DeeSpencer

they aren't not mutually exclusive things. At this stage if Dunn, Frawley and McDonald stay fit then Pedersen will stay in reserve

I suppose a positive is that it sounds a routine surgery and an injury that can be rehabbed pretty well. I wonder if it's related to the ankle he did late last year? Either way he hasn't been in main training so better to try and sort it now. Dunn looks the biggest winner. That third tall spot is his now. Other defenders have to step up. Might be an opportunity for Georgiou to show what he can do in the nab challenge

This thread got bumped because of Jake King. I really don't want to go down the LFL debate path again but you've just claimed that objectification of women is demeaning without much clarification. So are you therefor saying we need to remove all aspects of sexuality in human existence less it demean people? .

Haha. Listen I think King is a fool to be hanging out with Mitchell. And defying Richmond isn't smart. But at the end of the day it's his decision and largely his reputation at stake if something goes wrong. The club has warned him. And in a free society it means King can go hang out with him. But how stupid is Dwayne Russel. Does he not understand what outlaw bikie gangs do? It doesn't matter how good a bloke you are if you are a smart bloke you don't hang out with outlaw bikies. Dwanye Russel makes Jake King look smart.

Just thought the same thing. Not that skinny, not that raw. Wouldn't think he'd play a lot but then I thought you know he's fast and if he's hard and competitive then he might just be a chance at some stage. Main thing is he's on the track training so I hope he gets some nab challenge time.

Obviously we can't exactly brag about ours but a lot of saints fans would like to know about this Ross Lyon development program. I think a few of them would feel Ross is great at developing the best 22 but no so young players. As for Michie I think it's rational for the level of expectation to be on similar levels to Kent or Evans. There's a lot to like and a lot of reasons to be cautious. So cautious optimism is the best theory but that's ok. I'm really hoping he's fit and on the park for nab challenge and round 1 so we can see him play

Plus chris Dawes. But it's a year where we got a good balance of something for now and something for later. All depends of Toumpas, Kent and Barry. Whilst it might not happen we do have legitimate belief in Viney and Hogan as future stars. The Geelong dynasty was built on 15 or so gun players drafted/traded in a period between 1999 and 2002 I think. Scarlett, Mooney, Harley, Chapman, Bartel, Ablett, Ling, Corey, Enright, Mackie, Kelly. The saints good run really centered around Hayes, Ball, Montagna, Dal Santo, Riewoldt and Kosi all coming around the same time. No doubt that a crop of champions brought in together can be built around. So far we haven't turned top picks in to anything like elite players though so challenge is on for Roos. Hogan and Viney will be impressive if we can stuff them up. And there's still Watts, Trengove, Tyson, Toumpas and Salem after that!

As for the forward line watching Hogan and Dawes today they look fit and ready to go. Dawes did some marking stuff with Kent post his running and then got Miller to kick him a few high balls to grab before goal kicking. I think it's already been mentioned he's only a week or so til back doing footy stuff and it looks that way. Same with Hogan. I get the feeling that if we were in season and Hogan jarred his knee in a game that he would be playing this weekend or next at worst. Clark's harder to judge. There's no obvious sign of any problem with him but he does seem to be on a more restricted program than others. Byrnes is back in main training. Blease is training very well. JKH the same. Tapscott was in main training and is doing a fair amount of work in rehab. Howe is going really well. Come round 1 right now it looks like we will have at least Spencer to ruck and then Hogan, Dawes, Howe and take your pick of a few options for the smalls spot. What we don't have is the second ruck/key forward spot sorted yet. There's still lots of time but Clark, Fitzy, Jamar and Gawn all seem a while away. But that's not the end of the world. We can make do with Pedersen or use Dawes or Hogan as that back up. It's one spot in 22 and if we lose round 1 it's not much of an excuse.

