binman

[censored]. Are you trying to wind people up? I went to the game. Saw it live and have watched it a dozen time on video. He in no way ducks. He does not lower his body at all, flex his knees nor incline his head or drop his shoulders. He was running flat out and trying to get down the boundary line and break free. And would have if he didn't have his head ripped off. What's your evidence that he ducked?

Prelim against the Cats who argue given no demon fans go to the footy the game should be at their home game. In a shock move the AFL agree. Jokes. The AFL say no it will be at the MCG and promote the game as a battle between the two oldest clubs in football. One who invented football and the other a bunch of land rich squatters who forget they are a suburb of Melbourne. Both teams have their full list available. Bernie tags both Selwood and Dangerfield out of the game. Viney has 42 possessions, 40 of which are contested. Trac has his break out game and kicks 12. All in the second half. Gawn gets every clearance and Oliver has more kicks than handballs. OMac and his zone crew shut the cats down. They don't score in the first half, save for a rushed behind from Omac who to some inexplicably hits a beautifully timed spoil back into the corridor before the ball does a right turn and bounces through. In his defence he saves a certain goal in the process as spoiling into the corridor was his only option if he wanted to prevent Hawkins marking given OMac was running from the boundary line to the goal square. Tyson has 46 contested possessions at 100% DE. Joeboy says 'just did enough'. Watts runs around looking cool and barely breaks into a sweat, but his GPS indicates he runs 27 clicks, he gives 15 goals assists, is involved in every scoring chain and kicks a left foot banana goal from the wrong pocket. Just coz he can. Melbourne take the foot off the pedal in the last quarter to save some energy for the GF. And win by 186 points.

I have to say that i have always rated ANB but had similar thoughts about Harmes. But he is proving me wrong and like you with ANB i am finding it hard to imagine him being dropped form the seniors. He has cleaned up his decision making, is a very reliable kick for goals, is very flexible in terms of his role and plays super hard.

Agree on all points, particularly in regard to keeping their structure. Good point about them running back in formation and also not having too many go to the contest. Our defensive unit have really improved these elements in the last 6-8 games and one of the obvious outcomes has been the quite dramatic reduction in the easy out the back goals we have given up (with the Darwin game being the exception that proves the rule - though the easy goals were not really the fault of the defensive unit). I agree that Oscar and Frosty needs to clean up their spoiling but it is actually interesting watching a zone versus man on man defence structure. I watched the pies game today and whilst, like all AFL clubs, they play a zone defence it leans much more to man on man than ours. Which allows someone like Dunn to be spoiling when they are physically right next to their opponent. Dunn is good at this as he can use his strength and skill in reading the flight of the ball. He can also enage his opponent alowing a player like Howe to come in as third man up. But he is not as good running to a contest and struggles playing the zone. Which is why we traded him. Our talls (indeed all our back six) don't really have a direct opponent and often give a player like Dixon quite a lot of space, with a player in front, behind and to the side. Something you can really see from up high behind the goals. This means that when spoiling they often are coming to the contest at speed and have to time their jump and have less opportunity to use their body to bump the player. Tricky to do but critical in a zone defence. Dixon's first goal was a great example of this with Frost having to slightly come back with the flight and OMac from the side to effect the spoil, which neither did obviously. It is worth noting in this context that our biggest defensive worry this week was getting smashed in the air up forward by one of the highest scoring sides in the AFL with one of the dominant marking forwards going around. That didn't happen, in large part due to our ability to spoil their marking attempts. We went withing a whisker - and a couple of dodgy free kick - of keeping the Port side from scoring a goals in a the first half of a game, something that has never happened. As you say a very impressive defensive performance.

No way he ducked. Strange you think so to be honest because the video evidence that he didn't duck is incontrovertible. It's not one of those scenarios where opinion comes much into play.

