TGR

Then there is Mark Robinson. Gutter journalism. Pub-talk. Thinks he can summarise everything in a question that probably doesn't need answering anyway.How this guy is so prominent for the Herald Sun & Fox is beyond me. The worst of the worst. And most bloggers and supporters have a go at Caroline Wilson! She has a brain and can string 2 words together. He is all rhetoric and bluff and adds zero.

I jumped on Freo in late April when they were 17/1. Even Freo/Rabbitos was 75/1 and Freo/Roosters was 100/1. But what worries me is that a side like Richmond have the wood over Hawthorn. Richmond are the opposite of Freo. They hardly tackle and press etc. That is why I think I will lose my investments and Hawthorn might win by 28. Hope I'm 29 points off.

Not disrespectful at all. Surely the death of JMac was a huge galvanising and motivating force for Port for season 2013. The level of hurt now is still significant, but nowhere near the levels of one year ago. Do the maths.

Since his appointment Roos has often referred to Melbourne as a "2 win - 56 percentage team". I think there are 4 ways we can go in 2014. Usually 5 ways, but because we were that bad, we can't get any worse. So the 4 ways we can go will be: - No improvement - which will be a failure. Similar wins, similar percentage, similar non-competitiveness, similar it is the 2nd quarter and the game is over. - Major improvement ala Port Adelaide - Unlikely....as this is a once in a decade phenomenon at best. The sceptic would say "they won 5 games by single digit margins (4 by less than a goal). Their wins included GWS twice, MFC once, Gold Coast twice, The JMac drive wont be as high in 2014 either, so I expect them not to make the 8 in 2014." Port was a "5 win - 78% team" in 2012 probably shows a better rebound position in terms of percentage, compared to Bulldogs (who had equal wins in 2012), Gold Coast (who had 2 less wins in 2012) - Moderate improvement ala Gold Coast. Gold Coast in 2012 were a "3 win - 60 percentage team". In 2013, they became an "8 win - 90 percentage team". I think this is the best-case we can realistically hope for. - Mild improvement ala Bulldogs. From year (2012) to year (2013), this was mild improvement. From first half of this year, to latter, it was moderate plus. They finished 15th in 2012, and 15th in 2013, but only a fool would suggest no improvement. But the percentage went from 67% in 2012, to 85% in 2013. When Neeld's Melbourne and McCartney's Bulldogs were both under the pump earlier in the year, one stat was remarkably different. Melbourne was 18th in contested possession, whereas the bulldogs were top 5. Maybe this stat is where everything starts....but percentage reflects more than we might think. A good result will be a percentage 80-90, which will reflect much more competitiveness, less blow-outs, and being in games for longer. I think this is the key. RRE might say 6 wins in 2014, 9 wins in 2015, 12 wins in 2016....etc. I say 78-83% in 2014 as the starting point. Roos will be like Ross Lyon (or vice versa). They won't be outcome driven like us supporters tend to be. The score won't matter as much as the process, the role, the internal expectations the KPPs.

OTC last night: Stuey Dew apparently applies for our main job....Swans have denied him this opportunity. Roos didn't deny George Stone More Swans to want to come here surely. Nobody mentioning Kirk from Freo. Lets see what goes on next week.

Humble kid. Anyone that knew him at SKevs (Year 7) and Scotch would say he hasn't changed a bit. I'm sure he'd be thinking about returning home now. I reckon he is the Lleyton Hewitt of the AFL. He aint blessed with talent, but how he can blanket your quick small forwards amazes me year after year. His kicking hits targets, and he would lead the Swans for shepherds/blocks I reckon. Solid character and has 4 years left in him. Roos would know if he had what it took to play on-ball. I don't think Swans have ever contemplated using him there. Whether that is because he is so good as a defensive small, or whether he aint got the tank etc....not many know, including most of us.

Roos canvassed this OTC a few weeks ago. Once he is Melbourne, it is F the rest. The thing with Roos is that, to me, he seems to have a hands-on approach to the up and coming kids. Obviously, his role at the academy bolsters this. Any MFC supporters that have ever whinged about 1.5m, should have a good look at themselves. We are getting the total package. A guy that knows the straightest path to September and its style of footy. A guy that is a PR machine to football peanuts and more importantly, non-football peanuts. A guy that is a pseudo-recruiter. We are getting massive value for money. The point is, if Colless is peed-off now, wait till Sydney's season is over.

Doesn't matter what I think; but for what its worth there are a few Sydney Swans with Melbourne family. Nick Smith, and the Xavier Boys (Dan Han, JPK, Ted etc..) are a good start. Roos might get the "go home factor" brewing more from within. Who knows. As for staff, Roos would have some idea of the capabilities of Tudor (not my cup-of-tea), Dew and other less well-known. Only 2 things really matter. Who Roos thinks is worth getting; and who is willing to come across.

I'm looking forward to when Sydney lose. Only then will we know the wants of current Sydney staff and players. Surely there will be one or two that are looking to either (a) return to Melbourne and/or (b) reunite with Roos. The other thing is Freo Assistant Captain Kirk; we haven't heard too much about him. So a couple of dominos will fall after the last game of Sydney/Freo sTGR

As Belzawhatever suggests, Roos did initiate the conversation as he explained On The Couch. I guess not many things are black and white in Roos' world; unlike Neeld. Roos has the huge self confidence to either assess a bonefide DH or convert him. Never forget Roos' quote after Jason Ball missed a soda from out in front. "I've moved on....so should you."

