Webber

In regard to Michael Newton, try this thought experiment.....imagine that up until this year, he was playing for Williamstown in the VFL. Melbourne decided to take him on as a mature age rookie in the manner of Barlow, Duigan or Podsiadly. He played at Casey and earned his spot in the 1's against North (whatever the reasons). With this view, how would you think he performed on Saturday? Would you pick him next week? Would you see him as one of the positives from the game? My point is, could he be a late maturer, in the manner of those players mentioned above? I admit to being frustrated that he was kept at MFC this year, but equally I have to admit that the above is possible.

Just as I suspected wyl, all the players you have named are from the Northey era....the only time in my life as a Melbourne supporter when I KNEW the team would leave it all on the park. As has been mentioned, they were a shade short on premiership ability as a team, but they were hard, and never lay down. Now who on that list is currently at the club, and has been through coaching apprenticeships at other clubs? I was convinced Todd Viney would put himself forward for the gig post Neale Daniher, but maybe he didn't feel he had the experience at that time. I know he's not the 'premiership' coach many feel we HAVE to have, but isn't he the type of 'culture' we're looking for? I think Malthouse or Matthews would be a huge mistake. I cannot imagine Malthouse maintaining his enthusiasm for coaching at another 'development' club, and Matthews time has passed. Paul Roos is worth considering if he was interested, and beyond that, if there aren't any premiership coaches available, why not Todd Viney?

Jonesy would make a great future captain, but can you imagine the meltdown on Demonland from the 'he's C-grade' brigade?

If we were to look for uncompromising 'hardness' and 'never say die' qualities in MFC players since 1985, who would be the players you would name, present list excluded? In other words, those who were NOT an example of the 'soft' culture we're debating. Would Todd Viney be one of those?

It was a pass to equal any of Aaron Davey or Stephen Tingay's best.....thrillworthy!

Couldn't agree more.... he embodies the reason I can remain loyal to this team despite some of the garbage they have served up this season. His development has been consistent, and he is as hard a worker as I have seen. The criticism of him is so misplaced as to be pathological. At the game on Saturday, after Jones had kicked long from the back pocket to a leading Watts on the wing, where the contest took the ball out of bounds, one of OUR supporters yelled, and I quote "you're rubbish Jones, I'd rather have 17 players out there than have you making up 18". What is that? Honestly, where does that come from? Needless to say, he was given an equivalent level of abuse from ALL the Melbourne supporters around within ear shot. I can only hope he felt like the idiot that he is. I was at the game with my brother, a fellow supporter and psychiatrist, and his professional spin on the Jones-hating is interesting. He has effectively become, largely because he is so visible, is a midfielder, and just doesn't miss games, emblematic of this team and all its frustrations. Even when we play well, there are those who will never consider the part Jones has in it. He is not the talisman of victory. When we play badly, he is noticed to the disproportionate opposite, he is it seems the talisman of defeat. Why this is so is probably unanswerable.... Well done Nathan Jones, you are a footballer's footballer.

Inclined to agree, and whilst his errors are frustrating, I can see the beautiful butterfly starting to poke its way out of the chrysalis.....too much ???? Aussie on the other hand, whilst many of us have a big soft spot for him, just can't be kept in the team with his lack of influence. We would like to think he can be the damaging small forward, but he's just not working hard enough in the right ways. The same could be said for Jamie Bennell at the moment, his lack of influence as an 'outside' player is frustrating, because we all know he has talent. One thing's for sure and whatever happens with selection, they will get more chances to earn back the love. Newton is a dilemma. I basically and previously believed he is a citrus fruit of the yellow variety, but he was frankly a revelation in the first quarter. Marks, goals, tackles, assists, and don't forget how beautifully he milked that little slap for a 50m penalty! He didn't disgrace himself from there on, but did he do enough to earn his spot next week? If we were all prepared to ignore his history, e.g. imagine it was his first game for the club after being recruited mature age from the VFL, a la Duigan at Carlton, he definitely would. Should we look at him as maybe a late bloomer? Stranger things have happened, and it would be a massive bonus for the club. All those who berate Martin for his efforts on Saturday need to T.A.L.H.L.A.T (take a long hard look at themselves). He was UNARGUABLY in our best 5 players. Rivers and McKenzie are definite ins. Bate, MacDonald, Gawn, Morton, and Evans are all maybe's. It's gonna be a fascinating week at the MFC, and there will be change, but remember.......a change is as good as a holiday. And who doesn't love a holiday ?

Seems to be the consensus, but given St.Kilda's height, Gawn may be a punt worth taking....allows Martin, who is super fit, to be used down back if required. Sure he is raw, gives away free kicks and probably would have nil impact around the ground, but height may be an issue for us.

Agree agree agree.....how does Stef becomes the whipping boy to some here based on yesterday??????????? Just amazingly wrongheaded.

6. Jones 5. Martin 4. Frawley 3. Sylvia 2. Watts 1. The umpires, for being brave enough to stay out there despite being a total embarrassment to the notions of consistency and logic.

