Johnny Karate

I think I'm a little bit guilty of being a harsh marker but it's been a pretty terrible year & not too many players have covered themselves in glory. That said it is tough to play back or forward given the awful state of the midfield.

I agree totally as an MFC supporter. Slightly ot but I feel sorry for the fans of the VFL clubs - it seems like they are either getting taken over (Preston) or taken over, abandoned & left to rot (Coburg & Bendigo). If the Burgers field a stand alone team next year I'll buy a membership but I currently have no interest in my suburban team being a Richmond patsy.

Correct weight. The 20 year Casey agreement is important. Can't we just have the best of both worlds & 'Rinehart' them? I don't care if we play as the Scorps or Dees as long as we're getting development into our kids & playing the same structures as the AFL team.

Really like your thoughts old. Agree with pretty much all that you've said.

Part One: Jones to McKenzie Nathan Jones - has been a shining light in a very dark year for the Demons to date. He is the only midfielder averaging over 20 disposals. His decision making, finishing and ability to run & spread have all improved. It is pleasing to see Jones develop into a nicely rounded midfielder given he was on the fringes of the team in 2010. It is a testament to his hard work that he has turned his career around. He isn't the complete package like a Judd, Ablett or Pendlebury. However there's no reason he can't be a very good player on that rung below the champion midfielders - think Sewell, S Thompson, Boyd or James McDonald. At 24 with 100+ games under his belt he is entering his prime & leading from the front. Rating: 8/10 - busts his nut & is leading from the front. Clint Bartram - is another player who seems to enjoy Neeld's structure. Bartram is a brave player who rarely loses 50/50 contests & has the tough job of minding the opposition's best small forwards. Occasionally his direct opponent has got off the chain, ditto for the rest of the defenders when the Demons' third world midfield has been ritually smashed. Bartram seems to be playing to his limitations more in that the nightmarish switch stuff ups from 2011 seem to have faded from his game. That left foot checkside goal against the Saints was outrageous & a highlight of the season to date. Ultimately Clint Bartram is a jobber & may well fall out of the side in coming years due to natural attrition, not to mention a bung knee. However, if fit, he offers the ability to play a difficult role, courage & leadership something the Dees really lack across the board so if fit his short to medium term future should be secure. Rating: 5/10 - sadly gone for the year, but played his role well nonetheless. Jack Watts - is finding his feet in the backline & was given the tag by Mick Malthouse as 'best rebounder in the competition' (N.B. The same MM who said Jarod Harbrow was winning the Brownlow in R7 of 2010!). Nonetheless, Watts has been able to make the most of his exquisite skill & ability to read the play as a rebounding defender. It just wasn't working in the forward line for Jack due to a lack of conviction in his approach to aerial contests. He could do with more confidence & another pre-season but it is looking increasingly unlikely that Melbourne will get the forward they hoped for when his name was first called in November 2008. Watts is too talented to not be a very good player at AFL level for a long time but it looks as though it will be as a rebounding defender at this stage. Rating 4/10 before his move to the backline it was a 2. Matthew Bate - has fallen out of favor with the selectors again after playing most of the first 7 rounds. It isn't entirely his own fault as the use of him as sub was pretty bizarre given that Bate has never been an impact player. Mark Neeld was evidently keen to keep him on the list, presumably due to a lack of mature bodied midfielders at the Dees. It just hasn't worked for Bate whose career has been at the crossroads for some time. Bate cut his teeth as a good lead up half forward even finishing third in the B&F in that role. However, the evolution of the press has killed that role & Bate has lacked the adaptability to adjust with the game. He lacks pace & critically the competitive mongrel to rip the ball out of a stoppage ala Jones or Magner (his hands are quite good when it's all going well for him though). Matty Bate is a footballer from a bygone era and has had a better career than most players who are drafted. Rating 3/10 - probably finished at the Dees. Might get a shot elsewhere on basement wages but he just isn't good enough at this level. Jamie Bennell - this is another chicken & egg. Has Bennell struggled because he hasn't really had a defined role in the team? Or - is it his own fault for not making one his own? Bennell is looking like a player devoid of confidence. He has never had a fierce appetite for the contest nor a real defensive work ethic, you