Dustin Martin is one of the players to watch in the AFL. Ability-wise he is A1; and he has the biggest ass and fend-off in football. But the guy is a train-wreck. If guys like Cotchin (who moved in with him for a month), and Williams, and Richardson and....and....can't settle him down, we have no hope. I don't know what happened to Roos' "no DH policy". I have faith in Roos, but if he can turn Bull Martin into a saint by converting him into a demon, then even that would shock me. No from me.

Indictment on Jamar that the post-prime Jolly is considered. Should go with just Gawn & Fitz IMO

Dead buried cremated?

H, Tuck and Jones are interesting... I'd suspect selection committee would choose one of Tuck or Jones. Tuck has been on one-year deals for a while hasn't he; which means that no other club has been willing to give him 2 for while. On the other hand...don't forget how bad we actually were in 2012. We can get too excited about Jones' year considering the carp he is referenced against. Frawley? My goodness. The classic chook with his head cut off. No conviction with the ball. No sense of purpose. Wouldn't be in my starting merged side. Steven Morris is unlucky not to get picked IMO; and that is where your side falls down. Who will get the gig on a Cyril Rioli/Stephen Milne? Morris is tough, courageous and semi-quick. His foot-skills aint as bad as the pundits think. 14/22 looks within reach; but Trent Cotchin is worth 2; so make it 15 in my book. I was questioned when calling him the best mid in the comp in June, but by Brownlow night, this didn't look as stupid. His workrate is upper-echelon; and what he does after giving off, should be benchmark at any club, professional or other. He either protects who he has just off-loaded to; or he runs to space to be an option. Clark & Howe...no doubt. Would play in most teams. I don't think Jack Riewoldt is a bonefide full-forward, if there is such a thing in modern footy. Foley is as injury-prone as D.Grimes, so they might as well be both in...or both out. Blease might be able to provide the speed that only the light Nahas can muster near goal. Blease would get a gig for me. That speed addition would allow me to drop Titch Edwards in favour for Watts who would do well getting less attention on the flank...and give you versatility. In your side, a lot of your backs and forwards can't be swapped to the other end of the ground. Watts gives you this ability. I'm a Tapscott man; so he'd be my emergency. In summary, I can't work out how Steven Morris doesn't get in; and how Frawley starts as your bookend. As for coach? Neeld? No. Dimma? Probably. As for the Malcolm Blight role as old mentor in the box, do we go with Swoop (played and coached Tigers; Coached Melbourne) or Wallet (barracked for the dees; and coached Richmond)?

Warning: This thread will self-destruct when it reaches 38 pages.

Most of us have been involved with these boards for years. Some of us have got it right on occasions; while many have got it wrong. Unfortunately for all of us, the club has got it wrong time and time again. It is an indictment on most of us who have put certain types of footballers up on a pedestal. How many of us have put up a 'Jude Bolton' as a target or example? It is only after a Sydney flag, or his stats that show no other player has tackled more, that we suddenly acknowledge him as an elite player that we underrated for too long. A Tom Harley quote (courtesy of the Demonology carcus) suggested "offence sells memberships; defence wins premierships". A decade ago, a spine was supposed to win you one. Then it was a list of stars. Maybe it is just a group of competitive hungry animals that don't tolerate failure. The MFC is in the midst of the deepest malaise in my lifetime. In the 70s, twelfth was as low as we could go. This year we were in a battle for 18th. Players can only be tempted here if we pay well above the odds. I cannot recollect a player who wanted to come here; and yet we are still scratching our heads about the value of one that desperately wants to. Several have been quoted as saying like Sheedy, "Lucky, because I could have ended up at Melbourne" instead of Richmond. We have been the poisoned challace of the AFL for 50 years. Now, most would rather die of thirst than take a sip. The plus on Neeld is that he obviously recognises this. The minus on him is that he is willing to throw the baby and the bathroom out with the bathwater. The MFC has been too ready to follow-the-leader in the past decade. Whoever won the flag, was invariably the all-in-style we wanted to follow, despite our playing personnel's capability to pull it off. Team-defence, followed by run'n'carry, followed by the-press, ending up in our fascination in all things Collingwood one year ago. What is different this time is that the reigning premiers really represent everything we haven't been. For a decade they have been respected. For a decade they have refused to bottom-out. For a decade they have not had the luxury of our plethora of early draft picks. All this in spite of the so-called appalling game-style they played for 90% of this time. Many of us have whinged like children watching Sydney play in the past decade. In reality, they have played September football all year round; and we didn't know it. So how do you build a brotherhood? After all, the title of this thread could be seen as quite rhetorical. Have a read of the Jack Viney-Ollie Wines article in The Age this morning. Mates-for-life and competitive beasts. The types that can pull this club out of this deepest malaise. Types that would play for each other and the jumper. Types that would make a supporter proud irrespective of the scoreboard. Types that could get us through the longest rebuild in AFL history. Types that would hang around for the long haul. At draft time, clubs often battle with the notion of picking the best available player against the player-type that they most need. Our plight is so severe, we must also consider the fraternity of the future list.

Whatever the price, we must pay it. We are in the midst of an era whereby players will jump ship. Scully & Goddard have set the scene. How many times did Goddard fist his St.Kilda heart? Players won't tolerate playing for chronic basketcases anymore. Money and success will mean more to most. Even if Viney is considered a pick 6, the MFC must get him at any cost. Viney is an extremely rare commodity. Hard, tough, no-nonsense and WANTS to play for the MFC. Who has wanted to come here in the past few decades? Don't give me that fringe ageing superannuant we signed a few days ago either. This club already has the Naitanui egg on its face. It won't double-dip by missing out on a young Lenny Hayes who will lead the red'n'blue.