Johnny Karate

Fe Fi Fo Fum Can't you hear the Giants run They don't want to play us anymore It only takes one Jack to beat them And we have 4!

Ah ok, 14-15 wins in 2015 - it seems a million miles away but it isn't impossible, plenty of teams have turned it around from where we are now.

Reality says that we currently suck on the field, I have no issue with that. But the club is in a far better position off the field than it has been for most of the past 48 years. Back in the black, a rekindled relationship with the MCC, settled non-shared training bases & a beefed up footy department spend. I'm under no illusion that much more hard work is required but we have important foundations in place that just haven't been there in the past not to mention that the draft gives us a better crack at better players rather than our pox former recruiting zone. I strongly doubt we'll win 70% of our games til 2015 but it won't mean we're in dire straights like you've stated previously.

Garbage. We will only fold if our membership base turns up their toes & caves into defeatism. It goes without saying that we need to improve on the field but the socialist equalization policies of the AFL & cyclical nature of the competition gives us the opportunity to turn it around. The above post is nothing but mindless negativity & shameful defeatism.

Thinking of the merger makes me feel physically ill. I have respect for Ian Ridley - he truly loved the club & saw no alternative. I also sympathize with members who voted 'yes' out of being conned by a campaign of dirty tricks but those who stood & fought are the true heroes of this club. The 'yes' vote is a nasty stain on our history.

OT but did anybody see what happened behind the play with him in Q2 yesterday? He went down (HFF in front of the AFL members) & came off the ground with a blood nose (I suspect a cheap shot). Not defending his performance but interested if anyone saw what happened?

Crap thread. Should be reviewed by the Thread RP.

Cale Morton does some silly things on the football field but a lot of our so called supporters are complete & utter dimwits. I have no problem with someone getting upset at a poor piece of play but the vitriol that comes to certain players particularly Morton is not on IMO. Last week there were two knobs in their 50's behind me getting stuck into Tom McDonald a 19 year old who's played about ten games. Morton definitely has limitations in his game but I think a lot of is to do with confidence, the guy is terrified of making a mistake so he runs up & down on the spot & chooses the 3rd option, turns it over & gets booed of the ground by the old farts in the MCC who have no clue. Rinse & repeat.

"Merge with North seems the only solution." I agree - it's hard to argue with idiots who will only drag you down to their level & beat you with experience. I have no problem with anyone who wants to critique the team or the coaches' performance but some of the crap & defeatism that spews forth from so called supporters is mind boggling! I'd hate to be in the trenches with you!

I am well aware of that. However, didn't Ball enter the National Draft giving every team the opportunity to recruit him? We didn't. We were scared off by his management/Collingwood. We would've been well within our rights to draft him.

Absolutely. It's clear that decisions cannot be made retrospectively or in hindsight - which is why I haven't named names or blamed those who have made them. However, those that make such decisions are put in such positions for their foresight and live & die in those positions by the success of how those decisions play out. I feel that if the outcome of a certain decision turns bad then it was the wrong decision. My initial post was referring to the OP's query of 'why we are where we are' & I gave my 2c.

Where did I blame anybody in my post? I understand why certain decisions were taken at those times but it doesn't change the fact that they have had adverse outcomes for the club. Or is everything peachy?

Because in hindsight we've pulled the wrong rein several times over the past few years. In my opinion these include: - Not getting our financial house in order. - Not sacking Daniher after 2003 & then not backing him up with FD spending or not committing to genuine renewal. - Appointing Bailey as coach/not supporting him with FD spending - Selecting Jack Watts with pick 1 - Selecting Tom Scully with pick 1 (this thankfully can still be rectified with compo picks) - Letting go & the handling of letting go senior players in particular James McDonald. - Not bringing in outside leadership (we probably could've had a crack at Luke Ball) These & many other decisions are the reasons we are where we are. I fully expect to be flamed for this & that's fine. I supported a lot of these decisions at the time & can admit I am wrong.

Cloke & Ablett were reasons why the law was changed - timing sucks hey? As an aside Marc Murphy was available for the Lions for a 3rd rounder but no dealed them. From what I've heard JV is worth a pick between 3-5 anyway & if I understand the Scully compo correctly we're looking at two picks in the top 5 (one possibly used on Viney) & pick 11. It's hardly wrist slitting kind of stuff.

