deeko

Ha! Benny you do give me a laugh. On your response to my other post stating its far too simple, I'm happy with that as I don't want to over complicate things. I have faith those players will be solid enough but I'm not getting my hopes up (again) and would rather go about this season as planning for the worst while hoping for the best.

I'd like him on the wing.... Of the all Australian team

Harsh there on a couple. Tapscott who hurt his hip on a spinkler head originally after being drafted, Blease who broke his leg at school.... after being drafted and Strauss who broke his leg in a collision. Garland has gotten over his original problems and has played over 80 games in the last 4 years. Grimes has had concussion from collisions and a shoulder problem for a dodgey tackle this year. Lots of kids come into the system and struggle early, as its a large difference to training and playing with 18 year olds to training and playing against men. Maybe we should advise they drink more milk for there bones

Exactly this. I imagine most of us here have been active at some time and cop a little niggle somewhere, adjust our action/style/positioning to minimise the pain and end up hurting something else. I think this was the case with Christopher last year but also I recall reading somewhere that he twice tried to come back early as he was feeling awful on the sidelines watching all the time. Don't think this would have helped. If Clark is back, young Hoges and Fitzy around then at least they can all take there time getting right lowering the risk of re-injury

Last year I rated our midfield as the worst I have ever seen. Next season I rate it only slightly better remembering the following: Cross is an older work horse. I love this type of player but we all need to remember he is three years past his prime Vince is a show pony who like Sylvia picks and chooses the games he plays. Yes he has a great highlights package and can hit a target on the [censored] but he is up and down like a yo yo. Michie has played what, half a game? Amazingly is already in most peoples best 22 Tyson has played what, half a season? Has been injured and is used to being smacked by 100 points each game anyway. Toump and Viney are still boys and people continually expect way too much from them. Pick 9 will be a boy I adore and love Nate Jones and yes he would get a game for every other team in the league but would be most teams third, or occasionally second best midfielder. Our midfield will take three years to fix. Prove me wrong Roosy, please prove me wrong!!

Everyone here got sucked in by Pedo as he had some really good VFL performances for the Roos twos where he actually played like a man. It made sense that he wasn't getting a game being about 4th of 5th in line in there talls. Then, watching his 2 minutes of highlights he looked pretty damaging in his couple games.... what wasn't to like?? And then we saw the real man, squibbing contests, ducking his head, lifting his elbow when he was a meter passed a player. Maybe we could off load him again for pick 88 noting he played some great games for Casey this year and would have another solid 1 minute of highlights to add to his 2 mins from the Roos. I remember one contested grab against the power and the running, couple bounces goal against GWS that all looked pretty flashy.

They need a scattergun approach as they need big bodies all over the ground, everywhere! Our approach has been as good as we could have wanted without being greedy

Let's not go crazy

I like the other points in your post 'Dee-luded' but don't agree with your commentary around Howe. I think Howey suffered a lot from the "can't be stuffed's" last season as did many and he clearly went backwards from the year before. His defensive efforts in his first year were quite good and I remember a couple games watching him continually run and harass. It seemed that the "can't be stuffed's" were super contagious and he copped a dose. To say that he needs to learn more responsibility and stop flying for everything however is a little silly. It's his strongest asset and why we picked him up. Not for the hangers but because he is an exceptional contested mark. I think every coach in the league would be encouraging him to just go for everything, including kick outs. There is no reason he can't do this when playing on the HFF anyway.

Agree with all of this except where we place. The dogs still have some fire power in the old brigade in Cross & Boyd. Griffen is an out and out star and there younger brigade is first class and a season or two ahead of ours. Crameri is a big difference for them as well now. I keep thinking positively hoping to end up in the 8-12 area but no way will we finish up above the doggies or others. Actually when on paper I worry we may only finish above the Saints and Giants. It will be another long season in the loss department but we will definitely be more competitive and give some teams a scare. 16th for us. Ah what it would like to be mediocre again.

