Jaded No More

Without a doubt the midfield. While we need to find us some good small defenders that can take the likes of Davis, Didak and bloody nobodies like Brad Dick (where the hell is Garland!!! ), Grimes is much more of a natural midfielder, and is only playing down back to increase his accountability and due to a lack of fitness. He is certainly someone you drop back, ala Hodge, but in the long term his vision, decision making, courage and ball use is going to be a massive advantage to us in the middle. Same goes for Bennell. Our outside midfielders are so hopeless (non-existent some may say), that I really can't wait until the likes of Grimes (and Blease, and Strauss and Scully :D) start making their way there. Currently we have one good finisher in the middle, and that's Sylvia, and that's only because he is in rare form. If he drops off, we're back to nothing.

There is a big difference between trading for experience, and trading for Chris Judd or Nick Stevens! The only experience players you'll get out of a trade are those who are themselves not quite right, injury prone, or past their prime. Or alternatively you can try to headhunt Pavlich and lose a first round draft pick and a host of kids in return. Manufacturing success out of trade week has worked for nobody, with Sydney being the very rare exception, and that is only because they are willing to compromise their own draft position in order to achieve that. I rather develop a team from scratch and have them all grow up together, thus having a sustained period of success, than try to plug holes with other club's duds.

Good to hear. The last thing we need right now is a coach change or instability. DB has a plan, a game plan that he believes can win us finals (and a premiership), and unlike in previous years, he is out to find players who can deliver the game plan, as opposed to moulding a game plan around players who are not up to it. With each passing game, we are discovering who can and who can't deliver the goods. It would be so easy to change the game plan to try and master a few meaningless wins, but that would only inflate the value of players who are not up to it, and push us further and further away from a premiership. To expect miracles 18 months into a rebuild is completely irrational. To expect improvement isn't, and we have shown considerable improvement this year. The thing to remember is that young teams, particularly young teams with a young spine and senior players who play periphery roles, is that inconsistency is a given. We haven't got any senior players who we can rely on to give us a steady performance, with the possible exception of Green, who himself is no match winner. As a club, we learnt as much from yesterday's debacle as we did from our 7 point loss to the Dogs or our victory over Richmond.

There is more to winning the ruck contest than hitting the ball first. What Jamar does very well, and PJ never seems to, is protect the guys at ground level, and even feed the ball out himself. Basically, he does more than just hit the ball ever which way and then running off trying to get the ball. I know you're a big PJ fan, and I wish desperately that (lack of rucking ability aside) he could use his size and athleticism and endurance to our advantage, but he can't. There's a reason why West Coast gave up on him so early in his career, and it wasn't injuries. If they felt he could develop into another Cox (i.e.- a midfielder who rucks), or a decent tall forward (which they lack), they would have stuck by him. His deficiencies are just too big to fix IMO, particularly when in reality he really doesn't have any suitable position on the ground, which is something you need to find if you can't claim first ruck.

It's because he's playing as a defender, which on the one hand I understand (as it teaches him accountability), but on the other hand I hate. Robbing us of one of our best playmakers right about now seems odd. Can't drop a kid who has been asked to play a different role by the coach to learn.

It shows that you haven't been to a game in a long while. PJ is a terrible ruckman, and a liability around the ground. The only thing he has going for him at the moment is fitness. If Meesen was fit, I reckon he would have been sent to Casey as soon as Jamar became available. In the past few weeks he has cost us at least 4 goals from direct turnovers. He actually missed a handball target yesterday right in front of goal, which pretty much summed up his ability. He can't play KP, and he can't play as a link-up player. What's left then? And nobody questions Bruce or Whelan's commitment or effort (although Bruce missed a couple of contests yesterday), the question is in regards to their skills, and if their skills and decision making is detrimental to the team, they should be made accountable.

He had his best game against the Saints, and IMO it was because he was given the freedom to lead up and play on the wing, where he could get involved. He did a couple of really great things, which showed he has brilliant recovery skills, ball handing skills and agility. And we know his kicking is spot on (nerves are killing it at the moment, particularly in front of goal, where at under 18 level he was nailing them from everywhere, every week). Playing in the Melbourne forwardline at the moment is tough, playing in that forwardline when you're small, with no experience, and relying on spillages (although he can take a good overhead mark, despite his size, but is rarely kicked to as a marking target), is virtually impossible. He played one out in the square for big chunks of the game. Often he and his opponent stood on the 50m line and spectated as 30 players pushed forward on the play. In that situation I would rather Robbo one out and Maric pushing up, where he can use his speed, and his smarts to help deliver the ball, rather than being the target to deliver to. Regardless, he has played just a handfull of games in what is traditionally a very difficult position, and has shown enough to suggest that he can be a good player for us. Dropping him, as you suggested in another thread, is going to do nothing for him at the moment. What he needs now more than anything is experience and game time at senior level. The same thing applies to Watts, who I think (subject to fitness) should play out the year in the seniors. We knows he is too good for VFL level, and there is nothing in particular that he needs to work on right now other than his experience and strength, neither of which he can do at a lower level. The more game time we pump into these kids now, the quicker we'll get off the bottom.

He's set for retirement, is a fantastic leader on and especially off the field, and we're currently sitting on one win. Let him play out the year and leave the game with the dignity and respect that he so richly deserves. Dropping him is not going to help us achieve success, and it certainly won't sit well with the players.

