Radar Detector

Don't worry, we'll just cut all our duds AND all our developing young players who haven't immediately dominated games and just replace them with A-graders from the magical A-grade player tree. Makes sense, right?

If I recall, Jack Viney, when interviewed pre draft, said given the choice he would take Toumpas over Wines. And Wines was his best mate.

He will be on modest money and wouldn't be worth much in a trade. Has had much of his early career ruined by injury but works hard and has a great attitude. I'm more than happy for the FD to show some confidence in him at this stage - confidence is clearly what he is most lacking.

This playing group and the list in the recent years preceding it will forever bear the stigma of being the group that killed this club. Even if we somehow manage to navigate a way out of this mess in the next 3-5years the damage has been done. We will have lost an entire generation of new supporters to Hawthorn, Geelong etc which will create financial issues that are almost impossible to address. If any ordinary business performed this poorly for half as long it would have folded or been taken over by now. But that makes "real" businesses accountable for their actions. Our football club trades in a false economy where the business continues to survive and players continue to get paid market rates despite the obvious lack of care and effort they display in their roles. the situation is so dire now that the AFL has to either dramatically intervene to break the cycle and make the club genuinely viable or cut it off and let it go to the wall. Either would probably be better for supporters than the current purgatory. This club is slowly killing our will to go on. And we are the passionate ones. The fair weather fans left long ago.

I think top 4 will be Vince, Jones, Viney and TMac but not sure the order. Hogan fifth. Remainder of the top 10 I think will include Watts, Cross, Garlett and lottery for the last 2 spots from Brayshaw, Gawn, Vanders, Jetta and Tyson.

At Collingwood, H was never a strong defensive player, he was a runner with the ability to break lines albeit he has always had a question mark over his skills. He rarely, if ever, has consistently lowered his eyes (much in the same way Nate Jones did for much of his early career) and so has been prone to turnovers. He is basically the same player at Melbourne, it is just that his lack of defensive accountability is more exposed due to high numbers of d50 entries and our skills make it harder for him to receive and run the lines effectively. Dean Terlich has a top 3 B&F finish in the past three years btw. So I hope others subscribe to your logic at trade time.

H is really no better or worse than he was at Collingwood and he is now in an inferior side. Surprised people think his performance would be any different from what we've seen.

I take back my earlier comment, this umpiring is incredibly one sided

Honestly, if anyone here thinks the umpiring is what deserves comment... Forest and trees people!

Poor option by Jones

Hate losing to North but the middle two quarters of that game were some of the most exciting footy I've seen us play since Bailey was in charge. The young guys drove our performance today and there is plenty to like about the list we are slowly compiling. Finally looks like rebuild 3.0 might be the real deal.

Horrible turnover by Garland

Waite?

Skills are a big issue, no doubt. But the forwards shouldn't be given special exemption from effort if service is sub par. Garlett was the exception and managed a game high 9 tackles.Edit: incoherence

Lol the Bummers are on the same number of wins and almost identical % across the season so far. This is a genuine 50/50 so if we lose I will be disappointed as always but hardly shocked. We haven't magically become a gun side as evidenced by our 9 goal loss last week.

Lucifer's Hero, this is not a comment directed at you in particular but I feel like the moral police on this site have been out in full voice more so than ever this year. Much of the tone frustrates me as the excessive PC I believe perpetuates a culture whereby people don't have to take responsibility for their own poor behaviour. This has permeated a number of threads recently and I find it particularly annoying.

It is ridiculous to suggest that no middle ground exists and that you're either a party boy or a god botherer. I suspect that in the AFL as in general society, most people are neither extreme. I think your point is an unfounded assumption based on a personal bias. I suspect that strong leaders of any club who demand the best from themselves physically would frown upon party boy teammates irrespective of religious beliefs or lack thereof. It may be the case that Ablett and co. frown upon the actions of their teammates but, just maybe, this is in their capacity as professional athletes who are disappointed that their teammates aren't quite so professional in their approach and are letting the team down.

Slight hint of revisionism there Adam?

That's a completely different discussion. Those players weren't being compared to ANB, Bail or McKenzie. You were suggesting that they are ahead of Vince who is both a leading possession winner and best tagger.

If you think that Brayshaw and even Viney are ahead of Vince on current output you are delusional and mistaking potential for performance.

And we have played all 3 of them in the first eight rounds. Against other opposition we have gone 3-2 with two interstate losses to GWS and Adelaide who also sit inside the 8 (and who we were leading comprehensively early in each game). Sometimes we lose the forest for the trees but we are trending up. Players and team are improving but it is incremental and we still lack the midfield to compete with the biggest boys. As a side note, at this stage last year we were 2-6 having played only one team that ended up finishing in the top 8.

Has definitely gone to another level this year. I still have my heart in my mouth when he has the ball but he actually hasn't turned it over much and is a colossus as a defender. What I love about him is his sheer will to be the best. By the end of this year he may very well be just that - best defender in the comp and best player at the club.

AFL website stats page.22 games, 385 disposals (17.5 per game), 80% efficiency. That disposal efficiency is elite.

Unlike Toumpas, Salem and Petracca? Fact: Watts was chased by other clubs prior to signing his last contract but stayed unlike many others who chased the money and ran. Jones and Dunn are a couple of others who bucked that trend, I struggle to think of many more. Fact: Only 11 players in the comp had both higher disposal efficiency and more possessions than Watts in 2014. Fact: Watts is lining up for his 100th game this week making him the 10th current player on the list to reach the milestone. Question Watts' hardness all you want (although I maintain that is improving) however I would suggest that the claim that he is one of our most loyal and skilful players is on the money...

Completely disagree. The only reason this thread and the numerous others on the topic get any airtime at all is for precisely that reason. If he were taken at pick 30-odd I doubt people would question his spot in the side nearly as much. Sure there are parts of his game obviously lacking but he is top four at the club for marks and goals, top 10 for disposals and, last week aside, is our best and most creative user of the footy. He isn't an aggressive animal but his appetite for the contest and his work rate have clearly improved as well. He is far from our worst despite the constant attention which he must surely wonder what he ever did to deserve.