layzie

Yeah in a way there is some fortune needed and very fine margins between 'acceptable' and 'unacceptable'. Had Max have kicked that one against Sydney and we snuck home or if we managed to grit out an ugly win over the Pies then would we even be mentioning loading? 2-1 or even 1-2 would have masked over the debate a bit more than 0-3. It's unfortunate, I'm sure none of the coaches/fitness guys wanted it this way but if they're sticking to something because they firmly believe in it then I have no choice but to back them. They've proven themselves right before.

I guess you wouldn't pronounce soften 'sof-ten'

I think both are acceptable aren't they? I had an Oxford dictionary once that had both pronunciations.

Think Jack needs to go back to bed.

This is brilliant.

Yeah would take him too, either would help!

Ouch Jack

Gonna be quite the show tonight I reckon Binman, looking forward to it!

Circled in calendar.

Cam Pedersen in

That thread is definitely something I'd start. Missed opportunity 😛

Great result! Qualifying for a World Cup is always a plus and doing so when there is a clear talent gap right now is even better. I'm not the biggest fan of Arnie but you have to admit his teams are always ambitious and willing to die for the cause. If we're offered 4 points in that group right now I don't think any of us would turn it down, let the chips fall where they may!

Exactly, just get a bit physical Sam. We're going to have a few guys being asked to do things outside of their regular job description. I know crashing a pack isn't necessarily in his wheelhouse but he might need to start doing things like this, get out of the comfort zone and make defenders know you're there.

I don't disagree entirely with that statement. I can see how our skills would be affected by fatigue and energy being sapped but if this is the case then where do you draw the line? We often hear so much about 'flirting with form' in the junk time games of the year and how detrimental it can be to rest players. Is it possible that they see this as a better method to battle harden our players so when we get to the pointy end we are able to just bash through like we did against GC, WC, Adel, the rest last year no matter where or when? I can see it being a plausibile reason but at the same time I'd see it as a slight shame. Max kicking that one late against the Swans could have been enough for the win, Trac fumbling in the goalsquare really felt deflating in a game where goals were at a premium. To have come out of this period with 1 win 2 losses would have been a lot better than zip and 3 in my view considering the tough remaining draw. I'm much more in the camp of loading existing, I've now just got my questions about it and I sincerely hope the trade off will be worth it.

Like those real up and under kicks? Could raise some uncertaintly for their defenders and anything that creates chaos up forward is a good thing haha.

In these times there can sometimes be blessings in disguise. A smaller forward line leading up and making options is something I'd certainly like to see more of, need to create a bit more chaos in the 50 again.

Carlton have managed without Pittonet reasonably well, Grundy has been out since Anzac Day and the Pies just won 4 on the trot. It is possible, it might look different but it is possible to work around this. I know Max is a special player and we will miss his presence no doubt but this is where our coaches and strategists will earn their bucks. Have to give them a chance.

Well that's just it, sometimes from these moments you're forced to shift to a new setup that catches teams by surprise with it's unpredictability. Remember when Cam Pedersen had to stand in for Max around 5 years ago? For the short term the opposition never knew what to expect at bounces and it actually benefited us.

I'm more than happy to accept loading as a key factor, what I don't want it to take away from is our ability to play the game of football. This means gathering a ball cleanly, handballing to someone 3 metres away, making good decisions etc. I am glad to see Binman presenting facts on loading and being unequivocal in his stance on this, I respect that a lot. What I don't want is people (and yes they are in the minority) using loading as an excuse for missing a shot from 15 out, fumbling in the goal square and stuff like that. Yes we might be loading but I still want to win the games if we have a chance to because otherwise scrap loading just send a reserves team out there.

Next four are Bris, Adel, Geel, Port. Not ideal but not the scariest jobs for Jackson ruck wise.

Good god I want to be sick. After waiting a few seconds I still want to be sick but we have to face reality. Luke Jackson the time is now and let's make sure he gets some support in someone who will compete like their life depends on it for the next month or so.

My thoughts are very much along these lines Gonzo, we made the ground small and it was intimidating. Teams coughed it up in bad areas and we pounced. It’s my armchair opinion that to cover the loss of May (and even Langdon to an extent as he is limited) we decided sitting back a bit deeper with numbers was the way to go about this, and maybe it was. However it does move away from what the gameplan is built on and it is hard to apply forward pressure when you aren't as high up the field. I hate to bring up a Soccer comparison because I know that not everyone likes it but in the EPL Liverpool went through a very similar things last year when their star Centre Back and leader Virgil Van Dijk went down with an ACL. This guy is akin to Steven May in many ways with his ability to cover territory quickly, strength in contests and also his ability to direct the troops on the field. The other thing with Liverpool is they typically play a high press where a lot of their goals come from the two full backs Alexander Arnold and Robertson who get very high up the field and put in damaging crosses if not scoring themselves. Van Dijk was so quick and able to react quickly that you never worried about pressing too high because he tracked back every time to cut out the danger without fail. When Van Dijk went down things changed dramatically. The two full backs had to sit much deeper than they were used to so they could cover while a few different backup centre backs and even midfielders were trialed through there but either injury prone or not able to offer anywhere near the same output. The different structural shape really did change everything and it ended up being a very average season. The point I’m trying to make here is that while a team should never be relying on just one player and you should be able to cover for them, the loss of that player can sometimes have a real flow on effect structurally with the way you setup territory wise. Which as silly as it sounds can make a team look completely different. In footy a tactic or strategy never works 100% of the time. On one day sitting back and letting them try to pick through us can work absolute wonders and you’re just waiting for the turnover, on Monday it almost seemed as if the Pies were relishing getting their hands on the footy more and getting a head of steam up. Those quick short passes succeeded in shifting our zone just enough to break through and kick the winning score. I also noticed more numbers running forward, which is strange because it goes against the narrative that we’re tired but where I noticed little ‘unrewarded’ running in the second half against Sydney last week I saw often waves of 2 or 3 players regularly. The real shame being that we fumbled relentlessly at those moments and failed to execute, Pies rebounded through the middle and you know the rest. Lastly, I supported the decision to drop Jayden Hunt and Trent Rivers in the last few weeks but possibly we could have used some speed to try and break a line when we had the ball deep in defence and nothing was working? Just brainstorming there but we did look predictable exiting the backline.

Look you're definitely right Binman and between us fans on DL in the know it should be a hot topic of conversation. But I'm hearing so many casual fans using it as an excuse now for our poor performances and expecting things to just spring up again when we deload or whatever. For what it's worth I'd love to hear it in a forum of ex players and commentators. That is precisely where I want to hear it, and i agree that is where it SHOULD be the hot topic rather than from Joe Shmo or random messenger chats from people who know little about what they are actually talking about but is so adamant it's all about loading. So it's more of an annoyance than a gripe with any sort of proper reasoning. I'll also note it's definitely not you that is one of these people Binman, if I could hear more of you and less of the peanut gallery of friends and bozos when it comes to loading I'd be happy. Please write the thesis :)

Very well said. I'm glad we had this discussion and appreciate this response.

Probably Sparrow or Trac.