Jaded No More

I hope like hell Martin doesn't go into the centre circle this year. While rucking around the ground is fine, you just know that with our luck, he'd jump too early, get kicked in the head and do a knee on his way down!

He is a beanpole with no experience. I think he has a huge amount of potential, but he needs a lot of time at VFL level before he is anywhere near ready for a serious rucking role. Very few can step into that role first year in. It is the most specialised position on the ground, which requires a lot of perfecting. You let someone ruck who hasn't had the previous experience (and I'm pretty sure Spencer is not from an AFL background) and you risk serious injury... not to mention a lot of frees being paid against you. If Meesen is indeed injured, then PJ goes into Number One Ruck mode until Jamar is fit, and Spencer becomes the backup. Bring on Scully and Butcher!

I would say that if it is, he was gone even before the injury. He is still very young for a ruckman, so if the club believes he is worth persisting with, they will keep him on. Stress fractures, while they take a while to heal, are not untreatable. Given that he is contracted until the end of 2010, I can't see the club paying out his contract and delisting him. For one, we can't afford to do that, and secondly the competition for his position is about as weak as it gets. Spencer is nowhere near ready, PJ is not a ruckman, and Jamar is... well... Jamar. We can delist him, and try to pluck another ruckman in the draft, but very few, if any, are ready to ruck at AFL level within a year of being drafted, so having Meesen there for another year as back-up at least, seems reasonable. The worst thing that could happen IMO, is if we run out of ruckmen, and end up having to play someone like Martin in that position, and he gets injured because he is inexperienced and doesn't know when/how to jump correctly. I'd be interested to know the contract status of PJ and Jamar. If either are out of contract, they may be gone before Meesen. Lets hope Spencer comes good, because our ruck stocks are horrendous.

Well this thread has turned out very well for me... I'm on drugs, I'm insane, I'm loved, I'm hated Note to self: stay away from team changes topics

Don't worry, he's bored because Yze_Magic isn't here to argue with him. I've already said that I will not be responding to him and feeding his need for an argument. We all have our opinions on players, good or bad, and we are all allowed to express them, as long as we do it in a respectful manner. I have never ever abused Bruce, called him weak, pathetic etc... etc... I have always fully acknowledged how hard he works on the field, but I am not blind to his downfalls, and neither are most posters here. As a senior player, and a leader, he is likely to attract more criticism than most... that's part of the pitfalls of being an AFL player.

I'm not saying we are the only club that suffers from injuries. I'm simply pointing out that we have an issue with players sustaining injuries that are not necessarily related to impact. Meesen, if indeed injured, is the 4th player this year to sustain "stress fractures", which are injuries related to the body breaking down, as opposed to getting broken, if that makes sense. We'll never know why this is happening, but it's a worry. We've had three years where half our list had OP, another stress-related injury, and now 'stress fractures' are all the rage. Maybe it's just rotten luck, as I've said, but maybe it's not?

Well someone had to say it But seriously, our injuries never stop. Is it crappy luck, is it having a young list that is being overworked, or is it simply having a whole bunch of injury-prone footballers? It's a massive worry. If we were playing for a final birth, these injuries would have a huge impact on our chances.

And that's the silver linning. [censored] news for Meesen if true, as he was finally starting to show something. On a separate note, are we just unlucky, or is our list injury prone?

Butcher looks awesome, so does Scully. I'd hate for us to have to pick one or the other. Both would help us greatly!

If she has your credit card details and that's all she's using your card for, you should be very very thankful. She can obviously control her shopping needs. Some of us aren't that lucky.

I think so too Just to clear things up, when I talk about someone being smart, talented and awesome, I am not talking about Newton

I won't judge McLean until he is fit. If he can't get fit, that's another issue. Until then, glasses or not, I will be sticking by him.

It's only bad when you have other options and choose to take a high-risk option for no reason. Jack, had no other option than to kick to the top of the square. It landed between the goal posts behind the white line, which was a bonus, but the idea itself was right. Same goes for Morton and Jones, who needed to take the punt because there were no realistic contests to kick it too. Kicking long goals is the best way to break a defensive zone. Jones nearly nailed that one too. Of course if you've got players constantly going for these goals and kicking them out of the full, that's just stupid. Everyone should know their limitations, and if they can't nail 60m goals consistently, they should look to dish it off to someone who can. I doubt Meesen will ever attempt those low-percentage kicks, but Sylvia for example can and should. As it stands, Jack's goal was a bit of a miracle, and he probably won't pull that off too regularly, however his ability to rove a pack is extraordinary for someone his size, and his lateral movement is what really stands out when you watch that goal.