Got there at about 10am to find 5 distinct groups: Absent: Viney and Garland Rehab (on the multi purpose oval) all running, all looking reasonable: Hogan, Clark, Fitzy, Riley, Dawes, Tapscott, Kent, Jamar, Matt Jones Remedial kicking: 25, 8, 13, 50, 44, 26, 18, 39, 42. Doing a drill that involves facing sideways then turning, shuffling feet and kicking to a target 25m away. Seems a clever drill to practice a quick decision and kick to a stationary target. They then paired up in same coloured vests and practice kicking to leads. Spencer and Westrupp a fair bit of work, but mostly drop punts and nothing horrendous as a group Marking: Watts, Evans and JKH doing a drill that involves using your body to bump into a guy on a bag before taking the mark. All about controlling the body to go at a defender without going too hard. Byrnes and Blease doing some work as a pair. Small defenders (Terlich, Strauss, Clisby etc) were doing a drill where they led out 10m at 2 kickers who in quick succession kicked footies to them. It had a focus on quick and sure hands that attacking defenders need when put under the pump. The rest of the guys practicing quick handballs to get to open space. Like a midfield group exciting clearances Then Grimes, Nicho, Spencer, Michie, Byrnes and McKenzie had done enough for the day After that all besides the rehab did some simple lane work starting with tackling, the various handball drills. Really basic stuff like picking it off the deck and criss cross handball. But I like it. It's traditional training for a reason, it emphasises the fundamentals done well are vital. Good spirit and voice from the lads. From there it expanded in to different ball movement drills. A triangle set up with a group in the goal square and one on either flank practiced moving the ball around. Kick in to a target then fast flowing handballs until a man is clear out in space and moving on. An emphasis on getting to open space and on following up to the next group. By that time quite a few more had dropped out of training and were practicing goal kicking after a light jog for others. The rehab group, then joined by some who had dropped off started some handball games on the sideline. The initial one was where everyone gets a footy in hand and someone introduces an extra footy which means whoever has to catch that has to then handball his footy away and so on and so forth. Really fun stuff for the players and they got a couple of circles together and had a mini comp. Clark and Watts some of the winners. At one stage Kent (i think) suggested when you stuff up and get knocked out of the group you get pelted with a footy but Clark just simply said none of that with a presence that tells me he's respected. Good leadership. Anyway main group training rolled out with more on the sidelines doing handball drills or sitting in the sun than participating. Even Grimes, Spencer, Michie etc who left 30 minutes before came back. After a while Roos noticed that they weren't doing much so hastily called them in to observe the forward line ball movement drill that was starting on the far wing. That could've happened 20 minutes earlier and players divided in to positional groups and maybe even coached (by spare coaches or senior players) on what was happening but oh well. Usually when guys finish up they go back to AAMI so it was strange seeing them just milling around waiting for the rest. Main group finished around 11 and my overall impression was it was a bit of a middling session. It seems the players are nearing fitness levels that the staff are happy with so there wasn't flogging on the track and instead there were lots of managed loads. It also seems that Roos is happy to keep patiently teaching fundamentals and clear drills. I also got a sense it was a bit of a Wednesday at this time of year session ie. the pressure might be on for Mondays and Fridays as the bigger work load days and it's not yet time for physical pressure drills that risk injury. Bernie Vince impressed, as did Strauss and Blease doing the full session. JKH just finds a way to keep getting touches of the footy at training, he's like Jones and Cross in that regard. Salem did most of the session and looks good without there been too much to see. Harmes and Hunt the same. Hunt is athletic with his movement. Harmes seems busy as well. Georgiou moves ok.

Because it's obviously been working so well? I don't go the AGM because I'm not too interested in hearing sugar coated statements or listening to members ask ridiculous questions. I'd argue that unless you plan on changing something with the club by having some kind of influence then there's not a lot of benefit of getting worried about what they do or don't tell you. Also what information do you want that hasn't been made available. Football wise there's not a lot that isn't public knowledge about where Roos is taking us. Off field it's Jackson doing the same

Quite simply Trengove puts his head over the ball, his body on the line and tackles. Trengove was also pretty good in 2010 and 2011, he's just struggled a lot the last couple of years. Even his second half to 2013 wasn't too bad (same could be said of Watts' end of the year which was more promising). The expectation of Watts either being or becoming a legitimate gun key forward in the Riewoldt, Franklin or any other mold died down pretty quickly. What we have wanted to see from him is using his skills and speed regardless of what position he's played in and having a red hot crack. The expectations on Salem are decreased for a couple of reasons. The first being that we traded down the draft to get Salem and Tyson as a package instead of pick 2 and 20 so the heat is off him. The second being Jesse Hogan. The expectations on Hogan's first year of AFL even outweigh those on Watts. Of course a skinny kid completing year 12 and only playing a few VFL games is much different to a big man child who's played a year of VFL and dominated. But we should temper our expectations on Hogan as well.

