jazza....I like a person who when he puts his foot in a fox trap works hard to get the other one in there as well.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Rhino Richards

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Crazy, crazy

England will have to look at dropping Prior and/or Swann for Perth. Panesar outbowled Swann in this Test, so there might be a change-up there. They'll also have to bring Bresnan in, as well as getting another batsman in the side instead of Stokes, who isn't good enough.

Both Prior and Swann are burning up credits at the moment but Swann is possibly there best spinner since Underwood. I don't think they will throw the baby out with bath water. And is splitting hairs with Panesar over Swann ATM. Bresnan will come in for Stokes but that means batting Prior at 6. Ouch....not good. Will they play 4 quicks in Perth and no spinner? Hmmmm.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Weather permitting we should go 2-0. Hope the bowlers are fresh for Perth...

[Robbie57 2,001]

This may be worth a thread on its own but can we get rid of Bradshaw from the commentary. He drives me nuts saying the obvious and the down right wrong. At least chappelli can blame his age for his failings, his anti sledging rant in which he claimed it didn't happen on his watch was breath taking.

Anyone else want Bradshaw removed?

[MadAsHell 4,207]

This may be worth a thread on its own but can we get rid of Bradshaw from the commentary. He drives me nuts saying the obvious and the down right wrong. At least chappelli can blame his age for his failings, his anti sledging rant in which he claimed it didn't happen on his watch was breath taking.

Anyone else want Bradshaw removed?

Yeah I'm not a fan either, I'm missing the days of Benaud, Lawry, Chappeli and even Greig more then I thought I would.

Why they didn't go hard for either Fleming or Blewett from Foxtel I have no idea. Both very good commentators, and Fleming is a crack up to go with it!

[P-man 13,366]

I agree Rhino, swapping Panesar for Swann would be an overreaction. The old "class is permanent" applies. Swann is potentially as damaging a player as they have.

I wasn't all that impressed by Stokes, but Prior at 6 doesn't look great. It's fortunate for them that he has found a bit of confidence with the bat, finally. Maybe Bresnan and Bairstow for Stokes and Panesar. Admittedly pretty rough on Monty.

[P-man 13,366]

This may be worth a thread on its own but can we get rid of Bradshaw from the commentary. He drives me nuts saying the obvious and the down right wrong. At least chappelli can blame his age for his failings, his anti sledging rant in which he claimed it didn't happen on his watch was breath taking.

Anyone else want Bradshaw removed?

Got no issue with Brayshaw. It's Slater that gives me the ultimate shits.

[Whispering_Jack 28,846]

This may be worth a thread on its own but can we get rid of Bradshaw from the commentary. He drives me nuts saying the obvious and the down right wrong. At least chappelli can blame his age for his failings, his anti sledging rant in which he claimed it didn't happen on his watch was breath taking.

Anyone else want Bradshaw removed?

Isn't that Brayshaw?