Webber

6.Moloney 5.Jones (according to some they are still both C-graders!Bizzare.) 4.Trengove 3.Green 2.Watts 1.Bail

Presumptuous and conspiratorial waffle.

Excellent point. Whilst he is not at his best, and looking worse because the team is struggling, he is a galaxy away from being justifiably dropped. The idea is simply ridiculous, and reflects the number of desperate pseudo-remedies that are spouted on demonland. It is possible to have passion and logic live together.

Interesting review.....largely I would agree with you Snoopy, but it's a dangerous game to play. You risk damaging confidence from every position necessary to maintain a progressive spirit. From the team, to the board, to the media, and most importantly supporters. I think the Morton experiment defines it well. He was staggeringly played against Brisbane, unfairly to him I believe, and it has backfired. He looks lacking in all aspects of the game at the moment, and I reckon it is that he is recovering from being thrown to the Lions (so to speak). At a larger level, it's the same for the team.

Most sensible suggestion yet......but Cale Morton must go also. Petterd hasn't been great at Casey, but honestly how could he be worse than Morton. Competitive vigour is what we are lacking, and I've always thought Ricky has it. Those who are questioning Stef Martin's value.....just head scratching stuff. He has been excellent this year, which means forgetting Thursday (for everyone), he has runs on the board.

This game is interesting for a few reasons....whilst Casey are winning by 8 goals or so, what's notable in the context of this season's death of the MFC on Thursday night, is the similar lack of intensity of the Scorpions. They are being caught behind, consistently waiting for the error and the receive (which they are getting a lot of and kicking goals), and showing a woeful lack of physical presence and clean skills. Given that Frankston are the easybeats of the VFL, this is just amazing. I can only come to the conclusion that there is an infection of gutlessness at the heart of the MFC and it's associates....we have so many frontrunners it's just scary. Who has stood up today, as at 3 quarter time.....hmmmmm? Bate is dominant, sure, but do we really expect him to be better than he has really shown so far in the AFL? Logic says he should get a call-up though, and he should be [censored] off it he doesn't get it. Ricky Petterd? I know there is a level of demonland enthusiasm for him, but has he really shown today that he wants/deserves a gig next week? I wish he had, but not on today's effort. Nicholson and Evans....equally willing, and getting a bit of it, but not for 4 quarters I would venture. Jeremy Howe gives me the most hope. He is skilled, competitive, and seems to be adjusting to the pace of the VFL pretty quickly, but not AFL yet. Similar feelings about Tom McDonald, but less ready. Jetta, no, because he's not physical enough, and just floats in and out. Newton, still can't take a contested mark. I guess I wanted to see some 'hardness' and a bit of mongrel intensity from the Scorpions today.....maybe to compensate for the gutless wonders of Thursday. It isn't there, and it seems it's not in our nature. Those who were looking for justified wholesale changes before Adelaide, it isn't going to happen. Bate in for Morton. That's all I can see.

It's on the box KC, that's why...

I hate knee jerk reactions like midseason coach sackings, but oh how my knee is twitching right now!!!!!!! Something FUNDAMENTAL has to change, because something is, and sadly has been for most of my 40 year supporting, fundamentally wrong with the playing performance of this club.

Reasonably put, but your first point is suggesting there is a player 'malaise' at the club. The players were selected from a pool which provides players for the whole competition. The problem therefore lies not with the personnel, (which frankly is very evenly spread through the AFL but at different stages of development) but the way as a team they are dynamically assembled. That is, what the personnel are COACHED and MOTIVATED to do, as individuals for the collective goal. There is blame here, and not just this game but the season so far, and it sadly lies with the coaching. Your second point is in fact a suggestion as to how the team should be coached. Need I say it? Coaching.

This team is lost.....there is no other way to describe it...they are playing spineless reactionary football. We know it is not a matter of the player talent. The competition largely contains an even spread of talent, and the draft creates that, albeit that they are at different stages of development. What then, is the difference at Melbourne? It simply must be the coaching, and the apparent lack of ability to instill a hardness of approach. I have so desperately wanted to avoid that conclusion, but there is no other. For what other reason does our team consistently, and I mean game after game, show a lack of sheer team oriented desire? At the very least you want to see a consistent determination and a sense of pride. It makes me in equal parts embarrassed and frustrated to be a supporter of this club. The irony is that I think we will beat Adelaide. In the warm protected cocoon of the MCG, we'll put out enough to win, and maybe by a decent margin, but there'll be absolutely no less frustration, because any way you look at it, it would be a soft win. I want to see hard wins, or even hard losses, and three times a year isn't enough. I want to support a club that makes me feel their pride and desire, and I feel sorry for guys like Jack Trengove, Luke Tapscott, Brent Moloney, Nathan Jones, Mark Jamar and some others who have to sit on this rudderless yacht. I'd be looking for any possility to jump ship. It wouldn't be disloyalty, just a means to preserve what pride they have left.

Very sadly, what this quarter has confirmed, as if the season so far hasn't, is that we are the most spineless team in the AFL.......the commentators and every other club knows it, and our lack of physical intensity and accountability is rapidly turning us into a laughing stock.

