Light at the end of the tunnel.

[demondomination 27]

Playing football on Sunday's and yr 12 has not allowed me to get to as many games as I would have liked this yr. After hearing Andy D'd threats during the week I thought I should attend on Monday and support the club. I was expecting a close game, but Melbourne's performance far exceeded my expectations.

Firstly, are game plan looked the goods! We played direct football. We rebounded the ball from defence through the guts and were direct. This was a big tick for Dean Bailey. Unfortunatley we do not have the forward line, or the footskills to carry this plan out YET. However if we persist with this game plan we will gain the rewards in the years to come.

Secondly, our defence was sensational. If Garland and Warnock can play that well for the rest of their careers we will have solved a problem that has been around my entire life. Our backline has always been second rate whether it was an old Ingerson, Nicholson, or Caroll we have never had a great backline. Furthermore if you look at the premiership teams over the past decade the likes of Barry, Glass, Scarlett, Michael, Fletcher have been the fullbacks, and have been vital parts of the lineup. Thus, the development of these two players will be essential if Melbourne is to become as decent team. The thought of playing rivers and frawley on the flanks is exciting as that really is their natural positions.

Thirdly, We have the nucleus of a solid midfield. Mclean and Jones will play 250 games for the club and we can bulid a midfield around these boys. Sylvia and Bate need to get a full preseason in them so they can join these two boys, along with moloney and we have a TOUGH HARD midfield. Paul Johnson should also be a player, however we need to find a 2nd ruckman as White ages.(Natainui/Warnock should fill the void)

The negatives:

Our forward line needs improvement. Neitz is gone, and Robbo is going to be gone for a while. Yze wont be around long either. Wona looks good;), and we should play Davey closer to goal. Miller is also finding some form, however we are still 1/2 forwards away from having a decent forward line. Newton needs to progress, and others need to step up.

Our footskills are abismal. Green never use to miss a set shot. Bruce, Moloney, and Wheatley turned the ball over to many times. And I hope Mortons performance was a one off, because if he turns is over like he did on Monday for the rest of his career my heart will burn.

All in all, Melbourne have the nucleus. Warnock, Garland, Mclean, Sylvia, Bate, Jones, Moloney, Bartram, Morton, Dunn, PJ are all tough and hard players. You can't teach that.

[deanox 9,915]

i agree. a key forward, a back up ruckman, and some foot skills. add in a solid dose of reducing brain fades (ie man up when the opposition has a mark on the 50, zone into space, learn to kick in), and we are not too far off.

[rpfc 28,417]

McLean, Moloney, and Jones are tough, clearance players that I want to form the heart of our midfield. But they are one paced and throwing Bate in there doesn't help. Bate should be a HFF/CHF, frankly I don't think Miller can be a CHF but maybe they can split the duties like they are doing now.

Getting some pace in midfield is what we need - Davey has to stay on a wing and Buckley must be groomed for that otherwise the next draft should be skimmed for quick players with good hands and feet.

[Rogue 585]

I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's almost a half-full/half-empty thing at the moment, though. For there to be light at the end of the tunnel we need to bank on significant improvement from almost all our young guys, particularly the taller ones.

However, I think a major oversight in your summary is our pace - we might have a TOUGH HARD midfield with that team, but there's not much foot speed there.

I'm not sure we can say we have 'the nucleus' when we're '1/2 forwards away', particularly as you've mentioned Miller as finding some form, and Newton needing to progress. Given that a 2 KPP forward line seems the norm, we're a long way off!

PS. Frawley as a flanker seems to be an idea getting momentum - anyone else out there that doesn't see that he's a natural fit for a HBF?

[deanox 9,915]

I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's almost a half-full/half-empty thing at the moment, though. For there to be light at the end of the tunnel we need to bank on significant improvement from almost all our young guys, particularly the taller ones.

However, I think a major oversight in your summary is our pace - we might have a TOUGH HARD midfield with that team, but there's not much foot speed there.

I'm not sure we can say we have 'the nucleus' when we're '1/2 forwards away', particularly as you've mentioned Miller as finding some form, and Newton needing to progress. Given that a 2 KPP forward line seems the norm, we're a long way off!

PS. Frawley as a flanker seems to be an idea getting momentum - anyone else out there that doesn't see that he's a natural fit for a HBF?

there is not much foot speed but i dont think thats a prob. we look slow when we are flat footed and not moving the ball quickly, but when we are handballing to running players we dont look slow. most of our mids are capable of running hard enoguh to put pressure on when chasing opposition ball carriers with the exception of brock, who looks very slow in these situations. the excepts are going to be when chasing the alwyn daveys of the world as we wont get near them, but few will.

i think foot speed is overated, especially if you know how to use the ball and the skills are spot on. it will be interesting to see us against the doggies. we were slow last year, but beat them then.

