Gun.

What else needs to be said. We missed him more than we thought I think. Just a damn good footballer.

After a rusty start, he stamped himself on the game after halftime. I love the bloke. He makes us better.

After a rusty start, he stamped himself on the game after halftime. I love the bloke. He makes us better.

Oh the wit...

Oh the wit...

He pilfered it off Dennis Cometti!

Gun.

What else needs to be said. We missed him more than we thought I think. Just a damn good footballer.

After a rusty start, he stamped himself on the game after halftime. I love the bloke. He makes us better.

he was coming of the ground about 25 minute mark of the second quarter after dropping his 5th or 6th mark and l yelled out to him to stay off and don't come back on, then he turns around and plays like that in the second half, he's fast becoming my favorite and one of our most important players.

yep, Bate shoulda been back much earlier (although if he was injured or "not 100%" I can accept that) at any rate, it is so good to have him back.

He was probably the best part of yesterday for mine...

We had Wonna, who was fantastic, Miller, who was WELL overdue, but 4 out of our 5 major ballwinners were over the age of 27... So there were negatives to take out of the positives...

Except for Bate. Last year we saw him fit for the majority of the season and he waxed and waned. At one point he was dropped for bad form, and as an emergency got a game, played well and kept his place. After that he earned his 4th place in the B&F... My concern always is that even when fit he can go through patches of just plain bad form. He's a touch predictable, always going to his left, not jumping too high... I always back him in because he's got class stamped all over him, but in pro footy, I worry that he'll have a lot of frustrating bad days...

Yesterday was a HUGE step for the kid. I fully expected him to come back in and have a howler. He wasn't smashing teams in the VFL like you would think he should, which suggests he wasn't QUITE where he'd want to be for making his return. We had a problem with marking power up forward, so he was rushed back. I had expected the form of his first half to continue for the rest of the game, and would have been ok with that as I'd assumed he was going to need 1-3 weeks before we could start marking him harshly...

But his second half was superb. When he got dragged for that disgraceful holding the ball, he looked ABSOLUTELY shot... I hardly expected him to get a touch after that. But watch the replay. He ran hard all day, with and without the ball. Smashed blokes, tackled hard, marked superbly, was as good or better than Miller on the lead... stretching out to the boundary on the wings and flanks... then bolting back inside adding length to his already 60 metre pin-point delivery...

And the BIGGEST thing... his kick. It's prodigious. It's ENORMOUS to begin with, but even with a question over his fitness, he was passing SO effectively it lifted his team. The Dockers started to drift back, nervous about how damaging he is by foot... this gave Bate's mates more room to move through the middle... And add to that the fact he ran through the middle adding fifteen metres to every kick.

A forward's joy... a midfelder's best mate. Makes both his midfield and forward team-mates look a million dollars with his dash and delivery. SO important... and like Rivers, we are a different team with him there.

Miller playing like that, and Bate roaming far and wide... add Newton in the square, or swapping with Miller at CHF and you have three talls that will stretch opposition KP defensive power. For the first time this year.

Yep I was with you unstable_punt, the absolute sitter that he dropped in front of the faithful, was inexcusable as it was the umpteenth easy mark he'd dropped, and then to top if off by getting run down and pinged for holding the ball by Aaron Sandilands of all players, was the final straw. He rightfully got dragged for that calamitous clanger, only to return to the field a minute or so later to my chagrin. My, what a difference a halfs worth of football makes, Bater was simply awesome in the second half, he just seems to run to the right spot in the clinches, and while he still gets tackled taking guys on far too often, he is only going to get better...

In the opinion of Davey's sugar daddy,

I don't think Bate deserves all these compliments. I believe his biggest attribute is his long kick. He has a hard body potentially could be good. There are too many negatives with Bate at this point in time.

Im sick of people saying a player is going to be a "superstar" or something of that status after one good game. Bate came alive when melbourne came alive in the second half. Bate had a terrible first half and an ok second half. Miller is someone who had a good game. He played well the whole day even when Freo were up.

Bate's negatives to date.

*Awareness

*Lack of pace

*Lacks aggression

Now I know there will be a few that blast me for this. I am simply giving you my opinion. I think Bate has a long way to go before he can prove to us that he is "superstar" quality. Bate has the potential to be a great player. I hope he becomes one.

he was coming of the ground about 25 minute mark of the second quarter after dropping his 5th or 6th mark and l yelled out to him to stay off and don't come back on, then he turns around and plays like that in the second half, he's fast becoming my favorite and one of our most important players.