People are being harsh on Maric. He spent the majority of the game in an empty forwardline. The ball never got down there, and when it did, it was delivered much too high for someone his size, and the Pie always had too many numbers down back to allow him the crumb. Yes he missed a couple he should have nailed, but I love that he is so smart with his ball use, and really the way we were outplayed today it is very hard to judge someone who is essentially playing in the most difficult position on the ground (in terms of being able to rack up the possessions and get involved). I would have liked to see him play a bit more through the middle where he can get involved, get his hands on the ball and use his football brain and good skills (like he did against the Saints in the first half).

He already is the only ruck. Martin can take the ruck duties in the back/forward line (depending which end he plays), and if Jamar really needs a rest Martin can take a couple of the center bounces (although I hate that idea knowing that Martin is not a trained ruckman and is risking injury). At the end of the day, we can win or lose as many ruck contests, but it means nothing if our mids can't get their hands on the ball, and our second ruck is consistently turning the ball over.

Just thought I'd break up all the negativity and hair pulling and wrist slitting with a picture I took outside the G today. For those who don't know, our players have a punishment system for players who are late to training (maybe for other misdemeanors as well?). The player in question roles a dice and each number equates to a different punishment (shave your head is one, walking around with a talking Barbie doll for a week is another etc..). One of the best punishments however, happens to be having to drive a shitbox of a car for a whole week. And this is it... Apparently Miller did the artwork.

Or you can look at it and say that in the next 1-3 years we will lose all of these senior players, and yet none will be a loss to us. Most teams struggle when they lose their most senior players, but not us. We can start planning for a future without our 5 oldest players and not have to worry about how we'll manage without them, because in reality none occupy key positions, none play key roles, and none are influential enough to win us games (with apologies to Greeny, who still has a while left in him anyway).

Now now, we all knew this was coming. No need to get angry. Anyone who needs to see the game stats of other first timers to prove to themselves that Watts' debut was perfectly acceptable, is hardly worth arguing with. Today was about Watts getting a taste, and he sure got one. Despite being under enormous pressure, his disposal and decision making was composed (a couple of very smart handballs), but spending large amounts of time in a dead forwardline obviously didn't help his stat count. Also agreed that he was exhausted in the second half, and it's no wonder. No pre-season, heavy conditions and never having played at this level. To expect anything more than what we got today is unrealistic. Would have been great if that ball bounced through for a goal instead of a point, but that's life. It's not what you do in your first game that counts, it's what you can take from your last game that matters.

Agreed. And since returning, Jamar has shown clear signs of improvement. He is winning the taps (needs to work on winning them to advantage now) comfortably, taking contested marks, blocking and helping the guys in the clearances. He is doing everything right for a big guy, everything I would hope to get out of a ruckman acually. What we need now is to find him a backup because Paul Johnson is a costly player. Not only do we lose the ruck contest when he's rucking, but he turns the ball over time and time again, he can't handball, makes shocking decisions, and costs us goals (2 at least today, maybe more).

Oh my god, now I have truly heard it all!

Out: PJ, Whelan In: Martin, Miller

Absolutely. Every senior player out there was well below capacity and that is ultimately what really hurt us. To blame players with 1,5,10,20,30 game experience for what happened today is unfair. No doubt they are part of the team and they contribute to the loss, but they need to have the support of the senior players around them.

Who would you have appointed?

It's as if everytime we have a terrible game, people come on here and just let their brains explode all over the place. I suggest everyone goes and has a lie down and a stiff drink before starting new threads... particularly ones that suggest Bailey is no good, Jamar should be offloaded, Watts is crap and McLean is a pea heart.

:rolleyes: Dean Bailey sucks, we shouldn't have drafted Watts, we are never going to get off the bottom of the ladder, and we should merge with North Melbourne. Anymore?

Criticize his game all you like, but if anyone feels the need to call him lazy and a pea heart, they do not deserve a response, because that statement is both offensive and so so so wrong.

I actually think we made a few mistakes at the selection table this week (not that those mistakes cost us the game, but nevertheless). I know Miller was out of form, but we missed him today and again had no solid target to kick to. Martin should have played instead of PJ (Jamar is the only one who can ruck anyways, and at least Martin can defend and won't turn the ball over consistently), and perhaps Bennell should have played ahead of Whelan. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Terrific game from him, and the sort of display we have all be waiting for. The key is for him to just keep going and find that consistency. I sincerely hope that he has finally turned the corner, because we sure can use his talent!

There was nothing embarrassing about Watts or his debut. To begin with there was little chance that he'd have a stunning debut, add to that a completely pathetic display from the other 21 guys around him, and heavy rain, and what exactly did people expect? When he did get the ball, he showed just how smart he is, and used it well. He made it through a game, went from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows, and he is a lot better for the experience. The only embarrassing thing about this week was the display we put on today. The Jack Watts hype was largely media driven, and his game was what I would expect from a kid coming into a team that is getting thrashed.

Hard to judge who plays on who half the time. I only saw him on Didak once or twice, but you might be right. Still, I think that as a future midfielder, he is doing a terrific job playing on dangerous small forwards. He wasn't disgraced and fought admirably. His decision making and disposal is top notch, and his courage is exemplary. Definitely would put him in the top half a dozen best players for us today (there weren't many!).