deelusions from afar

Port's approach to their defence is interesting. Ratugolea showed promising signs in defence as an individual this year... but Geelong's defence looked much better once he was no longer in the team. To me they need a lockdown defender to allow Allir to go third man up. Instead they're chasing two defenders that haven't been able to play the lock down role in Ratugolea and BZT. Odd

Could mean that he plans to leave at the end of 2025. But it could also mean he's backing himself in to have a big year in 2024 (eg playing forward every week and hopefully injury free) to command a bigger contract.

Maybe wrong thread for this but I don't think Sullivan will get to 11 will he?

It's a good point. I'm hoping it's because they wanted to know they had the $650k freed up for something in the next few days

Improvement in teams often comes from players already on the list. One of the upsides for us is that we have a handful of kids who have shown glimpses of talent but been unable to crack in permanently because other than the key forwards, our side has been so set. By this I mean: Woewodin, Turner, Laurie, Howes, Andy Moniz-Wakefield (There's a handful of others who have got a bit of developing to go). They're unlikely to all make it, but I suspect there's a few there that will become long term players in the senior side. Next year they will get their chance after 2-3 years building their bodies, fitness and learning the game style at Casey.

If we were able to do a salary dump deal with GWS to net pick 7, would 6 and 7 get Harley done? Surely 6,7,11 is too much?

Might be onto something - North need Key Position Players... but obviously you have to take best available at the point end of the draft. The top 3 are midfielders and there's a couple of Key Position Players in the 6-12 window?

This is interesting. On its face it's not a fantastic deal for us. But does it do the following (someone else can correct where I get it wrong): Frees up approx $650k (in addition to Harmes, Hibbo, Jordon etc) - so we are preparing a war chest for the GWS salary dump or a highly paid player (maybe even next year); It gives us an extra pick next year - which gives us more flexibility in terms of trading future picks this year; and It gives us a pick which we might use on McAdam or Fullarton?

If it's current can we infer the able to train i.e. not still injured?

Both look great prospects - but if we were looking at them and Osullivan (if we have the picks, is that going to address our need for run and foot skills?

At the end of the day, despite what Lamby says day 1 of the trade period, we're not going to hold on to Grundy. Even though we can, it's just not going to happen. I reckon Sydney will call our bluff and we'll get him for a later pick than last year.

YES!! I have been posting about him being a good target in a number of threads. He clearly has ability (as a forward and ruck) but given Brisbane's stocks in that area (Big O, Daniher, Hipwood etc) he's got limited opportunities. 24yo - mature body, 200cm - can mark and kick! He is EXACTLY what we need IMO - more so than a key forward. And shouldn't cost too much given his limited opportunities.

There's NO WAY Crows let this guy go with Walker in the twilight of his career

While I rate Naughton and it would be incredible to bring in someone of that quality... I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we are just a quality key forward away from fixing our scoring woes. (though admittedly having someone of that quality could have made the difference against Collingwood and surely would have made the difference against Carlton given how close we were - so maybe the rest of it doesn't matter)

Watching GWS / Pies / Lions etc I too wish we played with a bit more dare. However, I think your comment here is a bit of a stretch and unfair to say they're bored of Goodwin. Firstly because this is all hearsay coming from Tom Morris. Secondly because the comments were about the assistant coaches moreso than Goody.

Some really good comments in this thread - at least we've mostly got past people assuming what ex-players are known for as players is all they can coach. I've got no idea if Stafford can coach - but those potting him because he was a ruckman is completely unfair imo. I think our forwardline is very difficult to coach - partly because we are a defensively minded team and partly because that area of the ground we have had less talent / stars than the other parts of the ground. The forward line can function a lot better with the key personnel on the park and better ball movement from the team as a whole. So - I would love to see someone come in that can help with our ball movement - ideally without it costing us too much on turnover - but that's a balance we're going to need to find. Do we have the kicking skills that the pies and GWS have in their midfields to do it? Probably not - but if our prime movers are not predominantly kicking from congestion then maybe our skills are better than what it seems (I suspect this is the case). Would love to get someone like Don Pyke for this - as he has a proven record with Adelaide and Sydney at turning this around. But if he's going to be the WCE CEO then we'll have to look elsewhere. In terms of freshening up the coaching team, would be good to get someone experienced - Pyke / McQualter / Dew etc and potentially someone who's recently out of the game - this should freshen things up for the players. Think of Geelong post 2021 - replacing all the assistants and looking like they were over the hill.. a flag the next year! I've loved the insights from Phil Davis on Whatley in recent weeks but suspect he's going down more the administration side of things.