Darn censorship, leaves my completely mystified to what you do to yourself... sounds saucy but

Spot on OD. I still don't think our list is completely awful. Having a look at most peoples preferred starting line ups there aren't to many VFL standard players on the list, they just played like a bunch of headless chooks because they had no idea what they were meant to be doing. Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Grimes, Viney, Nate Jones, Clark, Dawes, Trengove would play senior footy at any other team in the AFL, I don't doubt this at all. Toumpas, Watts, Gawn, Fitz, Cross, & Howe would play senior footy at most other teams and all of these guys will show further improvement this year other than Cross who will still be handy. Michie, Hogan, Pick 9, Tyson are hard to judge at the moment, but I'm hoping for the best. That makes nearly 20 which is nearly a team! 12th on the ladder HERE WE COME!!!!!! disclaimer - I have probably missed a player or people mightn't agree with all but it's just a quick exercise and didn't have a huge amount of thought process. However I think the rest are VFL standard

That is it in a nutshell. Watch the boys actually start backing themselves again and take the game on instead of continually being second at the pill I refuse to believe there is no talent on this list. They are playing the highest level for goodness sake so clearly they have the ability to hit a team mate on the chest when need be. It just goes back to the belief in themselves which has been sucked dry over the last two years. I don't believe in any miracles going into the next season but I do believe we will definitely stem the bleeding and see no more thumping's and a lot more competitive games from our boys.

I can't have Dunn, still unsure of what he provides and in all honesty, no debating here will change that. Still I will always want the best for him when he lines up for us. He is definitely under the pump though with Grimes most likely returning to the HBF. I have always had a soft spot for Tappy yet looking at his stats last year it's pretty much a given that this season may be his last to get his mojo back and I would not be surprised if he was used as trade bait. Clearly under the pump. Tappy is a clear case of sh!thouse coaching over the last few years as like so many of our list has gone completely backwards. His first half a dozen games he was getting a fair bit of the ball, laying his big tackles and I remember him jumping back in the whole once or twice getting crunched (yet to see Dunn do this). This is where the love for Tappy originated, thinking we had a genuine old school nugget with a thumping boot. I think most were a little smitten. Two years of "development" later he is half the player he was.

Exactly this. I like the Toump and Howey and think they will both become serious players but if the opportunity was to present itself for one of the top 10 midfielders in the game then I would take it everytime. I only use those two as examples as they are the few we have with currency. As for Chip, would be the same. Yes he is a star and yes I adore him but what would people prefer, the best midfield in the league or the best backline? I wrote this a couple pages ago, JPK was number 1 in clearances, number 1 in handballs and number 4 in possessions. Also kicks goals and has a ridiculously smoking missus. I think the chances are less than 1% but it's a great debating topic on what people would give up. Me, I'd give up all but Viney (as he would refuse to leave anyway) and Hogan. All else are just surplus assets in relation to getting this man.

Kennedy for anyone bar Hogan & Viney. I'd throw in Pick 9. Number 1 in the league for contested possessions, clearances, handballs and 4th in possessions. Absolute star and people are worried about trading out players who have shown 'potential.' This guy is the definition of the hard at inside midfielder and would be the one 'elite' (such a dirty word) player on our list. Not saying others won't get to that standard but JPK is an out and out star.

Barry is a wingman. Has nice skills, is a smooth mover but definitely not super quick and doesn't seem super dangerous from the couple times I saw him.

Maybe we don't need one with the big fella's simply clunking everything. Here's hoping. I'd love to get Garlett, think he could be something special. Will be interesting to see who picks him up and where. Stealing a line from someone else here around crumbers: "Crumbers are like the cream on the cake however we still don't have any cake" I still think we should focus on more and more mids to get competitive there and look to pick off a small forward at a later date when the ball gets down there and they can actually get involved. Who knows, maybe LJ or Wonna may make a return to the redlegs

Exactly!! We average nearly 80 touches of the pill last year per game less than the opposition. It excites me that we have recruited some players who actually have the ability to win there own ball in Cross, Michie, Vince & Tyson. Last years was recruiting was a disgrace! I had nothing against the recruiting of Byrnes (other than the effect it had on our compo) as he filled a supposed need we all thought was required. I remember during the intraclub match after he slotted through his 4th of 5th how excited we all were.... how we wrong.