suspect his endurance fitness probably isn't up to scratch either given his inability to at least accumulate some cheap ball throughout the course of his career. These issues mean that he can't get confidence through laying a few tackles, getting body contact or chip scabbing off half back. It's a real shame with Bennell because Melbourne are screaming out for a decent crumbing forward. He has good enough attributes & still has time to make that position his own but it's running out fast! Rating: 1/10 - a real stinker of a year & just doesn't look up to AFL standard. James Frawley - has battled admirably against some of the comps best forwards receiving a million forward 50 entries per game in 2012. He hasn't got back to that level of 2010 AA Fullback but is still providing reasonably good output on a weekly basis. The fact he is playing on the Buddy Franklin types instead of the Luke Breusts of this world should help both Chippa's & the Dees' development. Rating 4/10 - has battled, but gets marked harshly as an AA fullback. Jack Trengove - in what has been an annus horribilis for Melbourne, so too it has been for the first year skipper. A reasonable assumption is that Trengove is carrying a groin injury. He shows all the classic signs of OP - poor acceleration, can't kick over a jam tin & seems to have lost his vertical leap altogether. However, if you take Misson, Neeld & co at face value Trengove is not injured. The only possible explanations in this scenario are that a combination of a heavier pre-season workload, late pre-season injury, increased opposition attention, adjusting to the new coach/roles & initial burden of captaincy has hurt JT in 2012. He'll fight his way out of this slump & will stay in the side as he is showing enough endeavor but hopefully JT can turn it around in the back end of 2012. Rating 3/10 - probably generous but gets a bonus point for effort Cale Morton - a perennial whipping boy. Morton is one of the most frustrating players on the Dees list. The good Cale is good at working into space & spreading from a contest, his endurance is an asset & he is a nice size with the agility to play a number of roles on different opponents. Some days you look at him & think 'this guy could be a better version of Cam Bruce or our answer to Goddard, Gibbs or Mackie off a HBF'. The bad Cale then pops up and simultaneously causes a howler of a turnover, squibs a contest & then displays the type of body language that epitomizes defeat. Such is the gap between his best and worst he is pretty much a week to week proposition but he just needs to lift his intensity, endeavor & be a bit more determined in games instead of looking so defeated. He can still be a good player for this club. Rating: 4/10 - Does some good things, but the howlers & the shirking really hurt his stocks. Mitch Clark - has just about been recruit of the season. He should be lauded for his attitude and intensity. Clark has really embraced the club & has justified his rather large salary to date. Often playing a lone hand up forward, Clark has clunked marks, crashed packs, kicked tough goals & worked his tail off defensively. He is on target for 50 goals in 2012 which would be an outstanding effort in a side that really struggles with F50 entries. Clark could play in front a little bit more but it should be noted that he is often double & triple teamed. He is looming as Melbourne's best recruit since Jeff White. Rating 9/10 - busts his nut, week in, week out. If it weren't for his massive pay packet you'd feel sorry for him. His attitude & intensity are a joy to watch. Bravo Mitch! Colin Sylvia - another 'crowd favorite'. Like Watts & Morton, Sylvia's laconic style is a major source of frustration for Dees fans. An interrupted pre-season & adjusting to his role under Neeld have no doubt set him back. However, what really tests the most patient of fans is when he is seen smiling & laughing on the field after he & the team have turned another awful performance. I doubt Neeld will suffer Sylvia's antics much longer & he'll most likely be shopped around at the end of the season. Sylvia has the ability & attributes to be a quality finisher, the second half of 2012 will be career defining. Rating: 1/10 - career worst form & really should be having more of an impact (or at least looking like he cares) interrupted pre season notwithstanding. Jordie McKenzie - another of a very select bunch of Melbourne players to come away with his stocks enhanced in the first half of 2012. He isn't an elite user of the ball, lacks acceleration & does make poor decisions on occasion. However, he does do an excellent job of tagging, he isn't afraid to put his head over the ball & has a very good tackling technique which makes his contribution to the team invaluable. Tagging the competitions best midfielders week in, week out when your own midfield gets smashed isn't easy & Jordie Mac does an admirable job. Rating: 6/10 - another who busts his nut & is rarely beaten.

