jnrmac

We just do not have any players other than Jones who attack the footy and get their own pill. There are also some players who just demand the footy by giving second efforts and positioning themselves in the rights spots. We don't have any of em. If we have another year like this we will be out of business.

Thanks for your efforts as usual KC

Disagree. If it is a common thread that binds them and motivates them then it works, They have punched above their weight for a number of years when everyone has written them off so something must work..

I actually think we have done OK this year in the sense that the main injuries were impact rather than fitness strains..

Not me... I brought up Gutnick in reference to our drafting and the AFL sanctions. Gutnick as far as I am concerned was not a genuine supporter of our club and sought much more from his position of president. He's certainly not the first to do it but he did a lot of damage to our club. The problem when you talk about factions though is that when there are disgruntled people around that can cause real damage to a club (as opposed to an old fool like me on a forum) is that you get the tanking debate re-igniting etc. Opinion here is not likely to stoke the fires I would have thought.

Oh sorry didn't realise he was a mid!!

Yep and how do they get it?? Mids. We could have Jesus H Christ there himself at FF and we would still struggle with our I50s which are amongst the lowest in the league. As well our delivery is bottom of the class.

Agreed. RPFC you have your view on leadership but I respectfully suggest they are off the mark. Carltank is not a united club, nor are they are premiership contender. As for Judd he is about one thing - Judd.

No no no nono no nono no please no. DOn't need him too expensive and not that good. Mids Mids Mids Mids Mids Mids MidsMids Mids Mids Mids Mids are what we need,

Racism?? How is that racist you politically correct moron. Get off your high and might horse. And if you are referring to being Jewish I could tell you its not a race its a religion that happens to think they are the 'chosen people'. Can't get any more racist than that. Gutnick was a disgrace. Stepped into the club solely for his own purpose and benefit. Did not put all of his money that he pledged. Refused to pay $300k to the club when they desperately needed it. And caused us no end of angst for two drafts. As well we had at least 4 players suffer the ignominy of tax audits which are not pleasant. Your type make me sick. If you want to hear some real stories about Gutnick I could give them to you first-hand. I would hazard a guess to say you have never had to deal with him in business. I hold an extremely low opinion of him if you haven't gathered..

See, I have a completely different view of Judd. I don't think he is a leaders bootlace. Yes he leads with on field performance but Tom Harley would not have stood by while Fev was going apeshit at the Brownlow. Nick maxwell would not have chained himself to an 18yo Levi Casaboult who was so shiitefaced that his Dad had to be called to be picked up. Brett Kirk would not have tolerated a drug fuelled culture that Judd oversaw at West Coke. Judd continually says 'I don't want to be a role model' or in my words 'Just pay me a fortune and p*** off out of my life'. He is anything but a leader. I think that those who point to a single gun player like that saying everyone will follow is missing the point entirely. Carlton does not play like a true team under Judd IMO. So its more than having a great player. Its about having a leadership group that demands excellence and commitment.

Rivers is a heart and soul player. Has some deficiencies but has a huge amount of experience, has shown flexibility this year, is remarkably resilient given his early injury troubles and tries his guts out every week. Would very much like him to stay.

Clark would hopefully be able to lure some disgruntled Lions to the Dees...

No worries. Re Jolly - aside from is pot shot at tanking I fully understand why he left and is probably peed off. Daniher was giving him 6-8mins a game!! It was appalling. His love for Jeff White was crazy in terms of development for other players. To his credit he has 2 flags and has been at two strong clubs so I would say he pretty well qualified to talk about it. I get why people want to persist with Col but I am over him and have a strong view that he should be weeded out after 8 (!) years. Otherwise the culture will never have a chance to change. Its a bit like a CEo coming in and clearing out management of a company. Good people sometimes go but if change is to happen often a clean sweep is needed first. Thats why I like the grimes/trengove captaincy.

I too am surprised (sort of) by your reaction. The Pies have issues and how the have dealt with them is instructive. Every club has them. Culture is not a buzz word. It is the fabric of an organisation, club etc. It is fact that Green, Davey, Bruce and Moloney had shockers after their Bluey win. It is fact that our club leaders have been next to useless for a long time. About the only guy on-field who had the capacity to stand up when we were being belted was Junior and we got rid of him. I never said Green didn't have courage but it is true he was seen as a FIGJAM in his early years at the club and he was never really embraced as a leader. tyr as he might he didn't get there. Do you disagree? I can only assume you have never been a leader in your chosen field or never experienced first hand quality leadership. 12 CEO's in 10 years demonstrates we have been less than harmonious off field. And on-field who have we had since Neitz that could truly be seen as a leader? Brent Moloney has tried to be a leader (with his Warnambool camps and on field ra ra) but IMO he doesn't have it. It seems clear that Grimes from everything I have heard is a true leader. Time will tell. I surely hope so. As the article says, sometimes its hard to hear thing you don't want to hear, Sat Con. If you believe we have real leadership at the Club over the past 6 years then I can convince you otherwise. Nor should I try. I think it is bleedingly obvious.