My dream scenario. Tigers finsih 4th. As a reward they play the Crows in Adelaide. In front of a manic crows crowd they have a shocking run with the umps, thier fans go crazy and the crows [censored] them by 10 goals. No one gets seriously injured but one or two key players have niggling soft tissue injuries. Demoralised and sore they front up against a rampant dees at a packed MCG. The dees have easily won their elimination final and are on serious roll. They have all key players available, many of who are fresh, having missed big chunks of the season. In the elimination final they were able to give Gawn a good rest in the final quarter given their lead. The dees [censored] Richmond who are left bereft and in shock.

You might be right, though not all oft criticized players with few games under their belt are afforded the same latitude. Tyson certainly wasn't in his first season at the dees on these boards. And i'm not sure what you mean by Hunts disposal being mentioned each week.? it is mentioned sometimes but rarely in a critical fashion - more in a he will clean that aspect up but jeez isn't he great to watch kind of way But again i feel as if you are missing my point. I wasn't trying to defend Tyson or criticise Hunt. By the by in case there is a misunderstanding i'm not having a go at you or suggesting you are being biased. Though i would say we all have our biases. Personally mine are on the positive side. I tend to see good bits of play that conform things i rate about players and perhaps miss examples of weaknesses (though i try not to and for players i have found myself defending i am vert alert to them) . On Tyson i agree his disposal is frustrating and needs to be improved. But there is a limit to how much it will be. And i find his errors frustrating. But i find all errors frustrating. Without having a shot at you i'm not quite sure though what your point is about him other than as a senior player he should do better. He's probably not going to ever do much better. So perhaps he has found his level. Are you arguing we should not play him and he should play at Casey until he improves your required level? Or perhaps that we should trade him at seasons end (he would have currency and be in high demand - it could help in a trade for Lever).

Sorry DA i think you are missing my point. I wasn't comparing Tyson and Hunt as players. I was pointing out in my rather long winded fashion something i find interesting about confirmation bias. That some players errors do not seem to get much attention, whereas other's errors get highlighted. It might be that people really dislike a certain part of a players game and perhaps this a trigger for them. For example we'd all be rich if we got a dollar for every comment on DL about Watts's perceived lack of intensity (good smother by the by wattsy) or examples of this perceived flaw. Or more positively a dollar for every bit of praise for Hunt's dash and energy or examples of this strength. Anyway i find the idea of confirmation bias interesting as it applies to the propensity by posters to see errors by some players to confirm perceived weaknesses. And by the by, as you might recall Tyson was receiving criticism on DL for his disposal in first season at the dees when he had as few games under his belt as Hunt does now. Out of interest what's your opinion as to why Hunt receives little, if any, criticism on DL for his poor disposal week in week out?

You're right Just watched the first few minutes of the first quarter (and the rest of the q in review fashion). My bad. My memory was faulty. Perhaps i have some unconscious Hunt bias. But my point wasn't to bag Hunt but to point out there was not a single criticism of him, despite his poor disposal all day. Having done my review of the first quarter hunts disposal came out not so great. As you say his first kick hit ANB. His second he kicked it, under little pressure, 15 meters to a Port player. His third kick he tried to centre the ball from about 30 near the boundary, mishit it and it rolled through for a point. His fourth kick he tried to clear from deep inside our 50 and under pressure kicked it straight to Harlett, who was all by himself for a 50 reentry. His fifth kick he shanked a 'wobbly one' (or so Hudson said in the box) under some pressure and up against the boundary line 20 meters that missed his target and almost caused a turnover. That was his possessions in the first quarter (unless i missed a handball, which i don't think i did). Five kicks. Only one hit a target and there were two clangers. To be truthful. He got comprehensively out marked by Ollie wines (no hanging offence given he is younger and Wines is much stronger) and his only other meaningful contribution in the quarter was his brilliant smother. For some players this sort of quarter would bring howls of derision and provide evidence of their weaknesses. But not Hunt. Because people love him. Again don't get me wrong, i am not bagging Hunt. He is an excellent player. I love him. All players have their strength and weaknesses and like Tyson disposal is Hunts. Tyson and Hunt share another similarity. They are both critical players for our chances in the finals, despite their weaknesses.

