deelusions from afar

It Mitch Georgiades really that good? I thought he was struggling to get a game last year and that was pre-knee. I know key forward take time but he's on the shorter side the way the games going (1.92) - when we already have Fritsch, Smith and Melksham. I would have thought someone with some size that is a threat for the dump kick / can pinch hit in the ruck would be a better fit (but I know we were keen on Mitch in his draft year and there's always whispers about him each year).

I reckon there will be an announcement that Simpson will not be coaching WCE beyond this year - there's not way he would have allowed his team to win on the weekend if he was coaching next year!

I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by 'take' - I was referring to you mentioning that the reason why Spargo is in the twos is to build up his endurance to play his role more effectively in the 1s (ie better tank to get to more contests). And interesting "take" as well re what you say about the round 1 team. It makes sense - but of course there is a full season in between which has to take into account form, fitness, and importantly what has worked structurally throughout the season. Although a lot of us here are haggling about the best forward balance / setup - I actually think it's more about the midfield and defence - if they are closing the outlets then the extra smalls putting on pressure works very well. Equally having extra tall targets works if the pressure is up as they get more chances on turnover (obviously too many lumbering types like Max and BBB can quickly become a liability if everything else isn't working).

It's amazing how you can slice and dice stats in different ways. I'm not (necessarily) disagreeing with you but think a bit of context is helpful. As in: the recent games we played with Grundy in are (Geelong, GWS, St Kilda and Carlton). At least three of these were in the wet (can't remember if Geelong was?). In the Geelong and GWS ones we kick 5.15 and 8.15 respectively. Is it Grundy's fault that we kicked so inaccurately? And while it was low scoring against Carlton, we very nearly beat them (arguably we did with the Petracca kick). So when they are the in-form side, does it matter that our score was low if it was good enough to win? As I noted elsewhere, essentially all our goals in the second half (at least) came when Grundy rucked and we gave up 3 from stoppages when Gawn was rucking early in the last. How can we say we would have done better without Grundy in the team. I'm still not sure what our best mix is (even moreso when Fritsch returns) but I think Grundy has been a lot better than people realise. My main concern with him is his ability to defend if he is up against a ruckman who is a threat when drifting forward.

Isn't it in WC's interest to say they are "strongly considering" Reid whether they are or they aren't just like North / us / Hawthorn etc saying they're strongly considering Curtin? Similarly seemingly someone (from Reid's camp?) has put it out there that he doesn't want to go to WA. He'll deny it publicly of course as he doesn't want to look like a prima donna... but West Coast would know whether or not it is true. This time of year is all smoke and mirrors if it helps you get what you want.

Interesting take - but can we can have him, ANB, Kozzie and Chandler in the one side? I remember Spargo spending time on the wing a few times last year and getting found out for pace and in marking contests - but potentially it was his tank. We definitely miss his foot skills - I guess with Clarry back, it's better to have Spargo forward than a combination of Sparrow / Jordon when they are not in the midfield or on the bench.

Thanks! Can't believe he's not in the team or the sub. Hope he's not injured

I'm a bit confused about how this works (should know by now I know). Surely Hibberd is one of the extended bench? If so why does he get listed as "out"?

I think he deserves another week. His ruck impact was good and he wasn't terrible forward - in pretty tough key forward conditions. If Smith doesn't work forward this weekend, what lever do we have to pull with the sub? Grundy doesn't have to have huge impact (Jacko didn't in most games in 2021) but we can't expect it all to click on one night with rough conditions against the most inform team.

It's great to be in this kind of position where we will be able to draft or trade in some quality this year (after a solid year and a number of promising youngsters developing in the VFL). Assuming Petty is able to get on the park next year and play forward (and the likes of May and Max can keep up their form), the main glaring weakness I think is some more outside run with excellent finishing skills. When we drafted Bowey and Laurie, that was the plan. Potentially Bowey could be tried at half forward to play that role. I'm not convinced Laurie is going to make it with us. I get you go best available at the pointy end, but from what I've seen none of Reid, Curtin, Watson fill the need we need most (not saying I wouldn't want us to draft them). Who at the pointy end best suits our list if we're in win now mode?

I like Spargs but don't think we can play with him, Kozzie, Chandler and ANB in the one side unless one is getting significant midfield minutes?

Have they ever both played good games on the same weekend? 🤔

Agree with most of that. I find it hard to think that Hibberd can't get in the side - he has been very good this year. Not wanting to pot Bowey on the basis of a fumble but is Hibberd ahead of him on form. He certainly was before getting injured earlier this year. I like Bowey but wonder with McVee and Salem already back there maybe his foot skills are not as critical? The sub is tricky - i think Melksham and Smith have been perfect as they have the ability to take over from slower key position players when we need run in the last quarter and a bit (eg BBB, Tomlinson). Which leads me back to having Hibberd as sub to take over from Tomlinson (as you had!) Maybe with Fritsch back they will have to put Smith or Melksham as the sub?

