A boutique ground at Casey - the vision

[beelzebub 23,313]

By the way... the South-East area is already linked with St. Kilda F.C. Not exactly untouched territory like you have said. But don't let the facts get in the way of a another good 'argument' I guess.

St Kilda is moving to Frankston.. thats a bit more South than South East !!.. and what relevance is it that the G is 50 k from cranny..were you intending to go there first ??

[mfcrox 143]

St Kilda is moving to Frankston.. thats a bit more South than South East !!.. and what relevance is it that the G is 50 k from cranny..were you intending to go there first ??

Well, considering that most of the train-lines go right by the MCG via the loop to get all the way out to 'Cranny', I would say it has some relevance. It is simply too far out of most supporters way.

If location conveniency is not an issue for you, how about we play our 'boutique' games out of Queen Elizabeth Oval in Bendigo. Local population of 86,068... most of whom would relish the opportunity to see an AFL home & away game in their home-town. That would also make it a likely sell-out at every game that gets played there, because it would be like a big event for a place like that.

It could also serve to recruit the next generation of supporters (how many other teams play in Bendigo?). However, I doubt you and many others would want to travel 150km to watch it. Same could be said for Cranbourne... most supporters would be less than jovial at the prospect of having to travel all the way to Casey Fields (By the way, I have an uncle who lives in Cranbourne, so I know how much of a [censored] it is traveling all that way from where I live).

As we have seen from our supporter 'efforts' at Princes Park and even the MCG over the years, we struggle to attract a crowd against interstate or smaller clubs. How is playing a game 50km from central Melbourne going to attract more supporters than playing it at a more local ground??? The fact is, if we are going to play on a 'boutique' ground, it has to be an inner suburban ground.

[george_on_the_outer 7,567]

I applaud the first evidence of some serious thinking outside the square by the club in the past 40 years!

1. If this comes off, we will have a first rate summer training facility. It is the same reason Richmond are moving to Craigieburn and St.Kilda to Frankston.

2. So we are now thinking even further outside the square...should we play games such as against Fremantle or Port at Casey....

Facts:

we can only attract a crowd of 20k on a good day at the MCG against these clubs. For this we break even.

we lose money if it falls below these figures.

our history of playing similar games at Princes Park found us with crowds of 9k...would we get any less at Casey?

we still lost money for those games, because Carlton charge extortionate rent.

Windy Hill, Glenferrie, Arden st, Moorabbin, Brunswick, Junction oval don't meet AFL standards today, and are too small.

we can get advertising and signage revenue at Casey, which we get nowhere today, including the MCG

9k at Casey would probably produce a profit

Casey has a potential upside in future members.

MCC members continue to watch games for at the MCG, with only a pittance of money coming to the MFC.

Long way to go yet, but this is looking like a no brainer

[rpfc 28,262]

We are a long way off getting this done but it is enticing for home games against interstate games.

Stadium deals are the difference between the rich interstate clubs and us, NM, the Bulldogs, St.Kilda etc.

Forget the draw, we are always going to get a [censored] one and Collingwood is always going to get a good one.

But if we could get the funding together to get stadia for 25 000 at a Casey like ground we would be much better off and the AFL would have no argument about maximising attendances because we wouldn't get more than 20000 anyway (and if the MCC complain about taking away games from them then maybe they should have thought about that before this mess occurred).

And if anyone says "yeah but we will only get 10000 at Casey anyway" i'll scream because: first - you're underestimating crowd expectations and secondly - we would do better than break even with 10000 when break even is the best we will do against interstate teams.

[w00dy 146]

anyone see how many melbourne supporters were at the G to farewell Neita today?

how many of those would make the trip out to Cranbourne to watch us play?

[Rogue 585]

I am sure a supporter of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, etc. from the East/South-East area is going to venture down and watch Melbourne do battle against Fremantle. Give me a break!!! The only people we are going to attract to watch Melbourne play Fremantle is Melbourne supporters... and I doubt that many will be willing to venture all the way out to bloody whoop-whoop Casey, when it was too much of a challenge getting them to attend at another central ground like Optus Oval.

