Older demon

With the deadline for list submission closing in I note that the Hawks wielded the axe today. After just 1 season Jack Fitzpatrick is without a home and Matt Spangher and Alex woodward have both been cut after missing through injury in the last 2 years. Sorry for Fitzy as I thought he had overcome his concussion issues and may fill the gap left by the injury to Ceglar. Others thoughts?

I read the riddle differently. Who on our list is ocean bound? If they go, we get something in return. Ocean destinations maybe West Coast, Gold Coast don't consider Brisbane coastal. The only name mentioned as trade bait is Lynden Dunn and maybe Vandenberg. So my answer is the player in question Lynden rather, than who we receive.

On the Adelaide list Melbourne have expressed interest in Harry Dear son of Hawks premiership player Paul. Cannot see any connection to butter though.

But a 3 year deal, so it may even out.

Same story on 9 news just now. Hawks offered Lewis to Gold Coast for O'Meara and Lewis rejected the offer, certainly not the same good will seen with Mitchel moving on. Surprised that even in the cutthroat world of AFL the the Hawks would treat one of their loyal warriors so poorly. He will ask to be traded to demons tomorrow. I hope the O'mear thing sees the so called family club implode. Go Dees

As I mentioned earlier our slide all started when Smith was happy for Barassi to leave for Carlton to learn the coaching caper and later return to replace him. Smith sacked re-instated but the place was never the same even thought to be cursed.

For those who have read the book "Red Fox" this situation is remarkably similar to the Ron Barassi defection to Carlton. Smith was happy to let Ron go to Carlton as coach, learn the trade and then come back and take over from him. Sadly the club sacked Smith, recanted but never recovered and here we are 52 years later still waiting for the next flag. Ron wanted to go Smith gave his blessing and MFC was aging and then about to slide. Recent Hawks trading from other clubs and not redeveloping may well be there downfall. Bruest has already said how shocked he was that he was being offered. None of their core players want to leave but the hierarchy clearly see some as expendable. A different era now, but the similarities are there. The Smith plan failed, Barassi did eventually return to MFC but for years he refused to contemplate the club until those who sacked his father figure were gone. To get him back the MFC split from MCC which was only re-aligned in recent times when our very future was threatened. Actually i wouldn't be unhappy if the Hawks don't win a flag in the next 50 years

So pleased that the 2 teams that stay in the hunt by cherry picking players from other clubs i.e. Hawks and Cats have failed to reach the G.F. Sydney went down that path with franklin and Tippet and although still there they have introduced 7 new players this year and have made a GF. Gives me hope for our group if we can keep them together. Already I see that Hawks and Cats are looking to load up again next year. Why don't they just take their medicine and go and develop some players

I know his dad and in the past has never entertained a move to his fathers old club. When Sanderson was coach he was set to move and carlton made him a very good offer but new coach Walsh convinced him to stay.

Not picked in their VFL side for this weeks elimination final!!

Listening to Sen yesterday discussing Bombers coaching and his time at Geelong. There is some parallels with us and the young group at Geelong at the time. Tom harley's appointment as captain was discussed as the leader and Scarlett's role demanding higher standards even though he could play hard off field. Scarlo also was constantly in conflict with Stevie J who he thought was slack. Bomber started with a very young talented group in 2000 and by the end of 2003 was looking shaky and at the end of 2006 was facing the sack and only an extensive review saved him. 2007 started slowly until they won 15 straight and went on to win the flag by a record margin. My point is that it took 7 years. We may have to wait until this group Viney, Trac, Oscar, Gus, Oliver etc have 5 years of ups and downs to toughen up grow and develop. A reminder of how tough and brutal this comp is.

Agree he is 21 and in his second year. he wouldn't be the first player to suffer 2nd year blues. I think his development will come from player further up field which ill demand he run and lead up instead of sitting in the square and going 1 on 1. I worry for next year with so many of the young guns coming into their 2nd tear next year and having similar struggles.

To me the big surprise is just how well we did with the introduction of so many first year players. Surely the expectation, that gains over the last few years would see improvement but with established stronger bigger bodies. To have Lamumba, Dunne, Garland, Dawes, Grimes and Pederson play little or no part in the year would not have been part of the plan and the expectation should have been that this group lead our youngsters forward. This did not happen and the fall off in all this group is alarming. These are the seasoned bigger bodies expected to shield the kids. Geelong's and last week, Carlton's bigger bodies out muscled and tackled us. Not for the first time yesterday and throughout the year we were unable to stick tackles or break them. Do not have high expectations next year as many of this years youth will only be in their second year and there is often fall away in year 2. I see 2-3 years before we harden up, unless we get some older bodies in. Do not expect the young guys to automatically advance, Roos at his presser said they need to spend the next 8 weeks (their break) working hard to return to pre season well prepared. I am rapt in the progress of Oscar and emergence of Hunt and didn't see that coming. Oliver is a beast as is Trac and I like the way Frost streams out the backline. But each an every player needs to find improvement for next year. The leadership group is thin for experience and muscle and can we expect the same output next year from Nathan, Bernie and Neville. Desperately need a ruckman forward to support Max as all the big boys are running with 2 and the Eagles and Hawks will be scouting for similar. A good year with a sour end and no promise of advancement next year but certainly we have improved.

