Pates

I think both are required when it comes to some indigenous players, you mentioned he was made to train with Keiran Jack, but no doubt having Adam Goodes there as an indigenous leader there would've been great as a role model. Time and time again I hear there is a brotherhood bond between indigenous players, Matty Whelan helped Flash and now Flash is there to help young aboriginal players coming to Melbourne. You mentioned Wonna and Jurrah, Wonna had a traumatic period where he lost a father and a father figure. I can't imagine how much of an impact on a person, let alone someone who lives in such a small tight knit community. Jurrah's issues are well known, and I don't think it mattered how good a leader he was, Liam's fate was his own by the circumstances. No one could possibly predict what was going to unfold. So should we get Garlett, and Flash still be around, then I think will play a role in keeping him in line as all the leaders will.

He is definitely getting some of his conditioning back, he was never quick but he was still able to go alright over the first couple of steps and that is what has been lacking in the last 12 months (due to injuries). Considering the two goals he kicked where one shot last year from 35m out didn't make the distance, you can certainly say he's getting there. Great to see the attacking Trenners out there.

I'm not surprised at the criticsm of Cam, most (if not all) games he's played he's been poor. But I am certainly in the camp that thought he was quite good on the weekend. It's a difficult ask playing in the defence for Melbourne at the moment but I thought he came off his player and made some important contests quite a few times and took some telling interception marks. I can't actually recall the contest he apparently squibbed but I will assume it was bad. Ultimately he was fighting a losing battle much like Garlo was. But I thought I saw some potential in there.

Of course not, but I'd hazard a guess that having poor training standards just about guarantees that you will not be able to compete for long enough.

Except the young Collingwood players aren't expected to have as much of an impact and even if they do sweet FA they have the likes of Swan, Pendlebury, Cloke, Shaw etc to carry the load. The only players that consistently shoulder the responsibility of the team for us are N Jones and Dawes (throw in Clark in there when playing). They are also given time to develop because they aren't needed till they're more physically developed. To reply to the OP, I'm not angry anymore but it still hurts.

Preaching to the choir mate, I've never given the Frawley talk much credibility because as you said he's contracted. Doesn't stop the media from talking absolute crap.

So those people saying he's unhappy and doesn't like Neeld can eat their words. As I suspected much of that talk has just been hot air blown by media commentators.

The effort was there in the first half but only in patches in the second. Despite that and the margin there were positives, but ultimately were got slaughtered on the rebound. Particularly in the second quarter the amount of times we'd enter our forward half/50 with a promising move only to have it end up at pies end 30sec later was killing us. But I liked the games of Nate and Matt Jones, Garland, Rodan, and Pederson. Watts, Fitzy, Flash, Toumpas, Blease, and Jamar all had good parts in the game. Strange but there were enough positives for me to not want to tear my membership up.

I'll put in $25, I think woman's football as a curtain raiser is a great idea.

Couldn't agree with you more WJ re: The Ox. We're all passionate and hurting, but to call up and threaten a legend of our club (no matter what he has said) is gutless and pathetic, and if you post on here than take a Zanex, take a breath, or just take whatever you need to take to chill the ____ down. Dawes promised a good effort from everyone on the footy show. I'll believe it when I see it, but I know it'll come from from him.

Straight after I read this article I checked to see where Watts was named. It would be a brilliant twist of date if today was the day he came into his own as a forward. It is a rehash, but the handling of Watts was botched so badly we will never escape it. And every QB is the anniversary of it, that's why if he puts in a good one this year it could rid him of those demons.

Bit surprised their throwing Tmac in straight away but good luck to him. I can't see us playing all of Jamar, Dawes, Fitzy, and Gawn in the same team so Gawn will be out as will Sellar. I hope Sylvia is feeling rested and ready to go (no reason why he shouldn't), would really like to see him have a good game v Pies. Final bench for me: McKenzie, Blease, Kent, Tappy (sub)

I guess the point is that every year we hear from the GF teams that they've started pre-season later and had to ease the players in, if Casey got through to the granny then it could potentially put a player 3-4 weeks behind in pre-season so they get a proper rest. I think it can be a case by case deal, but Casey are a part of this club and their success can fuel our successes. When Sandy won all those premierships with the help of the likes of Rigoni, Read, and Broady I think it developed a genuine bond between the clubs. If the players are fit, and willing, then they should play. Hogan is a Casey player this year, I reckon he'd feel he owes it to them to play the year out. Fitzy was the real screw job on Casey last year, he definitely should've played that final.

Barring them being in huge amount of pain (in which case why play them anyway) they should definitely play in Caseys finals. Hogan especially, lets face it he's probably going to have to put up with some bad years with Melbourne, let him enjoy some success with Casey.

I respect the Ox but for him to hope that we get walloped just so the coach can get the flick is poor. If your a true loyal red and blue always us to win, and whether you like Neeld or not you should hope for a win on Monday and success following. It reminds me of Lyons comment of "what happens if they start to win?" Well isn't that the good damn point!

So the only certain out is Chip through injury and I'd say we need another big body so I see Sellar coming in. Tmac wasn't playing well before his injury do he needs weeks at the VFL to get his confidence up before he comes in. Especially against the pies. Fitzy I reckon needs to stay, dropping him does nothing for his confidence so he should have at least another week. Sylvia comes in because we need some quality. Magner should come in as he has earned it and we need some ball winners. We don't need wholesale changes so this is what I see: In: Sellar, Sylvia, Magner Out: Frawley, M Jones, Bail

Well detailed article, he makes no illusions that Neeld is still very much in the firing line but doesn't over simplify the situation unlike most of the footy journos. The issues with the club and the on-field performance are anything but simple.

There were also reports that Neeld was sacked yesterday with McLardy stepping down, 90% of what is being written by the football "journalists", and I use that term loosely, is BS.

Best part of today was the image in my brain of the media just waiting and waiting and waiting for something to happen, and in the end their scoop was that PJ has joined full time till 2014. I reckon a few of them would've gone up a couple of levels in Angry Birds while they were passing the time.

Probably one of the most well thought out and well presented first posts ever I reckon. You make some very good points in there. The so-called moneyball recruiting has been just an easy target for the media IMO, most of the players we got rid of would likely struggle to get a game in our current team let alone other clubs. Moloney is the only one that has hurt and he left because of his frustrations at being overlooked for the leadership group. Pederson and Gillies are the only two I'm not happy with as recruits and Pedo's more to do with his contract than anything else (not Neeld's department). The others all have roles to play at the club, and a fair chunk of that is off-field.

I suppose that's the reward for doing a steller job on buddy. Sucks that he'll be missing for games that we'd classify as in the winnable zone. Not to mention Cloke next week.

Aside from signing PJ to an extension and making the media look like idiots, I can't say I'm overly happy with the outcomes today. I honestly felt it was time for a decision. You either back him for the year or you say it's done, now we are right back in limbo and only a good competitive result week to week will prevent another media s-storm.

I'm glad, but not surprised, PJ's staying on longer term. He obviously knows this isn't a job of simply straightening the ship, first he's got to stop it from sinking!

Aparently Neeld was in there for 90min as opposed to his usual 30min. If they were going to fire him surely they wouldn't drag it out, seems like it'd be something they'd get done quickly, unless they were using the 90min to tell him everything he's done wrong.

The more i think about it the more I hope the McLardy does a presser with Neeld tomorrow saying he's got the year, and the position will be reviewed at the end of the season. For multiple reasons but if nothing else to make reporters such as John Ralph look like the wankers they are. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel the same despair and anger that I did after 186. We played a very well drilled team today and were beaten in skill not effort.