Griff & Cooney don't mind getting there hands dirty also. They have an aging list with there A/B graders so he was always going to be in trouble. He will be great for us as he is a genuine hard nut who can win his own pill. We really lack there and I'm excited to see him line up next year. However..... even with these inclusions our midfield is still rated a C and probably remains the worst or one of the worst in the comp. Which is still an improvement from last year when it was well and truly the worst in the comp and by some distance. The things we have going for us this season will be instead of losing at stoppages 9 times from 10 we might only lose 6 or 7 from 10. What excites me is that if we stay fit, our forward line could be that effective that winning 3 or 4 stoppages from 10 might be enough to be really competitive.

Because they have enough midfielders not to worry about an elder player. He would still probably be there 6th or 7th best mid but why bother keeping him when they can go young and potentially get someone better coming into there prime when the dogs believe they will be a contender again. Although yes he is old, and a bit of the dads army type, he would come to us as probably our third or fourth best mid behind Jones and Viney and maybe Vince.

I think it was RPFC who showed his team line up in this structure a while ago and I think its easier instead of placing them on the historical field view to stop arguing over who is a back flank, whos a forward flank and who is on the wing. Backs: Frawley, Garland, McDonald on the talls with Terlich the lock down small defender. Forwards: Hogan, Dawes, Clark, Howe Mids: Grimes ©, Jones, Viney, Toump, Vince, Watts, Tyson, Kent. Rucks: Jamar (watch him wind back the clock now Neeld has gone). Happy for Gawn to take over when he can run out a full game. Clark can swap with the Russian for the occasional chop out. Grimes to be on the defensive side for the mids with Kent on the attacking. This team lists 17 of the only definite's I would play at this stage. I don't know enough about Michie to include him other than the 5 mins of highlights on youtube. Cross is a definite if we get him as well as Pick 9. The remaining 3 players can earn it and I don't care who it is, as long as they are playing good enough footy to deserve it. Big year for Tappy, Strauss, Taggert and Blease. If they don't show anything this year it's adios. Jordie, Byrnes, Evans, M Jones, Fitz and the Snake are really there for depth players. Shouldn't be getting a game in a full strength team. Not sold at all on Barry yet (mainly due to being burnt so many times over the last few years by players I over rate) but as long as he keeps improving at Casey I will be happy. All over for Nicho, Dunn, Bail & Jetta. If we spliced there DNA and removed the ordinary parts we could have a star but instead we have 4 NQR's who would not be on any other list but ours.

Stop it

and "elite" awful word Welcome Viv, all the best

That's a different thought process and I enjoyed the read here DeeVoted as it makes you wonder what a team could do with skill and confidence. Even though it's possible it's still very rare for a team to have a '1987' year I think in comparison to a good experienced team who should be continually around the top half. Clearly our issue, and that of GWS is controlling the ball which I think also comes with experience noting how much the game has changed over this time with presses and zoning off. As our players develop getting fitter and stronger I think we will see less turn overs. I still think our biggest issue has been continually letting experienced players go. I have a 2005 Melbourne team picture on my wall which other than Dunn and Jamar I don't think anyone else still plays and I'd argue these two didn't deserve a run last year. Our drafting throughout the 00's was, yes, dust but if we kept all our half decent players with a decent coach we would have still been a decent team. Imagine how different things could have been if our midfield could have had players like McLean, Moloney, Thompson, Jones running through the centre and now chucking in Viney. Sylvia could go back to being a true HFF then. Yes there is some ordinary personalities there but a good coach will still get the best out of his team all the time whether they like each other or not. It wouldn't be a world beating team but I'd rather watch them crash and bash running painfully slow dishing it out to some finishers then watch the crap we have had to put up with over the last 7 years.