I never accused anybody of slagging off Watts - I just don't want my thread to be another gazzilion page tome discussing the pros & cons of Jack Watts. If that's your opinion, fine. Theres no reason why Jack Watts can't do that in the future but there are reasons he can't do it now. Our midfield is so crap that he is having to pick the ball up on the last line because of the depth of F50 entries - it isn't entirely by design. As the midfield improves he'll be getting those kicks on the HB line & wing, playing essentially the same role. Watts doesn't offer much at the moment up the ground because he isn't a natural competitor in aerial or ground contests nor does he posses the workrate or desire to work into space & demand the football. Ergo he's a passive footballer. In my opinion the backline is the best place for him because he can sit back, read the play, intercept & distribute. It's the place where he can get hands on the footy & build his confidence whilst playing a key role in the team's structures. Davey stagnated & wanted to move out of the forwardline, he gave up chasing towards the end & wanted to be an offensive midfielder. He was found wanting in the midfield & let taggers get under his skin. He didn't have the mental or physical hardness to compete up the field so was moved to the backline.

By that logic Bailey>Viney>Neeld? I've had an about face though. Of course we should get Ratten! Forget the last 5 matches of 2004 where our midfield got smashed, he'd shrewdly teed up his first gig at Nar Nar Goon 4ths. I would worry too much about Carlton's 1 finals win under him either. I mean look at their midfield - Chris Judd, Marc Murphy, Kade Simpson & co aren't a patch on the Melbourne class of 04. Give me Godfrey, Ward & Johnstone any day of the week!

Can we get Scott Thompson back too? Ratten's 1 year stint as midfield coach resulting in demigod status around here never ceases to crack me up. Along with Brian Royal is the antichrist. Maybe we should invent a time machine, go back to 2000 & get that guy who turned our midfield from 14th to 2nd in a year with the loss of Todd Viney! Yeah let's get that guy - What was his name? Brian something?

All of those players have things in common & it isn't because their coaches have played them out of position. They were sent to the backline because they didn't play well in the positions they were drafted for. They were too... It starts with an 's' and ends with an 'oft'. I don't want this to become another Jack Watts shitfight but I don't think he'll be the forward we hoped for when we selected him St pick 1. I agree with BH that he should play in the backline for the forseeable future (quite possibly the rest of his career). I dispute that he's getting cheap kicks in the backline & believe he can be developed into an elite rebounding defender.

I think Watts has to play in the backline at the moment as it is the only place where the club can currently maximize his potential. His rebounding work has been of good standard & I wouldn't say he is getting cheap kicks as he is using the ball well & getting it to a team mate more often than not. Agree with the rest of your post - small defenders are a real issue - Nicholson's kicking is pretty poor, ditto Bail but they both have the raw pace to go toe to toe with a Rioli type. I think Strauss gets first crack (even though he's more of a med sized def Imo). Alternatively, maybe we give it to Sammy Blease & try to make him a more rounded player?

@ RR - Gold! Max Gawn, $cully & Chris Mew all in the same room & the shittest one becomes a millionaire. Life isn't fair sometimes.

If it was one or the other Cloke FA won't cost us anything in the draft. Boak would be nice too but ultimately don't think either will come to us.

I guess they'll probably have first crack up forward & agree on the backline's performance sans Frawley, you couldn't drop him though. It's interesting that all of Garland, Rivers, Sellar, T McDonald & Watts were recruited as forwards but are now playing well as defenders.

