nutbean

When the club embraced Yuendumu when Liam first came to our club the outpouring of support from us was wonderful. The spirit of generosity was obvious to all. I did not read one negative opinion. So my question is - did we embrace just the fluffy story of the aboriginal boy from outback Australia making good ? Now the going is tough we need to ask ourselves - did we embrace just the good bits of Liam story or do we support Yuendumu community, its problems and its most famous son warts and all. I have no idea what has gone down and will wait for facts. What I do know is that the lifestyle I lead sitting comfortably in Caulfield is light years away from what is happening in the Northern Territory. What I do know is that what is going on in the Northern Territory is tragic and transcends sport and my beloved MFC.

So what you are saying is you would make a judgement without knowing the facts.

Or conversely, they could stand up and rise to the occasion of finals football. Brent Crosswell only awoke from his slumber for a finals game.Or Clark Keating whose idea of preseason was the last three games of every home and away season before going on and tearing apart the finals. (And Steven Milne being the opposite - a small game bullyand big game dud) I think we can only comment on what we do know - not on what we dont.

Some of those names Michael Byrne - ugghhh. Ordinary for us and more than useful after he left for Hawthorn. Giles and Baker - may the fleas of a thousand camels infest those beards. Cameron Clayton - went from Richmond to us and then became an inforcer at Essendon. Andy Moir - kid prodigy at 16 who could really take a grab. And he could also bauk, shimmy, blind turn and side step - especially when there was no one within 50 metres of him (including the football)

count me in - especially Matthews. Played hard. Played fair. Played unfair. Either way he never uttered a word when he got pay back.

Interestingly, he was drafted as a tackling machine.

My point exactly

And if only Bartram could dispose of a ball and make decisions like Watts can.

I will rephrase - top 5. I think it is a big ask for Viney to be top 5 in his second year. I maintain that if he is top 5 in his second year then we are doing something wrong. Trengove finished 5th in the Bluey last year. This is not a go at Trengove but a real go at players who should have been well in front of him( Davey ? Green? ). Have a look at Geelong - not a youngster in their first 10 in their B&F Have a look at Collingwood the year before. If Viney is in our top 5 in the Bluey in 2014 I will suggest we may be in some strife because players whoshould form part of the premiership nucleus obviously havent come on.

Sounds very much like the same thing Northey did when he marched through the front door.

Yup - all our players want at the end of their careers to be "one club players" and we envisage that this will be the case.

Really ? I like Nathan Jones and I liked his game on Saturday but really ?

if Viney is elite by year two he will have managed to do something that the three best midfielders (Swan, Judd and Ablett) were unable to do. - that is be elite by year 2. Judd was good from day one but hit elite in year 3.I saw the Selwood post further up - he was good year one and I think he bordered on elite by end year 2 - still behind Ablett and Bartel in the midfield. Big ask of young Viney - think Trengove - is he elite yet ?

I will make myself cringe with this tired old cliche but is there more than a hint of "tall poppy syndrome" in the Watts reporting ? Golden hair, private school boy from Brighton makes bad ?

If you want to defeat everyones argument then simply draw up two columns and write every teams regular CHF('s) for the last 10 odd years. Then write down at what age these players started to make a real impact. Draw the line at age 22.You will find that the list of players that impacted sub 22 is way shorter. Franklin - freak. Cloke, Dawes, Kennedy, Hawkins - normal development. Alas - our Jack may turn out special but is he a freak like Franklin and Carey who basically tore it up from day one ? nope. What has got me completely astounded in this whole debate is the common axiom that key position players take time to mature obviously doesnt apply to number one draft picks

If Matthews said "Watts isnt a child prodigy" - then I have no problem with that - Franklin and Judd were freakish from day one. Even NikNat has shown tricks since his first game. Watts hasn't. If Matthews said "Watts isnt worthy of no1 draft pick" - I disagree - the jury is still out for mine

I'm an unabashed McKenzie fan but I dont see him as ever being elite. I was a huge fan of Cameron Ling but he was not elite. Jones I find the most troublesome to place. Could be anything, might be nothing.

I have no problem with balanced criticism of Watts but what Malthouse said in my opinion was not balanced. Suggesting that he lacks ambition -pffft. Hey Mick - you certainly spent a fair bit of time defending Travis Cloke in his early days when he couldnt get within a kilometre of the ball. I think we all have a fairly good handle on the progress made last year by Watts I think most of us have fairly sensible expectations of what we wants this year - take last years good form and use that as the benchmark - kick more goals, impose himself on more contests. But I also think most of us ( I hope ) understand that he is a 20 year old kid still feeling his way and as long as we see constant improvement then thats fine.

I think both depth and Elite top 5 are important. Northey (i know -different era) - got the best out of a workman-like outfit - we had depth within the team in that the difference between the first and last picked was marginal. We suffered from a lack of a couple of superstar hence never taking us to the ultimate. You could level the same argument about Daniher. I then look at StKilda and how they boasted Lockett, Loewe(?), Harvey and Burke in their line up and knew that they would never win a premiership because their last 5 picked would have struggled to get a game in any other team. The Saints talent fell away dramatically after the first 10 picked. However - it is easier to lift your bottom 5 players to be really good contributors than to lift your top 5 players into an "elite" category (in my opinion depth will only get you so far - you need the superstars to take you to the top)

The idea of those comparisons was to compare Jack Watts with where those players were at the same time in their career - not where they are now. Travis Cloke especially and to a lesser extent Reiwoldt were not recognised for their work ethic and getting to every contest as 20 year olds.

I prefer the phrase "competition for places" rather than "embarrassment of riches"

If you want to mirror Watts progress I think of Josh Kennedy , now at the eagles, as a good model - drafted number 4 as a key forward. He was one year older than Watts when drafted ( and Watts first year was a nonsense as others have pointed out) . First three years netted a total of 18 goals. It took Kennedy until year 4 until he started to make a real impact - in fact his second year he played 13 games for 6 goals and in year 4 - 16 games for 31 goals.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think we have drafted poorly - I think we have developed our draftees poorly.

I am absolutely disappointed with the outcome. Please point me to where you expressed your disappointment (or anyones disappointment) at the time we drafted him and i will shut up on this topic.

I will never forget the after goal celebration in his first game