It's my take away - see the bracketed comments?

Darren Jolly explains why the Swans have an amazing culture, why the Pies are building one and (my take away) why Colin Sylvia will never make it. Our leadership at the club has been so poor for many years. 12 CEOs in 10 years, fractured facilities, poor on-field leaders, low demand for excellence and senior players who have one good year to win a Bluey and then effectively stop playing (yes Brad, Aaron and Brent). A lot of it has been said in parts on other threads but this is worth reading as Jolls has seen first hand a crap club (us) and two amazing clubs. Makes me think that the decision to appoint Trengove and Grimes as Captains in an inspired one albeit we are having big difficulties in year 1 with personal form and on-field performance. Our culture needs overhauling from the ground up and a clean break with the past mediocrity was absolutely necessary. Interesting take on Stewart Maxwell as Captain and the culture that followed from O'Keefe, Goodes and of course Kirk. Worth reading. As for Colin Sylvia those that read this and still think Col will make it should re-read article. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hard-lessons-learnt-as-teams-create-a-culture-20120814-246tq.html

Blease looks as though he is finally getting some of the required level of fitness and defensive skills (altho didn't see weekend game). With well documented injuries he has taken time. Gys is in pretty much the same boat I reckon. Has skills and this wonderful capacity that doesn't exist in many of our other players - ability to win his own ball often. But has carried a lot of injury and doesn't have an AFL body. I have high hopes for both and wouldn't call either of them a wasted pick at this point. Cook I am on the fence. I have seen him play and think he has the smarts and skills. Clearly doesn't have an AFL body yet. SO why play him?? Why not stick him in the gym and say put on 10kg of muscle. Some players can't put on weight when the aerobic training starts so might as well send him to the gym.

Wow what an ignorant post. So why not split it into two. One for players nominated before round 8 who can win the award. And others nominated after who can feel good about themselves but have virtually no chance of winning. Breathtaking statement about players not being eligible to win but at least they can feel good. My Godfather. This bit takes the cake "If a player hasn't been nominated before round 8 then they haven't been doing enough to be outstanding". What if they are injured? What if they are young age? If you know anything about the history of this award its all about potential. The fact that it has morphed over the years to a best first year player award has meant it has changed completely. And not for the better I say. Its now like a Brownlow for 1st year players. Simply, every player who is nominated should be eligible. The fact that they have no chance is a disgrace.

History says otherwise. Only two players have ever won after being nominated after round 8.

I am a huge critic of the umpires BUT I will say that in their defence the speed of the game compared to VFL is massive. This means they are invariably in the wrong position most of the time. In the VFL this is significantly less so. But the goons at HQ have stuffed our game big time. It's basketball on steroids and we are the poorer because of it.

Glad its sinking in. Plenty of players have performed well in the Bluey without playing full seasons. Nowhere did I say he was expected to win it. His performances are well below par for a so called 'elite' player. It makes me ill the way people on this site refer to him as elite. He is so far from it its a joke. I think you are the one with rocks. He is lazy, selfish and has a shocking work ethic. The world is full of talented people with the same probelm. Its why some people become stars and others never get there. Not only will Sylvia never get there with that attitude but it has and will continue to tarnish the culture of the club we want to create. We will be better off without him

This injury argument is complete [censored]. Go and look at the stats and games played. He has played plenty of games. The club doesn't rate him. Check out he B&F results or don't you like facts?? A fit Sylvia is NOT our best player. A fit Sylvia with a footy brain and some dedicated commitment COULD be our best polayer. He is far from it, You are right about he last statement. We haven't. And won't. Sylvia will get a first round pick from a finals contender. Zero doubt about that.

Stupid award these days. A player nominated beyond round 8 has virtually zero hope of winning. It used to be all about potential now its about what a player does for the whole year. How can someone nominated in Rd 23 for his first game win it?? Its impossible. Another AFL bastardised joke. Nonetheless Well done Sam for taking your medicine, working hard on your game and putting in a great few weeks. A tough pre-season awaits but you have the ability to make it big time if you work hard.

Might have saved Travis Johnstone...