Top post VP, with a number of excellent points. As you say the defensive unit is playing brilliantly together - the synergy is obvious. Synergy for the back half has always been critical, but now more than ever with the zone defence being the key defensive strategy. And Melbourne play an incredibly aggressive zone, a real hallmark of Goody's philosophy. Yesterdays game the back six just seemed to know where each other were at all times and had total trust, as you must do with a zone defence. So may times they worked the ball out in that triangle they use and there were so many examples of teammates coming to contests to help each other out and killing marking contest as the third man. Great stuff. A player marking by themselves in the back half can look like just a poor kick from the opposing team but is often the result of the zone working really well, something i like watching from the top of the Ponsford and can be easy to miss on TV or from the wing live. Building a great zone takes a huge amount of time and effort and we have it working beautifully as the results reflect. I find confirmation bias really fascinating. Players like Tyson and Watts seem to polarise views, with some disliking aspects of their game a great deal. For some their errors seem to be like a flashing light and rarely seem to be mitigated by their good work. Whereas other players are universally loved and seem to get a pass with their errors and only praised for all their good work. Hunt is a good example. Everyone loves his dash and run yet i have not read a single criticism of his disposal in yesterday's game. It was woeful, going at a terrible 50%, with 5 clangers compared to the much maligned Tyon's 58.6% and 6 respectively. Hunt's first two kicks were 20 metre kicks under little pressure straight to a Port player and third was a poor kick to a contest resulting in another turnover. Add to the fact that on a number of occasions he bombed it long into our forward line to our forwards disadvantage or straight to a port player and watched it go straight back out. And this was not an isolated performance. His disposal has always been average but quite poor in the last few weeks. Yet barely a harsh word is said about him. Don't get me wrong he was great yesterday and really important for us despite his poor disposal. Like Tyson. In terms of confirmation bias a pet hate of mine is when commentators make a point about a player or a specific incident and it gets amplified here on DL and despite most saying how poor footy commentators are becomes almost a statement of fact. And conveniently reinforces the bias.

Great touch that casey also played in the Koori jumper, which by the by i reckon is spectacular. i saw at the g today on the big screen that in addition to jumpers they have them in t shirts also. Will have to buy one.

Watch as live at 8pm. No question

He's not even a naughty boy....

You have to laugh. The politically correct elite and progressive establishment really give the conservative minority like poor old Sam Newman such a hard time. How ever do they cope? Just read an online Hun article about Sam Newman's performance on the FS last night. Here are some of the comments: Paul41 minutes ago It's obvious Newman's conservative views have clashed with the so-called progressive establishment spouting their usual socialist, PC bull****. Leave Sam, we all know you're a showman and yes, you go over the top, but I find it a breath of fresh air when your views contravene the pathetic PC circus, of which many of us have had a gut full. Michael1 hour ago Looks like the politically correct elite have infiltrated all aspects of our lives now. Sam not allowed to say what he thinks, what a joke! Leave now Sam and live the rest of your life being yourself and not somebody else's puppet. Greg1 hour ago I agree Sam Newman should go. He should be replaced by a woman, an aboriginal, a muslim, an LGBTI, and a couple of other minority groups for good measure. FlagShare 10LikeReply

Agree. A terrific mark and a big worry for us.

A good point. That stat is a worry but one mitigating factor is we have had Hoges, Gawn and Watts out for chunks of the season - probably our three highest marking players. Not only has that meant fewer marks for us, the players who would have otherwise played directly on them are freed up to mark more often.

Good point. I'd add that at risk of being accused a winger, Hoges rarely seems not to get the sort of frees for marking infringements that other key forwards (eg Tmac) regularly get. There was one at the end of the first quarter last game where the defender had him wrapped up and took his eye of the ball, which is usually a big flag for a free. Jessie just dropped the mark but should have got the free i reckon. I wonder if it is something about his body language that gives umps pause for thought when assessing if a free is there - not that Jessie stages but he can be quite demonstrative when he is being held, which might be working against him (which, if so is stupid). Saturday arvo, red ball,l at the G and his third game back - and with his compadre in Watts back in. I reckon he will tear it up.