Out: everyone except Mitch Clark In: a time machine to grab the following 'stars' B: Nettlebeck - Carroll - Bode HB: Bell - Ferguson - Collins C: Obst - Fisher - Kowal HF: M Febey - Molan - Pickett F: Hunter - Clark - Rogers R: Irving - Turley - Valenti I: Ottens - Hopgood - Armstrong - Grgic Sadly that team would beat our current lot of spudleys.

Hawthorn were crap last night, missing two of their best players and yet they could've easily wiped us by more than 100 points. They looked nothing like a premiership team but there was a gaping chasm between the desire of the two sides.

7 is poor also. Rohan Connolly wrote a great article about it last week. Although you have wonder if the Age & the Hun journos are just bagging out one anothers affiliates. Dribble M - you know what you're getting & the footy show hasn't been about footy for years - the NRL Show is the same. It annoys me that the 7 coverage is just so bad - just goes to prove they only forked out $1 billion for the rights to win a pissing contest with channel 9 where you win by simply denying your competitor the rights & don't really give a stuff about the product itself.

Neeld rightly or wrongly won't have the same latitude as Bailey given to him by Melbourne supporters. He's going to have to deal with dissatisfaction from not only his tenure but lingering bitterness from the Bailey fiasco. We've won 31 out of our last 125 including 1 from our last 13. It's understandable that the natives are restless.

Who should be there: Frawley, Trengove, Clark, Grimes, Garland, Howe. Who could be there: Viney The rest is up in the air IMO

If you look at the better teams over the past 5 years they've generally brought ruckmen in: Geelong: Ottens, Stephenson Hawthorn: Hale, Skipper, McCauley Collingwood: Jolly, Leigh Brown St Kilda: King, Gardiner Sydney: Ball, Jolly, Mumford, Seaby, Everitt Mitch Clark could end up as our ruckman in the medium to long term. It isnt beyond the realms of possibiity that we could get value from a decent state league ruckman and then develop our own. Jamar has been average since 2011 - I'm not going to lose any sleep if he leaves but as stated before I hope he stays.

I don't particularly want either to go as losing senior players has probably stunted our development somewhat in the past two years. However, we do have plenty of ruck back up and we do have plenty of average midfielders - so I wont be crying if either or both leave... Ho, hum...

Not really, but if the alternative is to rock back and forth in the foetal position muttering: "we stuffed it before, we'll stuff it again" - I'd rather be optimistic that we have the whip hand in this draft. I hope Tim Lamb and his team have the same attitude.

It isn't ideal but don't we get the draft selection afterwards anyway? (Scully compensation) I don't like what GWS & GC are doing (if they're actually going to do it) but it won't end the club. From what I understand JV is top 5/10 quality anyway, the prospect of having him plus two other first rounders on the list in what is supposed to be a very deep draft has me salivating!

Thanks HT, A pertinent thread that is what this one is trying to get at.... Feel free to merge if necessary! I think the new leadership group announced in February was probably in recognition of the need to set a new standard and culture. However, in the first two matches - the head dropping and poor body language has still been evident, along with not shepherding, jumping all over one another etc. It really needs to be addressed, probably with an iron fist at the selection table.

I can't argue with that. I guess the main point I had in mind when starting this thread was to get past the handwringing and revisionist history espoused by the media and supporters on forums. All of the things that have happened in the past are just that and for better or worse some of these events are yet to fully play out. Since about 1994 when I first started following the club closely, it generally hasn't mattered who has been coach, captain, president, recruitment officer or even playing on the field... Melbourne players have generally dropped their heads and not really worked hard enough to protect and honour their team mates. I refuse to believe we have had a collective, consecutive bunch of idiots coaching the club during that time. It is a matter of public record that Daniher thought we were soft when he took over in late 1997 - while he gets most of the blame for that issue never being fully resolved, it wasn't he who was out there dropping his head, not tackling and not playing with intensity on game day. It is ultimately the responsibilty of the playing group on the day to stand up and do the club proud - whether its Jack Watts, Ben Holland, Craig Ellis, Brent Grgic, Andrew Obst or Chris Sullivan wearing the jumper!