Maybe what I'd say to Watts is that you've got 6 weeks almost guaranteed in the side playing majority of time on a wing. In that time we just want to see attack on the ball, tackling and getting to the right spots defensively. Anything else is a bonus. If he can do that then I'd say to him you've got 4 weeks in the team to keep doing that and to make sure you are having some kind of impact on the game in regards to disposals (which he should be able to do anyway). By the time that is up Watts theoretically would've played almost half a season in the same spot and be starting to establish himself. Only after that happens are we likely to see any improvement from a guy who is usually shuffled around. If he can't master the basics of physicality and defensive work in 6 weeks and in 10 weeks he can't find the footy then I'd drop him back to VFL and get him to work on it all their for a while. But Roos' methods are usually to give guys time at the top level with simple things to achieve and then watch them flourish. I remember Lewis Jetta took about 10 weeks to kick his first goal but Roos stuck by him. Even Josh Kennedy's first month or so as a swan wasn't all too flash as he was a bit of a plodder and not really influencing games but by the end of the year he was nearly a premier mid of the comp.

But remember Kap probably has the best O line in football as well as the 3 quality receiving options in Crabtree, Boldin and Davis. Any above average QB has tremendous success with that talent around him and the 49ers defense IF (and it's a big if) they aren't playing Seattle in Seattle! For Seattle to win the superbowl they are going to have to run the ball on the Broncos which the Pats showed today is incredibly hard. I don't see Seattle getting enough offense unless Lynch gets over 100 rushing. Then their defense will have to get enough pressure on Manning. For the talk of their dominant secondary with Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas it wont matter because Manning will find mismatches on back up corners and linebackers, he simply has too many weapons. It's going to have to be the front 4 of Seattle stopping the run and putting pressure on Manning. My tip is low scoring and very close and one of the QB's will get a final drive to either cement the legacy (in Peyton) or make one for themselves. Could be a bit similar to the 2008 SB between New England and NYG.

Agree. That Hawks game I think was played in the wet and was a mix of skill and hardness and we didn't come out on top but we showed a lot. A lot more than anything in 2011 even though we belted some bad teams in 2011. My biggest reality in 2010 was that we had a game plan and we used it to our advantage. We didn't do forward pressure particularly well, we weren't a strong clearance side, but we had an AA ruckman who helped in that area and we had a seriously underrated backline who held their own. After that it was a matter of finding space and using the ball well enough to get to crafty forwards (Jurrah and Green leading the way). We had so much run and energy against Sydney that we made them look old, slow and stupid. Perhaps the strangest thing about that day in 2010. Morton v Goodes head to head and Morton coming out probably on top. We had Bartram, Garland and Frawley as the lock down defenders but I think the 2010 form of Macdonald, Bruce and Rivers as a unit across half back was really underrated. We had experienced players who picked off anything in the air and rebounded (despite shonky kicking) with confidence. Hopefully this year with maybe Tommy McDonald, Grimes and Terlich we can get back to that intercepting and ball winning half back line. Oh I've got a feeling that Hawthorn are the side that we need to beat to announce our rebuild is finally on track (or over). Ever since we completely trounced them at the G in about 2005 with Aaron Davey rubbing Campbell Brown's face in the dirt they've beaten us senseless. We made them look like a bunch of kids when we were flat track bullies and ever since they've made us look like amateurs. That game in 2010 was as close as we got to competing with them. There's plenty of teams we are due a win against (Carl, Coll, Geel, North and even St Kilda) but there's something about Hawthorn for me.