Very strange I remember his early games last year were marred by a lot of fumbling. Hopefully he has got the fumbles out of his system early this year.

yep, Bate shoulda been back much earlier (although if he was injured or "not 100%" I can accept that) at any rate, it is so good to have him back.

I think Bailey won't make that mistake again. Bate is a gun I think I was justified losing the plot when they wouldn't pick him.

So why on earth did Unstable Punt [well named]shout abuse at a bloke playing his first match for the season. Did it make you feel better mate? Did you think it would help the boy's confidence?
It's "supporters" like you who drive many of us to drink!

he was coming of the ground about 25 minute mark of the second quarter after dropping his 5th or 6th mark and l yelled out to him to stay off and don't come back on, then he turns around and plays like that in the second half, he's fast becoming my favorite and one of our most important players.

In the opinion of Davey's sugar daddy,

I don't think Bate deserves all these compliments. I believe his biggest attribute is his long kick. He has a hard body potentially could be good. There are too many negatives with Bate at this point in time.

Im sick of people saying a player is going to be a "superstar" or something of that status after one good game. Bate came alive when melbourne came alive in the second half. Bate had a terrible first half and an ok second half. Miller is someone who had a good game. He played well the whole day even when Freo were up.

Bate's negatives to date.

*Awareness

*Lack of pace

*Lacks aggression

Now I know there will be a few that blast me for this. I am simply giving you my opinion. I think Bate has a long way to go before he can prove to us that he is "superstar" quality. Bate has the potential to be a great player. I hope he becomes one.

No.... no blast. You'll just not be take seriously.

Lack of pace? Are you serious? He's perhaps a bit one-paced at times, but he's quick mate. He's very quick actually.

Awareness? Maybe he doesn't have the awareness of an Aaron Davey (but then who does?)... but he's a long LONG way from being Daniel Bell.

Aggression? What does that mean exactly? Brad Miller style aggression? That's fair enough. He's not the bustling type. But as long as his aggression is turned towards his hard-work and engine then who cares? Not all players have to put a hit on the opposition to make their physical presence felt.

Bate came alive when Melbourne came alive?... No. Melbourne came alive partly BECAUSE Bate came alive. His first real footy this year, and he needed a half to get some touch.

I do agree that he's not a superstar. But no-one's used that word in this thread.

He deserves more credit though. He's a very, very good player.

No.... no blast. You'll just not be take seriously.

Lack of pace? Are you serious? He's perhaps a bit one-paced at times, but he's quick mate. He's very quick actually.

Awareness? Maybe he doesn't have the awareness of an Aaron Davey (but then who does?)... but he's a long LONG way from being Daniel Bell.

Aggression? What does that mean exactly? Brad Miller style aggression? That's fair enough. He's not the bustling type. But as long as his aggression is turned towards his hard-work and engine then who cares? Not all players have to put a hit on the opposition to make their physical presence felt.

Bate came alive when Melbourne came alive?... No. Melbourne came alive partly BECAUSE Bate came alive. His first real footy this year, and he needed a half to get some touch.

I do agree that he's not a superstar. But no-one's used that word in this thread.

He deserves more credit though. He's a very, very good player.

I've just finished looking at a replay of the match (was at the game as well).

I thought Bate was very ordinary in the first half, as were most of his team mates.

He was coming into the team for the first time this year however and after a hamstring injury may well have felt somewhat tentative in his approach to the game.

But in the second half it was he and Miller operating across that half forward line that really won us the match. Bate was fast (not lightning fast but certainly fast enough), aggressive at the ball - he attacked it aggressively and not the man and to my mind his awareness was very good and should only get better.

I liked his game.

One last thing I forgot to mention, Davey's Sugar Daddy...

Bate does have faults. But so do other players. Franklin was overlooked by HIS OWN CLUB at pick 2, because of perceived weaknesses such as lack of overhead marking, mental weakness etc etc. Now look at him. His strengths so completely over-ride his weaknesses that they're almost impossible to see now. He's so quick and so accurate... so superb below his knees and so athletic that nothing else matters in his game...

If you're going to judge players only on their weaknesses then you take Judd at pick 3 because he had bad shoulders and wasn't the best kick going around.