Totally wholeheartedly agree on Stef Martin......his development as a ruckman in the space of less than 10 games has been excellent, and a rapid development curve, albeit overshadowed by the fact that we are a woeful football team. Did anybody notice how he roved his own hitouts in the first quarter? If they leave him in the ones and stop stuffing around with him at Casey, within 2 to 3 years he will become one of the league's best versatile talls.....LET HIM DEVELOP IN THE AFL!!!!!!!!!

The MOST disappointing thing from today is that it shows where we sit by comparison to other clubs on the same/similar arc of renewal or rebuild. West Coast, North Melbourne, Richmond and Essendon would have been our points of comparison based on last year. We WILL be beaten WELL by all of them this year, and they will all finish ahead of us on the ladder at year's end. This is because they are better teams, and are developing in line with expectations or better. Clearly, it should be argued that the MFC are not even holding ground. We ARE on an arc......it's an arc of perpetual sub-mediocrity. There can be no argument about this, suspensions, injuries or all manner of whinge-worthy misfortunes taken into account. Being completely objective for a moment, there is no possibility that Dean Bailey will survive. Putting aside any feelings about his performance either way, the law of the AFL jungle will see him depart the MFC, simply because there is no justification for him remaining. Would that it were not so, but that's life.

North were 1-5 because of who they had played. They are just a better football team than Melbourne, with equal injury concerns. They will finish ahead of us this year, and they will deserve to. We are beyond brittle, as evidenced by excuse making through injury. We don't have the ability to suck it up often enough when it counts, and today it counted. The goose of our year is cooked, and it's just sad.

St. Kilda will be absolutely licking their lips at the thought that we are going to resurrect their season....10 goal loss easy. We are rubbish, and I soooo wish it wasn't so.

The inconsistency from game to game and umpire to umpire has never been greater than this season....e.g hands in/on the back, chopping arms in the mark, prior opportunity, correct disposal...all of the above are basically open to an interpretation which bears a striking resemblance to a raffle. It makes the game very hard to watch at times, and even when we're winning.

Today was our chance to prove something REAL after last week's redemption....but we were outclassed, outmuscled, wildly outrun, outgutsed and outcoached. For me, it was truly the game to show us where we are going to be this season. Somehow, up until now it's been hard to get a handle on our true status. Now it is true to say we are absolutely at the same level as Brisbane, Port and Adelaide, who would be our competition for the spoon if it weren't for GC. Anybody who believes we are at the Richmond and North Melbourne level is kidding themselves. Both are simply clearly better sides, who have had a tough intro to the season. They will slip above us on the ladder shortly and with very little trouble. It's a sad reality, but WE JUST AREN'T ANY GOOD, and most disturbingly, we have NO CONSISTENT HEART to compensate for that fact. It's tiring and frustrating to keep looking for reasons why this is so, but whatever they are, it's just the truth. We are going to get some serious thumpings this year, and for better or worse it's hard not to believe there will be some big changes in the coaching and playing personnel as a result. Today was NOT about personnel, it was about the TEAM, and they wilted in the worst way. I literally shudder to think what the rest of the season holds....2 or 3 more wins will be see our season out, and by any estimation, that is a massive disappointment based on the draw, and all of our most fervent wishes for improvement. It's tough not to be able to offer anything constructive or hopeful, but today there is nothing to offer.

Can we get any isolated footage of this Varcoe tackle, and make it available as a direct comparison to the Trengove tackle, perhaps to headline the 'Free Jack' Facebook page?

Jetta or Joel Mac for Jack? I'm thinking either would be a risk, because of their hard tackling...

As above...clear, concise, logical.

Utter garbage! He had been a revelation this year until West Coast, and he was dropped for balance as much as form against Adelaide.

Depends if they think they need to 'set a precedent'.....I fear the horns on Jack's head may be morphing from demon to goat.

It's going to be very interesting with Tom, the patella is under enormous load with running. This isn't the first time he has had problems with it. There'll be a lot of nervous people seeing how his patella joint surface holds up to the increased load. Not to be a doomsdayer, but his ultimate return is not an assured thing. Cruelly, joint surfaces can start to degenerate early under repeated damage. Fingers crossed.

If it is Stef's ribs, as vaguely reported, then it's one of two situations...fractured or bruised. I'm assuming bruised. That being the case, the only prohibition to him playing is pain. There is no greater risk of injury or other consequences to playing with bruised ribs, so if he can do what he needs to do within the pain, he's good to go. He will of course have an injection. Suck it up Stef, and kick some kangaroo!

I reckon now would be the time to drop Moloney, just to really teach him a lesson

Out: Trengove (for perfect tackling), Jamar (for being indispensable), Grimes (so he doesn't get cocky, thinking he can string more than 6 uninjured games together), Moloney (cos if you're being cruelled by the footy gods, then you might as well play along) Possible Ins :Rivers (now we just know he's NOT gonna come up now) Martin (what, him too?), Spencer (OOPS), Fitzpatrick (hang on...), Campbell (is he on the playing list, or coaching staff?) Real Ins: MacDonald (so he can hurt someone, and make us all feel better), Bennell and Morton (to give us someone to blame if North keep their habit of Dee-beatings) Evans or Nicholson (so we can unearth the next great hope and then debate their worth as trade bait over the next couple of years), Newton (and I NEVER thought I'd see myself write this!!!!)