I actually think a reasonably amount of people would be interested in watching some AFL footy if it was 'on their doorstep' - and apparently the area around Casey Fields is the fastest growing etc. If their was AFL played locally, I would be interested in having a look, even if it wasn't the Dees. I do agree with you to some extent when you say a Pies or Blues supporter won't care, but I don't see success as measured by booting crowds numbers by getting thousands upon thousands of supporters from other Clubs to come watch just because it's local.

If it is about crowd numbers, and implicitly about finances, then I'd suggest that moving games to another stadium is probably going to be a success. We've lost money on many games at the 'G versus non-Vic clubs, so if we find a 'cheaper' stadium we can avoid that. However, as I said, I don't see it as being solely about crowd numbers/gate takings.

One thing people talk about is the growth in the East/South-East area... and this is why we should jump at the opportunity, because it will be a way to attract new members. However, do people realize that the people providing the growth to these new areas most likely barrack for teams already. Yeah, people do have children... and they are who we should be targeting for support, but who is to say we will last long enough for these children to attend our games.

Kids are relatively fickle in their allegiance, and if we're going to give up on making real efforts to entice kids to our Club then we may as well put the cue in the rack now.

The point is theres a new gen coming through.. they DONT have allegiances yet. They develop them from who they come in contact with at school.. at the local footy oval etc etc. Its how most of us came to choose a team. Cranbourne is generational in context. Its not a quick fix for next week etc. Its a foundation stone and must be looked upon in that light.

Indeed.

I don't know if this has been brought up... but does it cost the same for the club to play at the MCG if it blocks off the top-2 tiers of the grand stands (excluding MCC). Surely it would cost less because less staff would have to be hired for the day.

Yeah, it's a good point that I've wondered about. I recall Gough - MCC - said that he'd look at closing sections of the stands for the Freo game, in order to cut costs. I'm not sure why we need level 4 of all stands to be open when crowds will be relatively low.

Well, considering that most of the train-lines go right by the MCG via the loop to get all the way out to 'Cranny', I would say it has some relevance. It is simply too far out of most supporters way.

As I've said, cross-town public transport out east/south-east is poor, yes. All roads lead to Rome, and as you've pointed out, it means many people would have to go into town and then back out again. However, it's a heap closer than Carrara or Manuka. It's also a viable option, and would allow us to tap into a new 'market' for members. What inner suburb gives us that?

If location conveniency is not an issue for you, how about we play our 'boutique' games out of Queen Elizabeth Oval in Bendigo. Local population of 86,068... most of whom would relish the opportunity to see an AFL home & away game in their home-town. That would also make it a likely sell-out at every game that gets played there, because it would be like a big event for a place like that.

It could also serve to recruit the next generation of supporters (how many other teams play in Bendigo?). However, I doubt you and many others would want to travel 150km to watch it. Same could be said for Cranbourne... most supporters would be less than jovial at the prospect of having to travel all the way to Casey Fields (By the way, I have an uncle who lives in Cranbourne, so I know how much of a [censored] it is traveling all that way from where I live).

Oh, please. Maybe you're just being facetious, but Casey Fields is more appropriate in all ways that I can think of, including travel times!

Casey wins because...

- it's closer to most local Dees members (presumption, but very likely to be correct)

- it's apparently the fastest growing area in Melb

- it's a realistic option as a summer training base

if you considered Princes Park to be the other side of town (6km from the G) and disliked going there for this reason, how many supporters are going to dislike going to Casey (50km from the G) ?

I can only remember going to Princes Park once, but relative to the 'G it was much harder to get to than you'd think it'd be when told it was just another 6kms.