Likewise you give someone like Newton a go because he is the complete KP forward. Good kick, huge leap, sticky hands, loves it rough, runs a long way, is quick, works hard off the ball, loves a big hit and or tackle, has learned defensive pressure, knows where and how to lead, loves a snap, is pretty good below his knees... He's got the lot. So why is he not playing well? He hasn't got Bate's "weaknesses." So why is Bate rated higher, and more importantly why has Bate done so much better at the top level in exactly the same amount of time?

In just his 3rd and 4th years with the club his kick alone was winning matches. He wasn't just doing it periodically, he was monstering sides with it. Give him a couple more years and other clubs will be standing in line to trade for him. You watch.

Likewise you give someone like Newton a go because he is the complete KP forward. Good kick, huge leap, sticky hands, loves it rough, runs a long way, is quick, works hard off the ball, loves a big hit and or tackle, has learned defensive pressure, knows where and how to lead, loves a snap, is pretty good below his knees... He's got the lot.

I reckon you've seen a different Newton to me. I haven't seen many Sandy games, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I haven't seen evidence that he loves it rough, loves a big hit and or tackle, etc. I'm also not sure if labelling him 'quick' is appropriate, either.

he was coming of the ground about 25 minute mark of the second quarter after dropping his 5th or 6th mark and l yelled out to him to stay off and don't come back on

You hero.

Bate is a KPP. I hope Sunday reinforced that for many. He is too slow for a wing, but already is a fantastic HFF.

I reckon he can become CHF or FF. His left foot looks ungainly but his kick to Robbo in that 3rd Qtr was a 40 metre pass that never got 6 metres above the ground, and it was off only a few steps.

When he started at the club he said he eventually wanted to become a midfielder

Bate is a KPP. I hope Sunday reinforced that for many. He is too slow for a wing, but already is a fantastic HFF.

I reckon he can become CHF or FF. His left foot looks ungainly but his kick to Robbo in that 3rd Qtr was a 40 metre pass that never got 6 metres above the ground, and it was off only a few steps.

When he started at the club he said he eventually wanted to become a midfielder

That's right. Back when he played for croydon was always put ruck rover and dominated. We had several taggers but still outmarked everyone cause of his size. I poked him in the eye once in a marking contest and had to come off but other than that the only time we bet Croydon all throughout the under 12's - 16's was when he didn't play. But I like him playing the HF role he's in.

You would've played against Cox (Croydon), Markovic (Sth Croydon) Hocking and Pederson (Mooroolbark) then?

Fair age group that one was

Yes thats correct, and don't forget Moses he was a good player too. Our only strengths were Unsworth and Allen.

I was the age group below that so I'm not 100% sure who the dudes you mentioned were

Moses a ruckman with a big bushy beard?

That's right. Back when he played for croydon was always put ruck rover and dominated. We had several taggers but still outmarked everyone cause of his size. I poked him in the eye once in a marking contest and had to come off but other than that the only time we bet Croydon all throughout the under 12's - 16's was when he didn't play. But I like him playing the HF role he's in.

I know in Under 16s he played on a wing too

Bate is a KPP. I hope Sunday reinforced that for many. He is too slow for a wing, but already is a fantastic HFF.

I reckon he can become CHF or FF. His left foot looks ungainly but his kick to Robbo in that 3rd Qtr was a 40 metre pass that never got 6 metres above the ground, and it was off only a few steps.

Just doesn't possess a leap, that's all. He needs to be able to take a contested overhead pack mark for me....to be a CHF, FF.......

....Maybe I'm asking for too much!

Just doesn't possess a leap, that's all. He needs to be able to take a contested overhead pack mark for me....to be a CHF, FF.......

....Maybe I'm asking for too much!

Your not asking too much....I think he'll get off the ground as his confidence rises.

He got up quite high to effect a great spoil against Brown in the last Lions game, his fist struck the ball cleanly just as Brownie was about to wrap his giant paws around it.

Against the Dogs he took 3 hit outs and got up quite high for those too.

I think where he needs to learn, and it can be taught, is how to go up that fraction earlier than he does, so as to A. meet the ball at the highest possible point, B. take the ball just on the way down, C. get the benefit of "lift" from the pack being that fraction behind him and holding him up just at the highest point.

At the moment he seems to get up when going back with the flight of the ball, when he has to go, but tends to be caught looking flat footed and swamped in a pack when the ball is dropping more or less straight down.

Bottom line, I think his confidence to leap high and earlier for marks will come with time. Hope so, would be exciting.