He did know he was about to get run down. If we're talking about the same contest, it happened right in front of where I sit, and he was in two minds, because he had absolutely nobody to kick it to. His two options were to try and beat his opponent, or cause a certain turnover. In the end, he got rid of the ball as he was getting tackled, and the ball rolled, creating a 50/50 situation. That we lost the contest is another story. Look, he is definitely struggling for fitness at the moment, and his pace is affected by that, but he has never had awareness issues, so it seems unlikely that all of a sudden he's developed them. Pace is his issue, but in the past it never stopped him from impacting a contest, because his endurance won out. At the moment, he doesn't have that endurance to rely on, so instead of getting faster as the game goes on (as everyone else tires), he gets slower. He was furious when he came off the ground in the later stages of the game, so clearly there is something wrong. He is trying to play through it, and getting a bit better each week, but maybe he shouldn't. Maybe he needs to fix whatever it is that's wrong... given it is fixable.

How am I backpedaling? I have not changed my opinion on Brock for 5 years. You change your mind every 5 minutes. You really are very brave with your judgments aren't you, questioning someone who has been constantly injured since 2006. To say that injuries are not a factor is just stupid. That's like saying that Rivers hasn't been affected by injuries. I remember when Brock came back from his terrible ankle injury and dominated. He also placed very highly in the B&F having played just half a season. We know that when fit he is the best midfielder in the team, which is not to say he is the best midfielder in the competition, or that he does not need help. In fact, he would be a hell of a lot better when surrounded by a gun midfield, and if you think Judd didn't benefit from Kerr or Cousins, or that Ablett would perform as well in Melbourne's midfield, you're kidding yourself. As I said, I don't jump on and off bandwagons when it suits my argument. Try it sometimes, you might risk not always being right, but at least you'll gain some respect by putting your balls on the line. Brock McLean, when fit, is in the top 5 best and most important Melbourne players. Even when he isn't fit, like this year, he is still in the top 5 best performed players, which says a hell of a lot about him as a player. Now where's the excuse in that?

Is this "pick on Jaded" week or something? Do you have a quote of me saying "Brock McLean is the next Judd?" A couple of years ago, Brock was statistically up there with Judd in terms of possessions collected against time on ground. A couple of year ago, pre injuries, everyone here, including the esteemed Rhino, was on Brock's bandwagon. Brock still is one of the few players in the current team that I've seen stand up in a final and rip it apart. Injuries have absolutely ruined any fluency or continuity that he may have otherwise had, which is an absolute shame. But for the love of god, stop posting about Brock as if you never believed he could become an elite player. You were onto him just like we all were, the difference is, that you jump on and off bandwagons faster than Freo trade away first round draft picks. I stand by my opinion of Brock, and I still believe he can become an A grade footballer if his body lets him, because I don't have a short term memory and I know what he's capable of producing when fit (and pace, which is his only shortcoming, is not the be all and end all in football). When was the last time you actually stuck by your convictions, instead of just following the trends?! By the way, if you actually believe that Brock's form at the moment has to do with the fact that he bought into all the hype, then I really can't believe I just wasted 2 minutes replying to you. Go back and remind yourself when was the last time he has had an injury-free season, or pre-season for that matter. And we're not talking 2-3 week injuries, we're talking major season-ending injuries.

I don't think we'll elevate anyone at the moment. We could have already done that given that Garland is on the LTI, so clearly nobody is ready/required. McKenzie would however be my pick of the rookies, and he may well be promoted and given his opportunity to play AFL later on in the year.

You are kidding yourself if you don't think that Bruce shopped himself around 3 years ago. And Green did exactly the same thing, as did Robbo. I have no problem with that, because they are all entitled to look out for themselves and their future, and it takes nothing away for their loyalty to the club. For what it's worth, Travis was probably the most loyal to the MFC over the years off the field, but this did not reflect in his on-field efforts. But football is a business, and just as players are allowed to sniff around for the best deal, it is the club's right, if not duty, to look at trading players who they feel are worth more to other clubs. 3 years ago, Bruce would have got us a top 20 pick. That's potentially 12 years of great service versus 4 good to average seasons from someone who is not going to be around when we're ready to challenge. Now obviously 3 years ago, the club was not rebuilding, and did not have the vision to execute this move, however they should have been more realistic about where we stood as a list. As it was, we traded for the likes of Pickett because we believed we had a good enough list to challenge. We obviously had no idea what the hell we were on about. That is not Bruce's fault. At the end of the day, he is in decline and at 30 that is acceptable. I don't really get why every other player can cop criticism, but we are not allowed to ever say a negative word about Bruce. The facts are, that his decision making is poor, and that while statistically his disposal is up to standard, when you watch him play you realise how many of his handballs and kicks put teammates under pressure and lead to turnovers. At 30, he is never going to improve on this, and he seems to be one of a few players who is struggling to adapt to Bailey's game plan, which would explain why he is spending a lot more time in defence than usual. He is a year by year proposition, and the fact that this year's draft is not as deep as last year's, means he is more than likely going to stay on for at least another year. But he won't be a regular senior player in 2010 IMO.

