Webber

Was the free kick paid against Jack Grimes in front of goal in the third quarter, for holding the ball, the worst decision ever, or just this year?

6.Moloney 5.Bate 4.Jones 3.Bruce 2.Sylvia 1.Trengove Yeeeeeahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

For weeks now, I've been reading posters here slagging off Cam Bruce and Matthew Bate, and have been struck by the intolerance, impatience and short memories. So here are their stats from last night. Bruce : 25 disposals, 11 kicks, 14 handballs at 92% effectiveness(3rd behind Warnock and Grimes),9 marks, 9 contested possessions (4th behind Sylvia, Petterd and Bate), NO clangers, 4 tackles (in the top half), and all at 91% game time (2nd behind Warnock). Bate : 26 disposals (2nd), 12 kicks, 14 handballs at 69% effective (about midway), 11 marks (the most by 3), 11 contested possessions (equal top with Sylvia), 5 inside 50's (fourth best), 1 clanger and 89% game time. Matthew Bate is now coming into his 'peak' years, and patience is a virtue. I would love to think this will go a long way toward shutting up the whingers and moaners about these two. And don't get me started on the undervaluing of Nathan Jones, who consistently delivers the ball inside 50 more times and with greater accuracy than he gets credit for. Remember also that at 22, his best is yet to come.

Totally agree, Cam Bruce gets a flogging from many supporters, but has consistently been a creative and dedicated influence over the team. We all know his limitations, but I'll take the positive aspects of his football any day. He will remain one of the first 10 players selected weekly.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving sport : puts Rugby League into its true position, an ugly bastardisation of a much superior game, Rugby Union. I have said for years that League will eventually die/be absorbed into Rugby Union (in fact it has been inevitable since Union went professional). Now that the Melbourne Rebels (super 15)are starting up, that will be the end of the League experiment in Melbourne. And good riddance to it. A boring, one dimensional, tactically uninteresting slug-fest, it has fringe value only, and the fringe is being trimmed! It might also wake Sydneysiders up to the fact that the sport borne of this land in every sense, is the one which best uses space, speed, athleticism and harmonising teamwork.....Australian Football. RIP Storm, it's been ugly.

6.McDonald 5.Moloney 4.Jones 3.Jamar 2.Sylvia 1.Bruce

Spot on, I remember the game, Jamar kicked 5, and Carlton were looking decidedly ordinary : Bails got nervous about the upset, so bye-bye Chipper. Notice how I didn't mention the word 'tank'...........oops!

Tapscott had arthroscopic hip surgery, not serious, and he will recover, but will be given time. Max Gawn had a knee reconstruction BEFORE he was drafted, and is apparently on track with his rehab. At his age and size, we look at 12 months before competitive football. Why would you even think of delisting? PERSPECTIVE! It usually helps with commonsense. PS I'm a physio.

Chris Connolly has the complete faith of Jimmy Stynes, and this says it all. This is now a 'club' with the kind of solidarity we haven't seen for a long, long time, and still there's a chorus of pea-brains amongst our supporters who [censored] and moan from a position of complete ignorance. Witness also the ridiculous postings on Jack Watts, and the weekly spray of vitreole to a rotating host of players. Whilst this has been less in the past two weeks, almost no-one escapes. This is a fan website, sometimes fascinating, sometimes funny, often infuriating, and too often just pathological. Part of enjoying the seeds of resurgence we are seeing is to seek out the enjoyment of others, but so often it ends up being wild negative speculation. As was written in an old song...'you've got to accentuate the positive'. A worthy mantra I'd say, and doesn't it kind of sit closer to the Jimmy Stynes method?

Nathan Jones is a talisman for this team. In the second half of last year, his decision making and disposal jumped a couple of levels, it was a very obvious shift. His first couple of games this year were a bit scratchy, but Adelaide was a shift up again, and Sunday's game was frankly close to flawless from Jonesy. His ability to assess the right option and make it stick was excellent, and his passing into the 50 was pinpoint (if you can call 50 metre kicks that never get above 3m off the ground, passes). Look at the replay, and tell me his delivery wasn't exquisite. Remember Stephen Tingay's foot passing at his best? That's what we're lookin' at with Jonesy. He is rolled gold, a true demon.

Agreed. What needs to be remembered is that the selection commitee know more than all of us, that Newton had the least impact on last week's result of all players, and that they will have considered the Jamar injury issue. Newton is not a ruckman, and Garland or Dunn would do just as good a back-up job. It's all very logical and therefore obvious. My relief is palpable.

Totally agree, Scully has been beyond good enough, Newton out as he serves absolutely no purpose, including the ruck.

Scully. Saw him play for Vic Metro in carnival last year. Ridiculously dominant, a ball magnet with lightning reactions. As he finds his feet in the big tent, and the confidence that comes with it : disposals and decision making, your jaws will all be dropping. Remember he has played only 3 games with men over 18.

Bennell was a revelation yesterday. Plain and simple. Look at his stats in the papers, and tell me if his 'clangers' tally makes any sense of the idea that he made mistakes?

I'm not debating the relative risks of a big body against small, but was SPECIFICALLY referring to dislocated shoulders. Totally agree that Watts should be physically ready, but if he were 15kg bigger of pure muscle, his shoulder would still be subject to the same mechanical risks as LJ's was. As a physio, I know what I'm talking about.