Demonland's dark web (aka the General forum) is a very, very scary place. It is land of pseudo science, rejection of logic, anger, angst and dividing everything in a neat left - right binary (with the mean crazy lefties waging their PC war against the real hard done by minorities - middle class, older white men who want things to go back to how they used to be). It is remarkably similar to the comments section in the Hun. Go there are your own peril.

So OMac is line depth? Ridiculous. A game we have to win. Almost a final. Goodwin and the club desperate to make finals. All year Goodwin has made clear he will pick the best 22. It is one reason Weeds, after getting a shot at early, has, despite to our injuries to key forwards, played almost all the season at Casey not developing his craft in the seniors. Development is simply not in the equations as it could be argued was the case last year. Watts, Gawn and Hogan back in the side. Pederson fit and a reliable performer this year, so could play up forward, give Gawn a chop out and release TMac to the back half. Not a single reason in the world to pick Oscar McDonald. Yet they have. In the starting 18. Those that don't rate Oscar McDonald are of course free to have their opinion. Forums like DL area all about opinions. It could be argued, with some justification, i have made over clear I disagree with that opinion. But what simply cannot be argued is that the club and Goody in particular, like me, rate Oscar McDonald very, very highly. I said ages ago when it was argued by some that Oscar McDonald would be dropped when we got all our bigs back that if it occurred i would admit i was wrong and acknowledge the views of those that thought he was lucky to be in the side. I will leave it here and give up my Omac crusade. The club have made it crystal clear now where they rate him. All power to them. Pun intended.

I am leading a RAP process for the organisation i work for. Fascinating and powerful process that cannot be undertaken in a tokenistic way and involves a great deal of organisational commitment, both in terms of time and preparedness to be challenged on a range of levels. Reconciliation Australia, who have to approve a RAP is very supportive. A terrific thing for the club to undertake. And necessary. In Feb 2015 i went to the AGM and there was a real oversight in so far as neither Glen Bartlett or Peter Jackson acknowledged the traditional owners of the land or paid respect to elders past and present. In fact no one did. It was disappointing on a number of levels. Firstly it should happen at any formal event such as an AGM (and some would argue at things such as board meetings etc). Secondly as I understand it the land on which the MCG sits has special significance to the Wurundjeri people (tribes of the Kulin nation used the area as a meeting place). Finally – and perhaps of most significance – Flash was given life membership, which, for me at least, really highlighted this oversight. I emailed the club with my concerns and very much to their credit they acknowledged the oversight and since then have the acknowledgement and when appropriate at key events also a formal a welcome to country from an Aboriginal elder. The fact it was not standard practice to acknowledge the traditional owners and pay respects to elders past and present gives a little context i reckon to Liam Jurrah's comment in this article that if the dees had introduced a Reconciliation Action Plan during his time at the club, he believes he would have been better prepared to make the transition from a remote indigenous community.

Why?

Love him. He's due a screamer. A player who couls bob up with 3 critical goals in a final. Really tricky match up too.

I reckon there is something in this. Everyone was talkung about the doggie's injuries last year but easy to forget by finals time (and helped by the ore finals week off) they had an almost full side, many of whom had time to freshen up, albeit through injury

Watts will be tbe key in. Having him out has really demonstrated how critical he is to our side, particularly his composure and delivery of rhe ball indide 50. I also suspect hoges will love having him back, as much for rheir obvious bond as the improved delivery he'll get.

The point of the Op was not that we need tough players that play unsociable football. It was that Jones was unfair on Vince with his comments. But to add some counter balance to the roll call of players who have supposedly won grand finals for their team i'd offer up Steve Johnson who i reckon cost GWS a flag by getting suspended for the sort of boneheaded snipe that Vince has just got done for. On the the toughness front Goody has made it clear his team needs to be uncompromising, physical and attack the ball with ferocity. But play the ball not the man. In essence this is what Jones is reinforcing. And i reckon the dees are not far off what he is demanding.