Sorry guys but Jack and Jessie were dating sisters who live in Brighton. Jack and sister one stopped dating early in the season but until recently Jessie was still dating sister 2 who is definitely not Jacks sister. Lovely lass who is athletic and has no intention of moving anywhere. Bad news is they have stopped dating so Jessie is single again.

Grimes as a RFA can move anywhere if he is made an offer the MFC don't match so he has some options. Trengove as mentioned on another thread earlier is considering his options for a future profession away from football. I doubt that Grimes will be there and Trekkers is very doubtful

Captain is one thing leadership group is another. Nathan or whoever it is in the future cannot do it alone. A mix of bull, strategist, intellect, rat cunning, aggression and maturity does not and will not exist in just one individual straight away . This is why leading teams aspire to have leadership groups. Leaders grow and Roos today has said how much Nathan has grown in the role. Our group is very young and we need continuity in the leadership group as they grow and Roos has stated his on field team do a lot of the coaching.

Cannot see MFC announcing any retirements for this week and seasons end. We all know this is Roos last game so lets celebrate that.

As I stated elsewhere Dom has done a lot of media and interviews. Articulate and well spoken I expect him to be in the leadership group next year on the back of his great 2nd half form.

I read this and have written elsewhere that this gets down to on field leadership which I believe we are light on. With such a young team we miss the on field generals. Yes we have leaders who inspire by their desire and effort i.e. Viney, Jones but this is about empowering leaders to be an extension of the coach. To position players, move them and sense changes in momentum all comes with experience. GWS leaders were criticised last week for leaving a gap at the front of the pack for Naitanui to move into collect the ball and kick the winning goal and not directing younger players to fill the gaps. Look at the role Heath Shaw plays down back, Corey Enright at Geelong, Hodge, Lewis and others at hawthorn while Jack, McVeigh, Kennedy and a host of others at Sydney are drilled into what to do. This is true leadership and our young group have a lot to learn.

Has anyone noticed of late how many press interviews Dom Tyson has done. With his good form of late and a new coach coming in I think he will be in the leadership group next season and may be ahead of Viney and Watts. Jonesy will be 29 next Jan and the job is his for as long as he likes but the leadership team will be critical. Listening to radio today the talk was of how on field leaders direct players, adjust their positioning and ensure players stick to what is drilled into them. Our on field leaders were slow to react yesterday against Carlton and not for the first time this year. Gibbs, Simpson and Armfield are their to guide the younger ones. I can see Tyson filling this role. Who in our young group can be the strategist and general on field? WE are so young. Viney may be the young bull but is he able to position players and maintain structures when he is concentrating so hard on his own game. All of the experienced players like Grimes, Trengove, Dunne and Garland cannot get a game and Bernie is prone to some brain fades. I was seriously impressed with Jayden Hunt's post match interview and his reading of what went wrong. It is a challenge for Goodwin to find on field generals who can implement his plans. Thoughts anyone

I noted that Dawes name was not on the team list yesterday. Injured, cooked for the year certainly couldn't be considered for selection this week. Harmes also had the weekend off as emergency.

1. Jetta (by a long way) 2. Tyson 3. Hunt 4. T. mac 5. Oliver 6. O. Mac

And shows how vulnerable we are if anything happens to Max! Spencer and Max King with Mitch King returning from and ACL repair, all a bit thin in the tall man dept. Sydney have Tippet, Naismith, Nankervis, Sinclair and Derikx all over 200 cm with a few of them never expected to play unless there is an injury. They have also carried Alex Johnson on their long term injury list for the last 3 years. maybe our list needs a slight change in structure.

The last comment prompted me to look up Smith's record. Born in 55 it is so long ago it is hard to remember. Runners up in 54 & 58 and flags in 55,56,57,59 and 60 so for 7 years Smith was the man. I would be grateful for the current crop to deliver 1 that I can see and remember

Early word is Ceglar and Nick Nat have torn their ACL's, that is terrible. Both injured in almost the same spot. Good ruck men are hard to find and both would effectively miss most of next year.