C'mon the pies pay unders because they're a big club, always have. If we were trying to get McStay we would have to pay more (and it's harder for us compared to pies / tiges / blues etc to entice the big fish in the first place). Maybe McStay isn't the best example - but that's not the point. Who are the "options out there" that you mention? I used McStay because he was "the best" key forward that moved last year and is hardly A grade. I agree that JVR is still a way off - but if he has Petty there, ideally a resting ruck/forward from time to time then it's less of an issue and allows him to develop quicker. Against the pies, it was him and TMac (who looks done) and Fritsch was coming back from injury. He looked great when Petty was in the same forward line. Not saying in an ideal world we wouldn't get another ready made key forward. Just saying to get one that is better than what we have will cost (a lot) and may reduce our ability to address what i think are greater needs - backup ruck or ruck/forward and some pace and class in the middle. So who are the options?

That's a fair enough response. I guess my follow up question then is who are the "options out there"? My hunch is that it is very hard to look good as a Melbourne forward - a lot of that is about the way we play in terms of priding ourselves on contest and defence. Assuming they are injury free, I think Petty / JVR can do the job (particularly in a forward line that also has Smith, Fritsch and McAdam). In an ideal world we would have more but the reality is that every side has strengths and weaknesses on their list. Do we really want to sell the farm (which is what it could take) to get a better than average forward (this year's McStay) when we have more pressing needs? By this I mean a backup ruck or ruck/forward, coverage for May and speed/class in the middle / half back.

Agree with this. In my view they don't have to be a great disposer of the ball but they need to be able to compete in the air. Our game plan (as per most teams) revolves around kicking long to our ruckman when there isn't another option. I'm not sure whether I have faith in a guy like Schache to who has the skills but not the size or presence.

Collingwood have McStay and Mihocek who are hardly world beaters Port have Dixon and .... Lord ?? (who's played less games than JVR) Brisbane have two big key targets but this is the first year they've really got it together. Of course I'd love Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron etc but we're not going to be able to bring someone like that in.

I posted elsewhere - I feel like many on here are buying into the media's argument that we don't have a key forward. The reality is we've got Petty, JVR with Jefferson developing. Then we have 2-3 agile medium forwards in Smith, Fritsch and likely McAdam / Melkshem. It's not the problem it's made out to be - we were unlucky to have our two talls out for carlton and fritsch still on his way back from injury. What we are missing is the 200cm resting ruckman. We tried with Grundy but he's an extra midfielder that rucks rather than a player that is comfortable taking contested marks. Do we really want to have JVR taking the ruck when Gawn is off in 2024? What about when he gets injured? Can Gawn continue to play 80+ game time going forward and be fresh in September? I've said it before but we should be going after the best forward / ruck going around. He doesn't have to kick a bag each week - but if he kicks his one or two most weeks and rucks when Gawn needs a rest then that is what we need. I'd be going after Tom Fullerton but I'm sure there's other options. Seperate from that I'd be going after good ball users in the middle

I feel like many on here are buying into the media's argument that we don't have a key forward. The reality is we've got Petty, JVR with Jefferson developing. Then we have 2-3 agile medium forwards in Smith, Fritsch and likely McAdam / Melkshem. It's not the problem it's made out to be - we were unlucky to have our two talls out for carlton and fritsch still on his way back from injury. What we are missing is the 200cm resting ruckman. We tried with Grundy but he's an extra midfielder that rucks rather than a player that is comfortable taking contested marks. Do we really want to have JVR taking the ruck when Gawn is off in 2024? What about when he gets injured? Can Gawn continue to play 80+ game time going forward and be fresh in September? I've said it before but we should be going after the best forward / ruck going around. He doesn't have to kick a bag each week - but if he kicks his one or two most weeks and rucks when Gawn needs a rest then that is what we need. I'd be going after Tom Fullerton but I'm sure there's other options. Seperate from that I'd be going after good ball users in the middle

I reckon if we're in touch at quarter time / half time then we will run them off their feet.

My interpretation: Tommo in to play on TDK / allow Lever to not take a big target / rest Hibbo Jordon in to cover Brayshaw midfield minutes / allow Trac to spend more time forward Spargo in for inside 50 delivery and manic pressure - with that many small forwards (Spargo / Kozzie / Chandler /ANB) if you're not running your [censored] off the whole time you get replaced by the one resting on the bench! My fear is that I think our forward pressure should be great with a smaller / aggressive forward line which means we get the front half turn over game that we apparently crave. The problem is that if we get the turnovers in the forward half, we kick it back inside 50 before it has emptied out (we know how that goes). It's far better to get the turnovers up the ground to have a more open 50.

Can we throw all our picks at the dogs and ask for Naughton? They've got too many tall key position players there anyway - they should be playing Naughton or Darcy back in my view. I can't believe there isn't more heat on Beveridge with the amount of talent he has had at his disposal since winning the flag for very little to show for it - surely there's unrest there? Naughton can't have enjoyed his foot this year with the way the dogs played. (Having said that, coming to play in Melbourne's forward line is hardly an attractive proposition!)