TGR

Agree. With Daniel Cross it is the opposite in that I didn't rate him until he was wearing red and blue. With Lumumba though, yes even Collingwood supporters didn't mind him walking out the door, before they got anything. He was a guy that didn't kick enough goals for me or impact centre/offence enough. But would I get him in hindsight, despite the question marks that still exist? Yes. Why? Because he provides the one thing that this chronically introverted team could never really do. Take em on. Have a bounce. Break a line. If there is a stat on bounces and breaking lines, surely the demons of 2011-2014 was all time low. Even if you count it per capita possession. The influx of Lumumba and Garlett has taken us from negative to ground zero, in this important aspect (line breaking) of offensive necessity.

On the flip side you might be kidding yourself if you can't work out the speed kills us. (Exception Hawks?) Saints basically burned us twice and should have won the Jack Steven goal encounter by more. Bulldogs in the first half against us before we closed them down. The slow sides like Richmond, Collingwood (Clokes 8 straight on QB was the difference there surely), Geelong, and North (hopefully next week) don't have jets everywhere.

Love the last comment. But you can get this, if you are prepared for the "one out of 5". I am talking about the feedback loop here. Watts gets tackled. Holding the ball. Opposition jeer. Our own DH supporters criticise him with "Bloody hell Watts your hopeless".... The first bit of courage/brains needed is actually from us supporters to accept the 1 out of 5 holding-the-ball from him. The flip side is that the 4 out of 5 burst-throughs far out-weigh any downside from the 20% outcome.

Love this thread. Modern Australia, now courtesy of the right (Howard, Hanson, Abbott, Brandis, Bolt, Devine, Alan Jones), allows bigotry as some form of freedom of speech. Still can't work out why the "Haka" is so great, but the emerging Aboriginal war dance is too provocative. Keating predicted Howard would send us back to the 50's. The white-picket fences, flip toasters, etc.... Many supporters of the right suggest that 1996 was a turning point for our finances. I say it was a turning point for every other aspect of Australian life. Don't know how this Goodes thing will stop. Sydney supporters throwing eggs might be a bit too far. Maybe standing up at the footy for 10 seconds when someone behind you boos him, might hit the spot a little better. My prediction is that the AFL/Sydney will use a dead-rubber to stage a total walk-off by players and officials. It will be a win-win without too much damage, and will be a ratings bonanza for the network.

Whilst I thought I percentage would be better in 2015, I think what a lot of supporters are missing is that our 2014 was actually overrated. I spoke to Fan before the year about how we would go, and I recall saying that if you look at our fixture in 2014, it was amazing how we were gifted in terms of opposition suspension and key players injured. Check it out. On that basis alone, I thought that 2015 was only going to be mild improvement at best.

Maybe your biggest call

Agree with TimD, and being a little Careyesque, Nathan Jones would probably not have captained if he played for any other club. The 2007-2013 Dees have been the biggest bunch of sporting introverts and followers that have probably graced a footy field. Not having a go at them, but definitely having a go at the brains trust that drafted and presumably before interviewed these prospects. This brains trust wouldn't couldn't spot a leader if their face was glued to an ass.

While the AFL and Wayne Campbell and the umps are knee-jerking over 3rd man up like little nervous nellies, who knows what to train for in relation to the ruck, Between you and me, Roos being the king of slow play stoppages, I would guess that they do quite a bit (away from our eyes too).

Who knows, our rebuild may have been Bulldogs/StKilda like if we had not handed Port their next captain (and Brisbane's current); and handed Brisbane and AA ruckman when we had absolutely nothing in the ruck. Roos is the teflon man. Simpletons may disagree, but the MFC need him to be the siht dartboard for another 12 months. One thing we do well at Melbourne is kill coaches. We are the coach killing premiers. Settle down. Take a bex. Hang on this slow, predictable ultra-defensive ride. Keep booking September holidays for 15 and 16. Roos will get us to ground zero and then the true rebuild begins. I give some credit to Roos in that I have seem some attempt at flair recently. Our play-on stat has jumped in the past few weeks.

Oh yeh. I would rather Watts be a role model for my kids over and above most AFL players.

Geelong was saying that about Hawkins v. Selwood surely. For the first 5 years at least. OK to have a go at Watts and expect more; but insignificant when you consider we let slip Port's next captain, and to a lesser extent Brisbane's current one. Also, I might add, letting that multi-dimensional tall go in Martin (who is in contention for AA), and keeping Spencer and Jamar and co... Watts is what he is. We picked him. FWIW, I feel better when Watts is playing. He certainly understands Roos/Goodwin's game plan better than any other player. And finally, I don't doubt Goodes' hurt for one moment. I feel sorry for him as the football following public are mostly a bunch of simpleton's and sheep anyway. But I tell you what. Jack Watts has had it harder and longer than Goodes has...to be truthfully honest. Not one sulk, when so many would have walked away for less. Watts might not be the most physically imposing player we have, but I reckon he is mentally tougher than most; including all here, most players, most people full stop....bar Julia Eileen. pTGR

A dinosaur in the ruck....hmmm So 1915.

Roos' recruiting of established AFL players (rejects or those on the cusp like Mumford) is second to none. So the Tyson trade....I agree, BUT doesn't not have anything to do with match-day-coaching innovation. When Roos says, "I am sorry for the fans" after a loss; I for one can take all of this, and will; but give me a little innovation and dare at the same time. Stanley was not on any teams radar as a ruckman surely. Played much more at the Saints as a mobile forward....but granted, I didn't see them too much.