As we have seen from our supporter 'efforts' at Princes Park and even the MCG over the years, we struggle to attract a crowd against interstate or smaller clubs. How is playing a game 50km from central Melbourne going to attract more supporters than playing it at a more local ground??? The fact is, if we are going to play on a 'boutique' ground, it has to be an inner suburban ground.

Tell me and everyone else why the average Melbourne supporter would want to travel 50km from the clubs traditional home to watch the team play, when there may be equal or better options closer to 'home'. I don't care if you don't like Princes Park or Victoria Park...

Why do poor efforts at Princes Park mean that we must have our second, smaller, ground in the inner suburbs? If crowd attendance at Princes Park is your basis for argument, I'd suggest it's more logical to assert the opposite

We tried Princes Park and it didn't work for us. What will change that now?

By the way... the South-East area is already linked with St. Kilda F.C. Not exactly untouched territory like you have said. But don't let the facts get in the way of a another good 'argument' I guess.

Frankston & the Bayside areas are quite distinct to Cranbourne etc. IMHO.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

You said over at Demonology that you went to Casey Fields, were you impressed with it?

[_becks_ 35]

Frankston: Train to Caufield. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond, No more trains for them!

Pakenham: Train to Dandenong. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond.

to travel from Richmond to Cranbourne on the train takes 50 minutes... there could be some express services, but only so many as all the other stations in between need to be serviced...

There is a bus that runs from Cranbourne to Frankston. I am also pretty sure there is a bus that runs from Pakenham to Cranbourne.

I am not saying it is necessarily the right move, thought i'd get some of the facts straight. I think the idea of moving one game is interesting, but there is a need for more seating. Furthermore, there would need to be a bus running from Cranbourne station to the ground. This would be just the start of issues they would have to deal with though to get it going. I think it would be worth a shot.

[Rogue 585]

You said over at Demonology that you went to Casey Fields, were you impressed with it?

A fair few people gave it a wrap after our NAB Cup game, but I didn't quite see it that way. I'm just not sure what there was there to be impressed/horrified about. That said, I was on the opposite side of the ground to the grandstand (when I got there it already looked pretty packed), so perhaps there was something impressive over there.

That's not to say it's bad, but for those who didn't go, it was just a ground with small scoreboard + small grandstand surrounded by a small fence. Within the 'precint' there were a fair few other ovals (and some small changerooms etc. near at least one, IIRC). All the ovals seemed in good condition, there was a paved drive leading around the ovals, the car parking was very good considering it's a suburban ground (parking was within the 'Fields' area not far from the ground), and there was some decent 'landscaping' (wetlands area adjacent to the ground, some park benches around, etc).

If it was your local ground you'd be happy, but I didn't think it was anything to write home about. No doubt there'd be plenty of work done if we were to play H&A games there, so the condition now is probably irrelevant. The big positive is probably that there was plenty of room to utilise. Overall I'd think it was 'nice', but if we're talking about playing games there, it's nothing to write home about as is.

PS. Of course, we wouldn't be using it 'as is' to host AFL games, but maybe this is interesting for those who haven't been there.

[Kit Walker 225]

To travel from Richmond to Cranbourne on the train takes 50 minutes... there could be some express services, but only so many as all the other stations in between need to be serviced...

I am not saying it is necessarily the right move, thought i'd get some of the facts straight. I think the idea of moving one game is interesting, but there is a need for more seating. Furthermore, there would need to be a bus running from Cranbourne station to the ground. This would be just the start of issues they would have to deal with though to get it going. I think it would be worth a shot.

I suspect that additional express trains from the city to Cranbourne would be put on if there was football out there, but I think it's likely that, at least initially, it will be primarily a ground you would get to by car rather than public transport (much as Waverley was).

But this is putting the cart before the horse somewhat. The questions to be asked are:

1. Are we in the short-medium term likely to get a crowd that will make money for the MFC at the MCG against the majority of interstate clubs?

2. Even if you bank on a reduction of 2-5k spectators per game if it is played at Casey, would that be a better result financially than playing with the marginally larger crowd at the MCG?

