rjay

...and may Santa bring us a premiership in 2018. Cheers to all and many thanks to the crew that bring us Demonland.

All being equal and both teams come out with best 22...we win. I'm confident in our ability as a top 4 team next year...

Would never question Bellamy on what it takes to prepare an NRL player for competition. ...but I would question his experience in preparing an AFL player. 2 different sports and no other AFL club is doing this type of training. Maybe they're all wrong as well... Kokoda is a whole different thing for those about to jump in with the Hawthorn example.

Probably about the same amount of time it takes sitting on your backside to learn a musical instrument. Probably similar to the time we spent watching the tele growing up. Maybe the same amount of time wasted on forums and facebook... The world moves on for better or worse...somethings are better, somethings are worse.

I always thought that 2 wrongs don't make a right. The old 'traccattack' may be his usual colourful self with his turn of phrase but maybe you might want to look at how your post reads.

I find this all interesting, maybe because I have no idea on how it works...it's not my thing/demographic. Someone posted on this Esports thing a while back and seemed to have a good handle on it. Maybe a good idea for a thread over the summer, could be educational for some of us so long as it sticks to the topic. Go for it...

If I was them, I would be more worried about lining up against Oliver, Viney and Petracca with Gawn in the ruck... ...and how is their depleted defence going to cope with Hogan, Tommy Mac and Jeffy... plus a lacklustre forward line that relies on Hawkins. I think we've got them covered

Yes 'Red', we're only one good "chopstick" away from this being old news...and the media moving on to the next outrage hopefully with another club. The AFL players have been a bit too well behaved this off season so far.

Ok, let me take a different angle on this. Why did the coach leave it until the last week to announce another boot camp? Did he know that the players weren't keen on it and kept it from them until the last minute. On this I'm only making a supposition, I do find it interesting though. The communication has been poor from both sides and as a club I wish we didn't have sides but a team working together. For some reason this wasn't the case and I wouldn't be laying the blame just with the players. The coach and FD have to take at least some responsibility for this years aborted camp and all the responsibility for last years debacle.

Yes, I noticed the guards had bolted and some players started to talk while others tried to sleep. No wonder we couldn't win. Interesting all the quoting of Moons and Spud & using it to back up the failure to make finals in 2017. ...but no one wants to quote the Champion data man who's take was we were just too young in 2017 so it was no surprise that we lost games we supposedly should have won. He also mentioned the "I" word, injury...but of course, no it was all down to mental fragility. The only mental fragility I can see is on this site. Start using some mental acuity crew and think through things a bit more clearly.

Personally, if the true number is 14 then I think who ever leaked the information from the AFLPA or the club should be hung, drawn and quartered. This whole biz should never have been leaked out in the first place...

...and that's the problem. I might have been a bit colourful with the nut job comment but if we didn't do our due diligence on the resources we can't guarantee that the providers were professional operators &/or highly skilled either. If they were surely they would have been better resourced. You just don't put your most expensive asset in someone else hands. It was a mistake, we move on.

'Ethan' the problem was lack of proper medical support for the injured players... During training sessions we have doctors (on hand or close by), physio's and qualified trainers on hand, not to mention a full compliment of coaches. Yes you can get injured but you also have a high level of support and care. ...and as 'Sat' always likes to tell us, when a player feels even the smallest niggle they are off and into rehab until it's sorted. It's just not consistent then to put players in the hands of a bunch of nut job commando's who want you to push your limits, push through the pain...it's just plain dumb. The camp was poorly organised...the sooner everyone understands this the better.

I don't It's a problem if the players don't feel like they can talk to Goody... For all the players man talk about him there is a disconnect and it needs to be repaired

Goodwin looks a good coaching prospect but is still only a 1st year coach... The 2 years under Roos don't count to experience of being in the actual drivers seat, all care & no responsibility. Pagan said the other day that he felt he didn't really get the hang of senior coaching until his 5th year. Plus he had years of coaching at lower levels to help prime him. Goodwin has made some classic 1st year mistakes to my thinking but luckily they don't seem to be fatal...yet The camp was poorly run last year and there was no point in going back over old ground with a new and improved camp. The players have saved his bacon this time as they have on other occasions. A maturing young group. Let's hope he has learned and we move on.

Waiting for Kokoda...someone had to say it. It's a totally different experience. It's not a boot camp and the whole club got involved, not just the players. By the way, do you think with their list they wouldn't have won flags if they didn't do Kokoda.

That's pretty well it. I was told the same at the time and thought the better of coming out directly about it on this forum although I hinted not all was well. Although others seemed to know better. The camp was poorly thought through, we basically left the group in the hands of others not qualified to train a professional football team. The players don't trust the process... If they are going to try something like this again (although to me it's a pointless exercise as 'george' pointed out above) then the coaches also need to be involved, be a part of it.

Goodwin alluded to the concern when he mentioned medical support...the whole thing was poorly run. You don’t put an elite team in the hands of amateurs.

If only the EFC players had of whinged to their union...

This was what caused the problems last time... They left too much in the hands of outsiders and didn't plan things properly. Forget bagging the players & injured players from last years camp, it was poorly done & it's no wonder the playing group don't want to go again. A couple of messages also come out of this for those pro the camp on this forum last time around. 1. Don't believe the players when they tell you what you want to hear...their actions prove they didn't think the camp was a good idea at all. 2. The proof of it's value (worthlessness) was there for all to see in the last game of 2017.

I would say the opposite, they've shown leadership here. Goodwin has made some classic first year coaching errors and the camp was one of them.

They didn't boycott 'Lucifer', they were asked and gave their opinion. It's good the FD are listening. The problem is you can't hand over a bunch of highly trained and well payed professional footballers to a bunch of nut jobs are not qualified to train highly tuned athletes...it was a dumb idea last year and not well handled, it might be handled better this year but still a dumb idea. We were lucky we didn't get more injuries last year.

As I said, it's not that simple. You don't know what the issue is with the players.

It's not as simple as this 'Dee'...

My view last year was that it wasn't a good idea and I still believe that to be the case. Interesting that despite comments to the contrary it appears the players were not that enamoured with it at all. You can't have outsiders with too much control.