Agree re we can't take Hawthorn lightly as they have beaten a number of top teams. But don't agree re Goody's comments - surely you realise what he says publicly is going to be different from what is said internally? Of course they don't to be behind at any point but we're playing against competitive teams that are doing what they can to maximise their strengths and thwart ours. It is important for the team (and supporters) to know they can come back when they are down in big matches (eg 2021 3rd Quarter and the commentators are saying "The bont has one hand on the cup and the other on the norm smith) they won't believe than can come back. It's a competitive comp - no team in it is able to dominate from start to finish. We are as well placed as any other side in it right now.

I think I'd keep Grundy in this week and bring Smith forward. Probably have Tomlinson in the side and Hibberd as the sub - Hibberd deserves a full game but I think it's good to have an option to replace Tomlinson if we need more run from defence at the end of the match.

I seem to be a bit of an outlier from the way most people saw the game... but Grundy turned the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters when he went into the ruck. 3rd Quarter clock had 13:15 left, Grundy comes on with scores 6.6. 42 to 4.4.28 Carlton's way. When Gawn comes back on it 6.6.42 to 6.4.40 Carlton's way. No more goals in the quarter (we got two more points) 4th Quarter, Max is rucking at the start when we give up 3 quick goals resulting from 2 centre clearances (Oliver wasn't in the centre either) and another starting from a throw in. Grundy comes on at 9.6.60 to 6.6.42 Carlton's way with 15:42 on the clock. We kicked two goals in the next 4min period and then Max was back on. We didn't kick any more goals from then on (though as we all know we had decent opportunities to) Maybe Max had an injury - but the TDK / Pittonet combination seemed to trouble him. Having Brodie in the side made a big difference. Brodie didn't do a lot up forward but I'm not sure if Petty (or anyone else) would have made a huge difference - the game style was quite different to other weeks. I think it's worth persisting with (maybe keep Smith forward). Also think there's plenty of ways they can manage this better - as others have pointed out, when we're kicking in Brodie shouldn't be in the same vicinity as Max (it means he's got to mark against both their men). Brodie also looks a bit lost when we have to defend and he's in the ruck - it just doesn't feel like they're currently maximising their strengths. I don't think TMac is the answer - so hopefully they can get this to click the next few weeks.

Agree with you on all of that - although maybe not quite as confident as you about this weekend ... but maybe I'm just managing my expectations (or mental health) should we not get up!

@binman or anyone else listen to Sando's Strategy session on Whatley today? I again think he's overrated. He references losing McDonald (I think he meant Petty) and then goes on to talk about the different styles of Melbourne and Carlton. He said Carlton is all about winning at the contest and defending really well. I thought our mantra was "contest and defence"? He said Melbourne will want it to be a fast transitional free flowing game whereas Carlton will want methodical, stoppage, scoring from contest. But also said how Melbourne had scored so many goals from stoppage last week. And also said Carlton's great wins this year have come from turnovers in the transition coming back the other way. 🤔 In my view both teams are quite similar in style. Both pride themselves in winning the ball in the contest and score that way when they can. The other way they score is through turnovers (as do almost every other team). Why do people rate Sando?

Didn't May keep Curnow quiet in our last match against them? Surely as their only key target he would play on him again? Smith for Martin?

I would think so as well. However, if he is not cooked... he may have timed his run well. We're currently running into finals with our main swing man / forward (Petty) down and out... and intending to rely on Smith (who has never had much luck staying on the park). TMac (who admittedly frustrates the bejesus out of me when playing) has the ability to play forward, back and has also relieved in the ruck previously. We're only an injury or two away from needing me... who knows... if he gets it together in the VFL he may get called on anyway.

I agree. We were getting all the media attention in 2018 and we know where that got us (as good as it was at the time). What we have now is far more consistent which is boring for the media

I'm sure they're getting in his ear right now saying that if he builds his body and works hard then there will be opportunities next year. I know key position players take longer... but I don't think anyone saw McVee playing all games this time last year. Big summer for Jefferson coming up!

You're preaching to the converted. But the reality is we are all in silos on our own teams. While many pies fans would be concerned, I'm sure there's others that are saying they've been loading and/or there's no motivation for dead rubber games and their effort will be back for the finals. I think many in the media are scarred by Melbourne losing all its matches the same way at the end of last year - seemingly with no ability to change the momentum of the game (except maybe against Carlton) once we lost it in the second half. There are so many signs which indicate this year is very different - but we don't currently know. Huge game against Carlton!

I'm definitely not going into bat for Josh Jenkins as i don't think I've ever heard him say anything special as an analyst. However, he's not wrong on a few things: With Petty's injury, the forward line IS still a question mark. I'm not overly concerned as 2021 showed that if the other parts of our game are in check then that's more important. We've got a few weeks to work out if its Smith / Grundy / BBB / Tmac. Brisbane had us on toast. However they have since lost Ashcroft and we will still get Oliver and Fritsch back - and more importantly, we found a way. The mainstream footy media love the knee jerk reactions (and anyone with opposing views to generate debate) but the reality is the finals are still a few weeks away - watch whoever wins in our match this week become the number 1 favourite next week.

Interestingly in 2021 (due to covid) we didn't train there either. Just sayin