3. What will the net effect on memberships of having a (partial) base in the Casey area be, taking into account the loss of some through less games in the city (MCG/Telstra) and the addition of some through Casey residents supporting a team that plays locally?

My answers are:

1. No

2. Almost certainly, particularly if Melbourne have some/all signage rights at the ground

3. It is unlikely the initial net effect would be negative and substantially likely that there would be a longer term gain.

[mfcrox 143]

Oh, please. Maybe you're just being facetious, but Casey Fields is more appropriate in all ways that I can think of, including travel times!

Casey wins because...

- it's closer to most local Dees members (presumption, but very likely to be correct)

- it's apparently the fastest growing area in Melb

- it's a realistic option as a summer training base

Yeah, I obviously wasn't being serious about the Bendigo suggestion... it was tongue in cheek to make a point to belzebub59, because travel doesn't seem an obstacle for him/her. Anyway, I am not going to continue to harp on about it... but I just think that Casey Fields is too far out of most supporters way. If we were to play at a 'boutique' venue, it should be centralized to suit all supporters. It really is only convenient for people who live on the Eastern side of Melbourne.

Who is going to want to go to Cranbourne from the Western suburbs? Who is going to want to go to Cranbourne from the Northern suburbs? Myself, I live in the Northern suburbs... and I attend most matches, however, if we started playing out Cranbourne, I would rather tune in and watch it on television than take the 2-3hr round trip to get to the ground and back (I have an uncle in Cranbourne, so I know how long it would take me to get there). If that makes me a bad member, then so be it.

I agree that it is a good location to set-up base from a marketing stand-point. It is a large growing area, so we could do well financially out of it... it is just a [censored] to get to the ground. That is my only grudge with the venue.

[demon3165 2,711]

Yeah, I obviously wasn't being serious about the Bendigo suggestion... it was tongue in cheek to make a point to belzebub59, because travel doesn't seem an obstacle for him/her. Anyway, I am not going to continue to harp on about it... but I just think that Casey Fields is too far out of most supporters way. If we were to play at a 'boutique' venue, it should be centralized to suit all supporters. It really is only convenient for people who live on the Eastern side of Melbourne.

Who is going to want to go to Cranbourne from the Western suburbs? Who is going to want to go to Cranbourne from the Northern suburbs? Myself, I live in the Northern suburbs... and I attend most matches, however, if we started playing out Cranbourne, I would rather tune in and watch it on television than take the 2-3hr round trip to get to the ground and back (I have an uncle in Cranbourne, so I know how long it would take me to get there). If that makes me a bad member, then so be it.

I agree that it is a good location to set-up base from a marketing stand-point. It is a large growing area, so we could do well financially out of it... it is just a [censored] to get to the ground. That is my only grudge with the venue.

The amount of games that would play there is 3-4 depending on the draw (if built) if that helps the club financially with some serious money then go for it, you would be surprised how many people would go to the "cauldron of Hell" (nice ring about that if I say so myself) Lets see what happens before we all condemn the plan, hell we have been screaming out for this club to come up with a plan and vision and soon as they do people bag them and give nothing but negative comments about it again lets wait to see the devil in the detail.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Well, considering that most of the train-lines go right by the MCG via the loop to get all the way out to 'Cranny', I would say it has some relevance. It is simply too far out of most supporters way.

If location conveniency is not an issue for you, how about we play our 'boutique' games out of Queen Elizabeth Oval in Bendigo. Local population of 86,068... most of whom would relish the opportunity to see an AFL home & away game in their home-town. That would also make it a likely sell-out at every game that gets played there, because it would be like a big event for a place like that.

You plainly dont get it !! You are viewing this whole thing froma very narrow perspective...and Id suggest a veryselfish one. That is to say..how it affects YOU. I think it might be very suggestible to a great many people that a trip to Cranny 3-4 times a year isnt to omuch of an ask. Again its a damn site closer than Carrara or Manuka !! By all means do us all a favour and go to Bendigo.