Nice post Bhima. I agree wholeheartedly about the 23 to 27 year olds. This is the prime improvement period, and of course the best of them will sustain that toward 30,31 years old (injury permitting). The game is so unrelentingly demanding from both a physical perspective and in respect to consistent mental application, that it is remarkably rare to find players who stand up consistently from the moment they step foot on the AFL ground, avoid the second year blues, and become basically indispensable within 30 games.....Joel Selwood, Cyril Rioli.... Having seen Stefan Martin show all the attributes of a quality player and athlete from his first year where he was a stalwart of the backline, I started to have doubts about the wisdom of his reinvention over the past 2 seasons. This season so far shows the level of foresight and patience the coaching brains must have, because undoubtedly the reinvention is working. I have little doubt at all that he will convert fully and become a marking gun in the forward line as well. Nathan Jones is an interesting case, because he has been a first choice player since he donned his redlegs. The tendency is to therefore think he is older or more 'mature' than he is. Yes, he has played a lot of games, but he is only just entering his prime window now, and to me it is clear he will continue to improve. And he is great club talisman. Ricky Petterd is the perfect example because he has played too few games due to injury, and is just finding his versatility...again, he will improve. Lynden Dunn's window is opening wider also, and lets hope he really jumps through it. Matthew Bate.....unsure. He is unable to compete in the air, and I instinctively feel this may be a career problem. Austin Wonaeamirri, see Ricky Petterd....just needs games. Cale Morton is also interesting. The coaches obviously think he is a vital and ongoing part of our improvement....there is no other explanation for using him in the Brisbane game with no match fitness. Whilst that didn't work, and I felt he was unfairly thrown to the Lions (oops), he is a quick study, and will show us some mercurial footy this season I'm sure. I wonder however about his essential potential. He is a light-bodied receiver, and must develop his physicality (and I'm not just talking about his physique)in order to develop his versatility. As an overarching view, what clubs are after now is players to mould over a 4 or 5 year period into 'all-ground' players. Height determines their best 'position' more than any other physical attribute, but essentially every club wants a team full of Brendon Goddards, with a couple of 200cm lumps thrown in. When I look at the MFC approach over the Dean Bailey period, this seems like their prime purpose. And we will see some of the results this year. Over the next few years, and as a consequence, I feel sure the team will become a 'unit', develop an identity in its culture, playing style, and game plan (I hate that term). The germ of this will be, as you say, the maturing middle agers.

The Dunn decision was in fact equally ridiculous, but from the other end of the interpretation spectrum. You are however, completely misguided on the Martin decision : the ball was in dispute at the marking contest. Martin had two choices....wait and hope for the ump to award the mark, during which time he would be caught holding the ball if in fact it wasn't awarded, or continue the play as if there is no mark, whereby he snapped for goal. It is RIDICULOUS that the umpire saw his playing on as a reaction to being awarded the mark, it was a reaction to NOT being awarded the mark, or at least covering that possiblity. I'd hate to have to explain the woeful umpiring of this to a newby to the game.

The Stefan Martin mark in the last quarter, and subsequent 'advantage' call when he snapped for goal, when he had no idea whether the mark had been awarded, is a very worrying part of current umpiring. I was frankly embarrassed for our game that the umpires seem to have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how to implement this new interpretation. Imagine us 3 points down in the last 10 seconds of the grand final, and that occur!!!! Thoughts?

WHAT?!!!!!!!!! 'It is widely considered around the traps'.... it is widely considered that comment is meaningless waffle!

I was in fact commenting JUST on his decision making and foot skills. His long bomb goals are merely a bonus. I was thinking more about his passing into to the forward fifty, lace out, and onto the nipple of Brad Green, largely. The weakest aspects of his game are in fact his overhead marking and ability to contest the overhead mark....considered by comparison to Trengove, or Bennell, or Tapscott for example, and his handballing is just ok. Possibly his greatest problem however, and I'll be interested to see if it ever improves, is his inability to garner free kicks. For mine, this is a key talent in the A grade midfielders. I think I could count on one hand the free kicks he was given last year. Compare this to the 'head-ducking' brigade of Sam Mitchell (who is also very talented at dropping the pill at the opportune moment), and Daniel Rich, and it's a problem. Jones' 'bullocking' vigour is to blame for this, but at least he's not getting pinged for holding it these days. Thus, he is not an 'elite' midfielder by any means, but more and more he becomes one of the first guys I would pick each week.

Strange things, opinions. I saw all but 3 games early last year, and I rate Jones' decision making as top 5 on our list, and his 40m plus foot disposal as second only to Aaron Davey. Am I less objective than you?

Likewise

Nooooooo! Nathan Jones underrated? Well sit me down and spin me round! You'd never imagine that from reading some people here. They know who they are, and as judges of midfield attributes, I MIGHT just give more credence to a premiership winning coach with a particular talent for constructing a class midfield.

Totally agree with this reply.....I continue to be staggered by the blind lack of insight from some posters....

Dandeeman, some of us are wasting the skin on our fingertips, by posting in defence of Nathan Jones. Why don't we just give up, roll over, and finally accept that his 27 disposal, 81% effectiveness, contested ball winning, superior goal assisting, leadership showing game yesterday was a wild and over-imagined figment of our rose-tinted Jonesy addled brains. He is a C-grader at best, rubbish with his decision making and disposal, and probably should see out his career massaging the feet of those better than him.

Oops, I guess I shouldn't have tweeted the comment to Beamer last night!

'was easily our best mid today'..... if I were Brent Moloney and saw that comment, I'd be numb with disbelief, and probably start questioning whether I was in fact invisible....ridiculous hyperbole.

And the player he is now most reminiscent of.......yes, one Jimmy Stynes.

6. Moloney...great game again, and with Jonesy, massive work rate. 5. Jones....along with Beamer, positioned us to get back in, and then win the game. 4. Martin...hugely satisfying consolidation of his coming of age...love his work. 3. Jamar...good rucking and good around the ground...taps occasionally too predictable. 2. Rivers...faultless and inspiring, but against a lesser forward line. 1. Jurrah...still wondering what he might do when he REALLY finds his mojo!