As a bears fan I'm thinking Zimmer is a good hire who's defense can become the best of a bad bunch in the NFC North and then with a running game you can control games and be a reasonable team. Or that's what I was thinking until you hired Norval as OC!!! Chasing the franchise QB always seems to be the plan but with 2 years coming up playing outdoors I wonder if you aren't better off sticking with Cassell who I think can be ok. Use the first round pick on the best talent available and build a defense and the rest of the offense around ball control and run. Draft a QB in the second or third round when you aren't overspending and let them develop at whatever pace they need. That's the tactic that worked well for the two teams in the NFC teams playing today as well as for the Eagles.

Obviously the Seahawks defense is just amazing. And looking at that game I really thought it was like get to 20 points and you'll probably win kind of game. The Seahawks found a way to make amazing plays whilst the 49ers didn't. But I think a lot of it is on Kap. The first intercept was a shocker (then again Wilson had the fumble on the first play) and the end zone INT just wasn't quite a good enough throw. I get NFL players are a different bread of athletes than AFL or practically any other but I think Kap needs to ditch the headphones and casual clothes and shape up a bit. He just doesn't look smart enough to be a clutch QB and if you don't look it you might not be it. That's harsh on a guy who's a great talent but perception can be reality. At the same time Richard Sherman. Not sure if I hate you or love you but I'd gladly have you playing half back flank for the dees. Oh and Manning or a receiver will likely win the MVP if the Broncs win the superbowl but my tip for the real difference maker is Terrence Knighton the big DT from Denver. He was largely responsible for shutting out the Pats running game and he had a big sack. Plus his nickname is Pot Roast!

Marsh not had a shot? He's 30, played 7 tests. Has a shield average of only 35 and only 31 this year. Plenty of off field troubles as well. Marsh is selected because they want him to succeed not because he's earned it or shown any signs that he will. I really hope they play Doolan or Faulkner ahead of Marsh. The one positive of this squad at least is that by including 2 back up number 3's and a buck up all rounder the writing is well and truly on the wall for Watson. The Chris Rogers dream wont last for ever either I guess so within 12 months we could need an opener (?Marsh), number 3 (Doolan/Hughes) and have Faulkner in at 6. The other surprise is that they aren't taking Wade on this tour. They seem keen to avoid the question of who the next keeper is even though I think Wade has done enough to still have that spot.

And the year before! But I do feel he'll be developed the right way this time. Put in a position he can succeed in and given strict instruction by Roos. I hope we all give him some patience and I hope Watts at least has a crack. If he's doing that then he'll get our respect

He's insured a brothel with a company that has specific business. It's hard to feel sorry for either side. The real winners are the lawyers.

His approach to preseason matches may change with a young team in his first year compared to a veteran team that he'd be coaching over the course of many years though. I expect the first game to be irrelevant. It's way too far out from round 1 and has a gap to the next fixtures but I'm expecting the second nab challenge and the game at Casey to be treated seriously and attacked full on. If we get blown away by Geelong and Hawthorn then I wont have much confidence in to round 1. Our players need to know they can compete in those practice matches other wise they wont have the confidence to win round 1 anyway.

Some of the fine reporting at the time. Working the tanking investigation in to a story that's a nothing story in the first place. And newspaper wonder why no one reads them anymore.

Its a serious question. What's our combined record in the first five games since 2007? Probably about 5 wins 30 losses?Or our first round record since then? 1 draw? Our new additions are still mainly kids (Hogan, Tyson, Michie, Salem). Our ready to go additions are Cross (hardly a game winner) and the decent but hardly remarkable Vince. Not to mention no matter how good a coach Roos is we were 2-20 last year with a percentage of 54. I don't think Roos himself expects big changes right away regarding wins. In that means he'll focus on performance, getting that percentage above 80 and then worry about away wins and wins at Etihad. I expect an improvement and a percentage of 75 if not 85 but I can't predict when that will translate to wins. Not to mention that the expansion teams, Carlton and West Coast are 4 of the more unpredictable teams in the comp.

Report from Matty Thompson aka [censored] Dees swelter through training

Put on twitter today along with another couple from Ayrton Wolley from channel 9 who will have the story about it on 9 news tonight so I presume it will be today

Amen. Now if I new what an AHG was I'd go out and buy one. So training was definitely at Casey. I do wonder if any brave souls made it there. And if they could see anything through the blinding heat besides a lot of players sweating.