AFL park..whilst having its short comings was able to pull a reasonable , smaller crowd week in week out. Yes Arctic park was a bit closer than Cranny, but is almost a carbon copy ( or rather the prototype for thinking ) in the case of Casey Fileds. Waverly Park was in the sticks.. middle of nowhere realtively to any tansport also. There is a much much larger probablility that Crnabourne East will be serviced by rail than Waverly ever was going to be.

In terms of backing arguments.As were talking generalities re Cranny I think Ive shown a probabnly argument for going. Ive actually yet to see anything from you. Please enlighten us. I for one am always happy to learn.

[mfcrox 143]

You plainly dont get it !! You are viewing this whole thing froma very narrow perspective...and Id suggest a veryselfish one. That is to say..how it affects YOU. I think it might be very suggestible to a great many people that a trip to Cranny 3-4 times a year isnt to omuch of an ask. Again its a damn site closer than Carrara or Manuka !! By all means do us all a favour and go to Bendigo.

AFL park..whilst having its short comings was able to pull a reasonable , smaller crowd week in week out. Yes Arctic park was a bit closer than Cranny, but is almost a carbon copy ( or rather the prototype for thinking ) in the case of Casey Fileds. Waverly Park was in the sticks.. middle of nowhere realtively to any tansport also. There is a much much larger probablility that Crnabourne East will be serviced by rail than Waverly ever was going to be.

In terms of backing arguments.As were talking generalities re Cranny I think Ive shown a probabnly argument for going. Ive actually yet to see anything from you. Please enlighten us. I for one am always happy to learn.

Mate, are you an imbecile??? Why do you continually pull up a post or two prior to what I or anyone else has recently posted to try and support what you have to say and then turn it back on them again? Here is something I have posted in my most recent post on this... take a good read:

'I agree that it is a good location to set-up base from a marketing stand-point. It is a large growing area, so we could do well financially out of it... it is just a [censored] to get to the ground. That is my only grudge with the venue.'

I don't care... you can call me 'selfish' for not wanting to travel the other side of the town to watch my club play... it is a shame that the club has to resort to these measures to survive. I put in my bit to help the club... I am a member, I am attending the 150 dinner, I love the club like nothing else. So you can go right ahead and keep pulling up old posts to support your 'arguments', and you can go right ahead and call me selfish again. The fact of the matter is... I would rather be considered selfish, than an idiot like yourself.

[IWAP 170]

While its an interesting concept, I would have thought a stadium this size would be too expensive to justify for 3 or 4 home games a year, and the local VFL team playing once every 2 weeks

[Real Demon 232]

I'm sure the allure of going to watch top level football at a local level would appeal to many.........that has to be one of the real selling points.

I've watched a couple of games down at York Park, and it's just like the good old days of suburban football!

[casey scorp 2]

While its an interesting concept, I would have thought a stadium this size would be too expensive to justify for 3 or 4 home games a year, and the local VFL team playing once every 2 weeks

Plus:

• Cranbourne Footy Club playing every week that the Scorpions are away
• TAC matches
• NAB Challenge matches
• U18 National Championship matches (Casey Fields hosted the finals last year)
• Casey-Cardinia League finals

[grazman 7,406]

I think Paul Gardner has played this very well.

With the introduction of 18 teams the likelihood of us being punted from the G to other grounds is highly probable.

If the AFL don't support the venture (and it appears that the economics and sociology are in our favour) then they have to provide a viable alternative - in short they need to commit to a better solution in terms of the CBF.

There are two major problems we have as a club. One is a small and rapidly decreasing supporter base (many of whom don't pay memberships because they get into the MCG for free as MCC members). Secondly we have no real assests - the income we derive is based almost solely from membership and via the AFL. Compare this to Essendon. Even a great season for us in five years time won't be enough for us to break even, let alone the thought of another season like this year.