One of the more interesting points out of what has been a dismal season so far has been how the backline has progressed. Others may disagree but I would've thought that our 'best back 6' prior to Round 1 would've looked something like this: B: Bartram - Frawley - Garland HB: Blease - Rivers - Grimes The backline is one area where we've had pretty good cover over the past 5 years or so but because of some players' inability to perform in other positions are we now approaching defender overload? Jack Grimes has moved into the midfield, Garland and more recently Rivers have pushed forward. While Sellar, Watts & T McDonald have looked at home down back. Here is a run down of current/potential defenders on the Melbourne list KPD: Frawley, Garland, Rivers, T McDonald, Sellar, Davis Rebounding defenders: Watts, Morton, Blease, Grimes, Strauss, Tapscott Negating smalls: Bartram, Nicholson, Bail, Macdonald (a stretch I know), Evans, Tynan So I ask my fellow 'landers what is our best D50 structure? Who'll make it? Who can/should be moved up the ground? Should we trade out some defenders? It's a good problem to have (oh for the day when we have similar forward/midfield issues!). FWIW I generally like the structure of 3 versatile KPD, 2 rebounders & 1 small negator. I'd lock in Frawley as FB, Watts off a HB but I think the rest of the spots are up for grabs. I also think we should have a horses for courses approach. I.e. No point playing Sellar if the opposition has no more than one genuine KPF.

It's a shame. Not the classiest player, but he busts his nut for us & plays a key role in the team as midget forward tamer. Hopefully somebody can step up & fill that role well because presently we've got nothing!

On current form I can only see 3 wins against the new teams. That said the incurable optimist in me feels the only game where there'll be no chance at all is Freo in Perth. Whatever the outcome, I hope we give every game a crack for the second half of 2012.

B: Josh Gibson - Heath Grundy - Ryan Crowley HB: Greg Broughton - Luke McPharlin - Bob Murphy C: Brett Deledio - Jobe Watson - Scott Selwood HF: Steele Sidebottom - Nick Riewoldt - Patrick Dangerfield F: Jack Darling - Lance Franklin - Lewis Jetta R: Ivan Maric - Scott Pendlebury - Gary Ablett I: Jonathan Giles - Trent Cotchin - Kieren Jack - Dane Swan

Want. Stringer. Bad.

We've already won on many fronts. There paying through the nose for a B grade player at best which allows us to keep the players we want plus Mitch Clark plus two extra picks in the top 25. Trengove, Clark, Viney & Stringer > daylight > Scully. GWS look good atm but it wouldn't surprise if the weight of expectation gets to them over the next few years if natural attrition doesn't. Any success they do have will be in a time when Sheedy & probably Scully can't claim any credit for it. By ramping up publicity for the game Sheedy will be dragging a few extra thousand through the gates, lining our clubs coffers for the long term. Finally, dare I say it - a loss wouldn't be the worst outcome, it could lead to us getting Viney at pick 25, an absolute steal (losses in 2012 don't mean that much to me). That said I expect we'll win & win well. Everythings coming up Milhouse. Sheeds the wino & GWS are the gift that keeps on giving. Heads we win, tails they lose. The glass is half full, if it seems half empty it's just because we've filled it up with our own wizz & Sheeds has drank the other half & paid $6m for the privelidge.

Sheedy jumped the shark years ago - you have to begrudgingly respect his ability to stir the pot. Him getting knocked back for head coaching position clearly still burns which is more amusing than his half assed jibes, you'd think a 4 time premiership coach wouldn't be so emotionally insecure. He's just another GW$ellout - he used to be all about sticking up for the fans of the game, he even dubbed AD 'Vlad'. Funny how when nobody else would take him in, he bent over & became the Fat Controller's [censored]. As for the other fellow $6m over 6 years for some kid with a bung knee, who can't even play inside, forced to play as a tagger, isn't even good enough to be captain & has DE that is sub 50% - shrewd recruiting there, cobber! :thumbsup:

Yes, my gut tells me Richmond are very much still in the frame. Stay tuned!

That makes absolutely no sense. Hangon-esque

Everybody makes mistakes - we did in the sense of Scully. Watts v Naitanui doesn't look great admittedly & I wish everybody would stop proclaiming they can & could read the tea leaves with Darling & Cook when both were drafted 5 minutes ago. You can cry about it or try & believe that all outcomes will lead to us having good players. Some of you sad old farts need the week off.

Fe Fi Fo Fum Can't you hear the Giants run They don't want to play us anymore It only takes one Jack to beat them And we have 4!

Ah ok, 14-15 wins in 2015 - it seems a million miles away but it isn't impossible, plenty of teams have turned it around from where we are now.