No, that is the Roos mantra. Chris Scott could say the same and leave Dawson Simpson in the ruck. Beveridge could do the same and put Cordy v. Sandilands. I agree, that we have a lot of basics to sort out. But FCS, surely tinkering at the side with a bit of innovation wont unravel the whole process seam by seam. I have no doubt that Roos is one of the best coaches going around; and I am on record, unlike many here, saying this pre-2005 flag. But his biggest and maybe only weakness is his failure to innovate. I don't think anyone can argue against it.

I know Roosy doesn't like thinking too much outside the square, but Geelong may force his hand this week. Scott has overhauled and revolutionised his ruck-stocks for basically nothing over the past few years. Watts might get the job initially. Our other ruck can't be treacle especially if Stanley plays. Geelong have potentially 2 monsters forward in Clark and Hawkins. Maybe Cloke showed us that Tom Mc hasn't the body yet to match up on these types; so a run around with Blicavs might not be out of the question.

By virtue of necessity (Pedo injured), Watts and Howe took some centre bounces, and did OK. I know the ruck contest is a dangerous position for the immature bodies and/or poor technique; but we should have seen glimpses of this in the past in cameos etc... Chris Scott will force Roos to again think proactively and radically in the ruck this week. Watts or Cross????? on Blicavs. I would go Tom Mc. If Stanley plays, we might need to think of a Howe type around the ground with him.

Have we got a black'n'white instagram pic or slide of young Jack having a go at the older school bully?

Many here can knit-pick at his odd mis-kick etc.. This bloke is so un-Melbourne and will have a huge say in changing our culture. He has heart and guts and gives 100% every minute. So many credits in the bank, it aint funny. Injuries aside, Brayshaw, Viney and Kent in the middle in the 2019 GF might be a pipe-dream, but they will stand up on the last day.

Irrespective of the scoreboard over the past 7 days, I just reckon we are finally seeing some Sydney-like in-close quick hands ala mid 2000s. The chain of handballs that I have witnessed against Collingwood, and now St.Kilda, have been as good as I have seen in the game....period. We still need speed by foot, and courage to take them on (read later) and maturing bodies; but I if the past week is anything to go by, our handball in heavy traffic is potentially A-grade. If we can sustain it, it will be elite. The other thing is.... If we as Melbourne supporters want to encourage our players to be more daring and brave (to take them on and break lines), we need to expect the odd holding the ball. Lumumba, McDonald, Watts and Co. just have to keep taking them on.

We spent 8 seconds celebrating Howe's goal, instead of perhaps running back, glancing at the bench (for time remaining) and setting up. Roos knew exactly what to do. Read his lips at the 41 second mark; he knew exactly what to do. This is not about match day coaching; although TGR would have tried to get Garlett in the game a bit more. This is more an indictment on Jones, Lumumba, Vince, Crossy (who did peel back), our mids (who left St.Kilda a whole quadrant and a half and allow Jack Steven a free run and 2 possessions in the chain), and other leaders. Watts does a hell of a lot of thinking throughout the match, implementing the game plan...and structures at each stoppage, but could have been pointing and instructing as soon as Howe's goal was going through.

Maybe Watts on Blicavs next week; or Bernie. Maybe the injury to Stanley will mean we don't have to combat both of them. The ruckman against Geelong doesn't know who or what he is up against at most stoppages.

When I watched him train preseason, I saw him butcher kicks and announced on here he wont get a game until June. You could still get 26/1 on him 2 weeks ago for the NAB award. Lucky I did a 180. Can't think of another kid who just does all the basics extremely well.

I think Chris Scott has beaten a lot of coaches to the rucking panacea. A poster once spoke about multi-dimensional-talls a while back. Chris Scott has single-handedly raised the Geelong-rebuild-trough with his innovation and forward thinking with ruckmen. Blicavs and Stanley were obtained for basically nothing. Scott's use of them has been brilliant. Blicavs on Pendelbury, allowing the 3rd man up to tap away from the tag was a master-stroke. Howe should be one dominant player in our 3rd man up strategy. Meanwhile, Melbourne give away Jolly & Stef Martin and keep Jamar and Spencer. No player in history has reaped big reward from one 4-goal game. No other club have got ruckmen so wrong like this club. Thankfully, Roos and Co. have not made the mistakes of the past; but they haven't been as innovative as Chris Scott either. If any club should 3rd-man-up it is Melbourne....and the stats suggest we are pretty missionary when it comes to rucking. Its Gawn or nothing in my book. His tap at that offensive stoppage into the hot spot to Pedo was gold.

I think the coaching staff might have erred too. Sometimes they don't get every matchup right. Sometimes the balance between reacting (and changing) and persisting (trust...no panic) is a fine line. I like the 3 word analysis; but it fails to take into consideration coaching box issues.

Toumpas - decision-making non-existent Viney - played on one (leg) Lumumba - took em on Brayshaw - rye sing star Gawn - our only ruck Cross - our best hands Garland - psychologically looking backward Pedersen - absolute shocking day (decision-making and execution) Vince - The joker's rising McDonald - Not matched up (well) Garlett - Pagan's paddock king Fitzpatrick - worth persevering with vandenBerg - impacted before injury Melbourne - should have won Melbourne - handball A class Collingwood - early September exit