The problems with public transport will be overcome, it's a growth corridor, the facilities will follow.

[52k2 0]

here are some FACTS YES FACTS..... last thursday chris connelly was at a meeting of the casey council. the ground package has not been voted on but it will be in the next two to three weeks.

the package is as follows... $750000 from the council for work on the grand stand for gym and such like.

$140000 from the council for sealing the car park.

$1500000 from the state goverment.

a gift of a block of land worth $500000 to the MFC which we morgage to finance our part of the deal.

does that make it any clearer, but remember it hasnt been passed yet!!!!!!!!!

[beelzebub 23,313]

The fact of the matter is... I would rather be considered selfish, than an idiot like yourself.

pretty funny stuff mate.. so sorry I cant abide your cronology.

You went to great lengths to ridicule the idea at first.. and now you're onboard ??..well congratulations. Call me all the names you like. I really couldnt care less.

Again I apologise ahead ..should this not fit in with YOU !!

[beelzebub 23,313]

...

$750000 from the council for work on the grand stand for gym and such like.

$140000 from the council for sealing the car park.

$1500000 from the state goverment.

a gift of a block of land worth $500000 to the MFC which we morgage to finance our part of the deal.

Thanks..this concisely adds persepctive to all the snippets from the various journals etc

there is also ( cant quite place finger on it ) a submission I beleive to the AFL for some extra special funding for this. This would be external to the equalisation funding that we're currently recipient to. Two figures Ive seen bandied around were 1M and 1.5 mill. This is not the same as the Gov is kicking in

combined with context:

Plus:

• Cranbourne Footy Club playing every week that the Scorpions are away
• TAC matches
• NAB Challenge matches
• U18 National Championship matches (Casey Fields hosted the finals last year)
• Casey-Cardinia League finals

Many seem to be of the slightly askew immpression that its ALL being done for us. Whilst we as a club would benefit immensely its the notion of the council that they are creating a premier sporting facility for the greater community at large. It serves both parties ( MFC & Casey ) to have each other as partners.

[casey scorp 2]

here are some FACTS YES FACTS..... last thursday chris connelly was at a meeting of the casey council. the ground package has not been voted on but it will be in the next two to three weeks.

the package is as follows... $750,000 from the council for work on the grand stand for gym and such like.

$140,000 from the council for sealing the car park.

$1,500,000 from the state goverment.

a gift of a block of land worth $500,000 to the MFC which we morgage to finance our part of the deal.

does that make it any clearer, but remember it hasnt been passed yet!!!!!!!!!

There was no Council meeting of Casey Council last Thursday according to the Council website.

The $1.5 million from the State Government is interesting, but doubtful.

The State Government just announced $538,000 in the budget for the Casey Scorpions to further develop the complex. I'd be surprised if all of a sudden there arrived another $1.5 million. Surprised, but very happy if it does.

[dee-luded 2,959]

While its an interesting concept, I would have thought a stadium this size would be too expensive to justify for 3 or 4 home games a year, and the local VFL team playing once every 2 weeks

The AFL are encouraging the teams to 'own realestate', and the AFL are looking @ bringing back the reserves & under 18's.

[CarnTheDees 52]

Plus:

• Cranbourne Footy Club playing every week that the Scorpions are away
• TAC matches
• NAB Challenge matches
• U18 National Championship matches (Casey Fields hosted the finals last year)
• Casey-Cardinia League finals

Do they currently play Stingrays matches there or are you just suggesting that it could be a possibility?

Would be great if this did eventuate to have some sort of curtain-raiser match before the AFL game, either TAC or VFL.

[casey scorp 2]

Do they currently play Stingrays matches there or are you just suggesting that it could be a possibility?

Would be great if this did eventuate to have some sort of curtain-raiser match before the AFL game, either TAC or VFL.

There are some Gippsland Power home games played there (Gippsland Power is aligned with the Scorpions). There has also been a motely collection of other matches there not involving the Power.