[Little Goffy 14,542]

Davey is an obvious speedster and creater in the midfield, now that he appears to have gathered some form there.

Buckley is quick, but very much wait and see.

Petterd wasn't too slow, from memory, and he'll be available again soon.

Morton can duck and weave surprisingly well and give himself space. At the moment he seems to not quite believe that he's actually got that space and is rushing his kicks a bit.

CJ isn't a slow guy, but not super-fast or anything. we'll see how his return to the senior line up goes from next week, given the comments that he is now playing with an extra level of maturity and commitment.

We're really hoping for something from Newton once he's back from his injury issues. Miller can keep on being the 'new and somewhat improved' brand of Miller but it's not going to build a forward line. Dunn may be a forward again, as he was for his first season.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

i think foot speed is overated, especially if you know how to use the ball and the skills are spot on. it will be interesting to see us against the doggies. we were slow last year, but beat them then.

What happens when you are slow and you dont have the ball and the opposition does?

[Jarka 767]

i agree. a key forward, a back up ruckman, and some foot skills. add in a solid dose of reducing brain fades (ie man up when the opposition has a mark on the 50, zone into space, learn to kick in), and we are not too far off.

Key forward you say? We have Newton and Zomer! Our search is over!

[Rogue 585]

i think foot speed is overated, especially if you know how to use the ball and the skills are spot on. it will be interesting to see us against the doggies. we were slow last year, but beat them then.

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we don't need to inject pace.

demondomination has Davey marked down as a forward, but our midfield is slow and thus Davey's used up the ground.

I imagine our lack of pace helped Ward play as many games as he did last year.

PS. Davey played one of his best games of the year vs WB last year, didn't he?

[sylvinator 96]

We still have plenty of holes:

1) Ruckman to replace Neitz (Naita, Warnock???)

2) Fast outsider midfielder to finish off the work of Jones, McLean, Valenti, Moloney etc

3) Running defender--- Birchall, Jakey King, or Gram type...

4) Goal kicking forwards! Maric will help, but a big strong forward needs to be found ASAP because even if we draft one this year, he'll take 2-3 years before he can start stamping himself on matches.

Mitch Clarke looks like one of the most talented young forwards i'v seen, and he's been in the system 3 yrs now n still is too lightly framed to make an impact. key forwards r hard to find and take time.

Maybe if we could lure a guy like Mitch Thorp or Beau Dowler could be go

[sylvinator 96]

We still have plenty of holes:

1) Ruckman to replace Neitz (Naita, Warnock???)

2) Fast outsider midfielder to finish off the work of Jones, McLean, Valenti, Moloney etc

3) Running defender--- Birchall, Jakey King, or Gram type...

4) Goal kicking forwards! Maric will help, but a big strong forward needs to be found ASAP because even if we draft one this year, he'll take 2-3 years before he can start stamping himself on matches.

Mitch Clarke looks like one of the most talented young forwards i'v seen, and he's been in the system 3 yrs now n still is too lightly framed to make an impact. key forwards r hard to find and take time.

Maybe if we could lure a guy like Mitch Thorp or Beau Dowler could be go

btw i meant ruckman to replace white

[deanox 9,915]

What happens when you are slow and you dont have the ball and the opposition does?

that happened a couple of times and we struggled. it is bad when the opposition has a lot of space to run onto, ie when rebounding. it means that the slower midfielders need to make sure they use the ball. it also means defenders who have pushed up in the attack need to be ready to push back even harder. it is not as big a problem in general play because you have numbers both in front and behind the ball, which means eventually the opposition ball carrier runs into you and you can pressure them, provided you can tackle when they get there. it also requires everyone to man up to stop the quick ball movement.

yes you need pace, but if you think everyone needs to be quicker than the opposition then you need a different midfield completey. we need to rely on manning up and working hard backwards to block space.

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we don't need to inject pace.

demondomination has Davey marked down as a forward, but our midfield is slow and thus Davey's used up the ground.

I imagine our lack of pace helped Ward play as many games as he did last year.