Poseidon Burke, your comment on Jurrah's injury bears no relationship to reality. Dislocated shoulders are a function of specific instantaneous force with the shoulder in an extreme position of vulnerability. Just ask Brent Moloney about his own, which was surgically stabilised 2 years ago. His shoulder was not 'underprepared', he was just unlucky. Get over it!

And that is precisely the point in fashioning him into a forward. He has the ability, but lacks the experience, hence why he is playing forward with Casey. He will be one of our key forwards over the coming years, and you will be screaming his name with delight. Have just read the thread on changes for next week, and it's remarkable how many people want to keep Newton. WHY????????????????????

There's an extraordinary degree of latitude being given to Michael Newton out there. I've seen EVERY game he's played for the Dee's since 2008, and probably 5 on TV for Sandy/Casey, and without wanting to be harsh, he is unequivocally the least deserving player currently getting a game for any club in the AFL. At no stage, EVER, have I seen him warrant reselection, and that includes his 'mark of the year' game. Strangely though, I expect him to be reselected this week, but would love to know the reason. By contrast, Stefan Martin is a 4th year footballer, and I mean 4th year since he started playing the game at all, is an athletic freak, and, which is something people forget, was an excellent tall defender in his first year. Then they started floating him around ruck and forward last year, which threw him off a bit. Clearly the reason for this, and the fact he has been contracted til the end of 2011, is to fashion him into a tall forward. This frankly excites me. His speed, leap, growing footy skills and judgement, will come to fruition in the future. It there is one thing that Stynes, Scwab, Connolly and Bailey seem to be, it is VERY committed to their vision, and they will not be rushed for short term appeasement.

I reckon most of the opinions here are a work in progress....or should that be regress.

Go easy on the speculations guys. I am a physiotherapist, and Liam Jurrah has had a shoulder reconstruction. When you dislocate the shoulder, the supportive tissues at the front of the shoulder are torn, and the cartilage 'ring' which rims the socket (which is more like a dish really) is also usually torn. The problem you have without surgery is that the joint is 'unstable'. Any degree of force on the upper arm at the top (the ball of the humerus) will again dislocate the shoulder. This means the ball sits in front of the socket, unable to go back on its own. Surgery involves reattaching the cartilage rim, repairing and tightening the supportive tissues (ligaments and capsule) and basically 'double-breasting' one of the muscles at the front of the joint to reinforce it even further. The time to rehabilitate is longer than some other surgeries because not only are you dealing with the tissue repair (a natural process), but more time consuming is returning full range of movement. Rotate your own arms around and you'll quickly realise it has an enormous scope. It is inherently a very lax joint so needs to be secure. Also, because there is a period of immobilisation, strength needs to be regained. Liam Jurrah's quoted time frame to return is ambitious, but rest assured if anybody is going to acheive it, a professional footballer will. Also, his pre-injury strength was at a level that maximises the speed of recovery. Addam Maric and James Strauss both had the same surgeries toward the end of last season. Daniel Bell dislocated his A-C joint, the junction between the Acromion (the end of the shoulder blade) and the clavicle (collarbone). There are degrees of injury. Grade 1 is a week out if that, Grade 2 is 3 to 4 weeks. Grade 3, a complete seperation of the ends, means surgery (depending), but also time to heal the fully ruptured ligaments involved. 6 to 8 weeks. Both of them will fully recover, and while there may be flexibility on the dates, particularly for LJ, they'll be there.

Satyricon and Calabrese boy are on the money. I signed up to Demonland only yesterday, having supported since I was born or as long as I can remember, whichever comes first! So whilst we as Melbourne supporters are used to disappointment, frustration and the never-ending cycle of expectation, we should also be practised at patience. Having spent an hour reading posts yesterday, and trying to be as dispassionate as possible, it is frankly staggering to read the array of sometimes irrational responses to a 9 goal beating by a team with a beautifully embedded game-day method. Even with their injuries and suspensions, the extent to which Hawthorn are successfully marshalled by Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Brown, is infective. Their new boys shine because the confidence is palpable and the method reliable, and the rest is history. None of this diminishes the failings of the Dees, which are palpable and hard to watch, but perspective is what we require. As is so often seen in teams developing a 'core' playing group, where 18 of the 22 pick themselves week in, week out, confidence is the key factor. This is so clearly seen with both Geelong, Hawthorn and the Doggies over the last few years. Dean Bailey is indisputably right when he says these guys need time on the ground, and time together, and that just hasn't been the case for the last 2 years. The turnover rate of players at the club in the last 2 years has been dizzying, and it is mad to expect a unified, slick machine as a result. Even desperation, commitment and 'do or die' effort are a product of unification and confidence. Let them become "A TEAM", and view each week with that in mind. The pain gives the pleasure meaning (apologies to C.S.Lewis), and in an odd way I enjoy experiencing the process, because I know that first future victory against Collingwood (it won't be this week)will be sweeter than pineapple marinated in honey. Lastly, for some of you to start bagging Cameron Bruce (no game time for the previous 3 weeks) and James McDonald (in the context of the need for senior stability) is just jaw-dropping. All I could think whilst reading this, is that if Brad Green had been the one to have an 'off-day', he'd be on the recieving end as well. Time to step back and see the bigger picture.