Hasn't lost any of his magic. Still needs to work on his defensive pressure, but isn't it great to have a forward who will mark anything that goes near him and kick them too. Welcome back Robbo, we've missed you!

That's because, at 30, he is never going to improve. He's only likely to decline further. Besides, there are numerous threads on here which focus on Bate, Sylvia, PJ, Newton, not to mention the amount of posts made regarding the disposal of Bartram, Miller, McLean etc... He is not the only player who cops criticism, but at 30, and being our vice-captain, we would be silly to ignore his rapid decline. By the way, every single B&F player has declined at some stage. That is the natural progression of football players, regardless of how many awards they have won. If it wasn't, they'd play until they were dead.

While the junk-food eating isn't a massive worry, I'm sure that if you looked hard enough you'll find numerous photographic evidence of some of our players drinking excessively, and yes, even smoking. That is a much bigger worry, and still, it happens all the time at all football clubs.

But didn't you like how, when we played one-on-one in the first quarter we actually broke even with them?! We choked up their options when clearing the ball out of the backline and forced them to kick to one-on-one contests. By the way, don't kid yourself, Ablett was down on form yesterday because he was carrying a groin injury, not because we successfully shut him down. Oh and go refer to my post from last week and quote me saying that we should leave Ablett on his own in the centre square and let him do what he wants ... that was the stupidest line-up at a first bounce that you are ever likely to see! P.S.- Ablett may have 'struggled' (I wish all our players struggled like he does), but that still left Bartel and Chapman to do as they please. You cannot shut down their midfield, but as Bailey said before the game, the key is not to stop them getting the ball, it's to stop them from having options to kick to... which we did really well in the first quarter in particular.

Given that we weren't brave enough to trade him at his peak, he is now worth virtually nothing on the open market. I'm not sure whether or not his contract is out at the end of this year, but if it is, he should certainly be a year by year proposition. While he is versatile, and he can run all day, he just does not do enough damage on the ground. His disposal and particularly his decision making is now too poor to ignore. Might get one more year out of him, but personally it would be a shame if we kept playing him out of obligation, while he wasn't preforming, and we end up missing a young kid who might take his place instead and be around when we're ready to challenge. Bailey doesn't strike me as the type to let players cruise along on reputation or history. Hopefully that means that Bruce will be made accountable for his poor skills sooner rather than later. By the way, this is in no way a reflection on Bruce as a hard-working player. I think he gives his all most weeks, he runs all day and can generally play anywhere on the ground. He has been a good player for us over the years, especially given he was such a late draft pick. However, his time is nearing the end very very quickly, not because his body is not willing, but because his skills are declining fast. This is actually the opposite of what is happening with Junior, who I think is struggling with his body (he seems to have lost a lot of pace, which he didn't have a huge amount of to begin with) while his skills remain on par.

The video doesn't do it justice, because it doesn't show the contest in its entirety. Watts actually won the ball out of the ruck before picking it up off the deck. And while it may have been a bit of a fluke goal, the beauty of it is that he has the agility to switch sides quickly, that he is able to kick off both sides without hesitation, and that he has a good sense of where to go in the contest. He's a bit special!

Spot on. Davey's smother was brave, and inspirational. Bruce giving away silly free kicks was not. Neither was his disposal or decision making, which has let him down time and time again. While I appreciate how hard Bruce works in general play, and the fact that he hasn't lost any of his aerobic capacity, he needs to be made responsible for his awful disposal. Also, yesterday he went half-hearted into a number of tackles that he should have nailed. Yes he may be our Vice Captain, but at the moment he is struggling to influence the contest and he needs to be made accountable for that. I know they won't drop him, like they won't drop Junior, but they should. Nobody should be given a free ride.