PS. Davey played one of his best games of the year vs WB last year, didn't he?

i agree we do need some pace, but what i am saying is i dont think it the most important attribute we need to work on. i think a successful marking forward is much more important.

you have 3 mids in the centre. 2 wings, and 2 flankers. thats 7 players. plus 2 on the bench say. thats 9, whi are you standard midfielders. yes others will play there but they will cycle through the forward or back pocket, or are utilities.

jones, mclean, junior, molony arent fast. but buckley, davey, cj, bell, and a couple of others are reasonably paced. what we dont have, is a fast inside midfielder. mclean and jones et al can win all the ball they want. but none of them can get the ball and burst out like judd or similar ilk can. i know thats asking a lot, but we dont have many players capable of playing both roles, and i think thats what makes us look slow.

[rpfc 28,417]

Key forward you say? We have Newton and Zomer! Our search is over!

You know what they say about sarcasm...

The forward line is the real worry in my book with only Wonaeamirri and Bate showing that they can excel in their positions. Miller and Sylvia continue to tease and Green has only a handful of years left. Morton, in my belief, should be groomed for CHF but that is no fait accompli and the holes are far from being filled.

Prospective fwds: Newton, Maric, Zomer and Dunn. That list does not inspire confidence but if I was to pick the fwd line going into 2009 it would be this: Newton, Bate, Sylvia. Morton, Miller, Wonaeamirri. (Green to replace Newton if not traded)

That is not a great fwd line at all, full of potential but not much else.

[Rogue 585]

yes you need pace, but if you think everyone needs to be quicker than the opposition then you need a different midfield completey. we need to rely on manning up and working hard backwards to block space.

i agree we do need some pace, but what i am saying is i dont think it the most important attribute we need to work on. i think a successful marking forward is much more important.

I never said everyone needed to be quicker than the opposition, and I never said it was the most important attribute we need to work on. I simply presented an opinion on the OP's summary of positives and negatives:

"However, I think a major oversight in your summary is our pace - we might have a TOUGH HARD midfield with that team, but there's not much foot speed there."

Considering I never said that pace was more important than a key position forward, and that I in fact shed some doubt on the OP's assertion that we had the 'nucleus' of a forward line - "Given that a 2 KPP forward line seems the norm, we're a long way off!" - your line re: a successful marking forward being much more important seems beside the point when we're talking about the merits of pace and the midfield.

[Jarka 767]

You know what they say about sarcasm...

The forward line is the real worry in my book with only Wonaeamirri and Bate showing that they can excel in their positions. Miller and Sylvia continue to tease and Green has only a handful of years left. Morton, in my belief, should be groomed for CHF but that is no fait accompli and the holes are far from being filled.

Prospective fwds: Newton, Maric, Zomer and Dunn. That list does not inspire confidence but if I was to pick the fwd line going into 2009 it would be this: Newton, Bate, Sylvia. Morton, Miller, Wonaeamirri. (Green to replace Newton if not traded)

That is not a great fwd line at all, full of potential but not much else.

I take your point about sarcasm, it was just in complete dismay in another threadthat someone could put so much pressure on a kid who hasn't even played a single game, to expect him to be the obvious replacement for Neitz at FF is bewildering.

Obviously we have to work with what we've currently got and the names you've mentioned are the standouts so far, perhaps one or two may put their hands up but in reality we have alot of work to do to rebuild the list.

Morton is an interesting prospect, and I guess it really depeneds on what happens with his body. If he develops into a bigger body he could definitely hold down a KP, however I'm more expecting him to be a tall skillfull winger. The kid really coould be anything.

[deanox 9,915]

I never said everyone needed to be quicker than the opposition, and I never said it was the most important attribute we need to work on. I simply presented an opinion on the OP's summary of positives and negatives:

"However, I think a major oversight in your summary is our pace - we might have a TOUGH HARD midfield with that team, but there's not much foot speed there."

Considering I never said that pace was more important than a key position forward, and that I in fact shed some doubt on the OP's assertion that we had the 'nucleus' of a forward line - "Given that a 2 KPP forward line seems the norm, we're a long way off!" - your line re: a successful marking forward being much more important seems beside the point when we're talking about the merits of pace and the midfield.

i wasnt having a dig rogue, just a discussion.

i thought your summary was pretty good, i was giving my opinion on the need for pace. and i was suggesting that we could use an extra elite mid with a lot of pace, but one would almost do. and that i think our biggest problem isnt that we need a mid with pace, its that the existing mids are a touch slow.

and my point re the forward was that in drafting and trading i would prefer us to look for a key forward prospect ofver a fleet footed midfielder, simply because i see that hole as being much bigger.

[Yze_Magic 3]

We are on the right tack.

A great young nucleus, led by a smart touch coach.

Its an absolute joke that some flogs in the media (ie Hutchy) called us the new Fitzroy.

In three years we will be a powerhouse again, and a lot of people will have egg on their faces.