iv'a worn smith

Obviously that depends on the nature of the criticism and construct of the words used.

In the almanac of the VFL/AFL, in relative terms, it was not all that long ago that if you were Catholic, Protestant or Jewish, depending on the club, you would have never have been selected. It was not a written policy of the respective football clubs, but the faceless men behind the scenes applied the silent policy with rigour and sometimes vehemence. Fast forward to the 21st century and Australia, whether I or anybody else on here likes it or not, is signatory to a number of United Nations Conventions. Not the least of these Conventions is to not discriminate or vilify on the basis of race, nationality, religion, ethnicity and if one belongs to a 'particular social group'. Such Conventions are prosecutable under international law. Some may think the Law is an ass, but it is not simply political correctness, when Governments of both persuasions subscribe to the same Conventions. Once again, people who engage in debate - which is fair enough - then resort to the use of throw away lines and epithets, such as "political correctness", generally do so because their arguments are bereft of rationality and logic. In short, if being politically correct actually means challenging the status quo and peoples' innate prejudices then I am politically correct and happy to be so. I am glad we have men of principal in this world who fight for what is intrinsically right and fight while a very noisy cohort try to metaphorically shout them down. As Edmund Burke; an Irish Politician and Statesman, considered by many to be the father of modern conservatism said: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Here endeth the lesson.

Such a good post Doc. Those that coin the phrase PC are in fact PC themselves. Anything that challenges accepted norms is labelled as PC, simply because, in the absence of rational debate, people resort to the use of epithet and derision. As I keep saying, people in grass houses shouldn't get stoned.

Very True and something I should have acknowledged in my post. Social media may eventually damn all of us. That is why I don't subscribe to twitter or Facebook. As for Instagram, I have no idea what that is.

Odds on Chipper turning up to the B&F night?

It was not all that long ago, mad Monday's were the players' domain and the media had an unwritten law not to report on the goings on. Nowadays, nothing is out of bounds for the media pack and they will lust after anything they think will get them headlines. Let's not be mistaken here, this is only about headlines; nothing else. As ill-advised as the antic in question was, it was simply to young men having fun, in what should have been a 'private party'. But sorry guys, you are now public property, by dent of the fact that you are AFL footballers. No 'private' life anymore. Learn from it and move on. The rest of the world will. Prince Harry was once shot by the paparazzi wearing a Nazi uniform - in far worst taste in my view - but he remains a Prince of the realm just the same. Meantime, the likes of Kyle Sandilands gets away with the most salacious of broadcasting styles and makes a motzah out of it.

Not saying he wouldn't OD................., sadly. Just commenting on the Alves and Wells scenario. If Nugget leaves, he will probably want to. Unlike Stan Alves at the time.

Difference is, Stan didn't want to go, but was part of the Ditterich deal. He got his flag, sure, but he was gutted to be pushed out the MFC door. Wells got his, but remains an ardent supporter, committed and strong benefactor of the MFC. I doubt we will see history repeat itself these days.

Once again, our problems are far more ingrained than having a list turnover cure our ills.

We all need to vent from time to time, but did your spewing forth require its own topic? There are other topics on here right now that are adequately addressing what you have expressed.

Some sanity at last!!!!!!

He has probably taken on the toughest gig in the AFL. He is under no illusions as to just how tough the job is. He always said - from the get go - he was in for 2 years with an option for a third. He has just recently exercised that option in our favour. Not sure how you come to the conclusion you have. It is time to stop bashing coaches, that have had to deal with the spasticity that has been the MFC for so long.

And replaced with and through what AFL sanctioned process?

Agreed. Nice to see some semblance of positivity on here today, while understanding the pall that hung over (hungover??) us yesterday.

OD, you might just have to explain to some of the younger ones on here, just what the 'sweep' is.

In essence, I tend to agree with you. But what is worrying is that yesterday, we were beaten pointless by a young and inexperienced team - albeit laden with talent - that had its bench decimated by injuries, which obviously severely restricted its rotations, and entered the game with several of what it would consider to be its top tier players, not even available for selection. Our problems go far deeper than just the list we have.

At the moment, we just can't kick ............... find a target with both hand and foot. Basic skills with which you would expect any AFL listed player to have some proficiency...... never mind the apparent inability to even the odds at a contest.

Given the task at hand, he probably deserves more. It is not Paul Roos that is not earning his money, but there are those recently departed from the club, that should pay some of theirs back.

Given the task at hand, he probably deserves more. It is not Paul Roos that is not earning his money, but there are those recently departed from the club, that should pay some of theirs back.

And from the pool which will be available, replace them with what?

Maybe it's just another case of tanking; eh Caro? As with most on here, yesterday broke my heart. Not all that long ago, there was a topic on here which, understandably, forecast that we had 2 winnable games left. Well, we've lost them both. We debate the affect of '186' on the club (the players really), and throw in Dean Bailey's name as part of the problem - at least some do. Again, I won't divulge my sources, but the malaise that led to the culmination which saw the '186' debacle was never DB's fault, but rather falls squarely on the shoulders of those who lurked in the shadows of the back room, who saw their positions within the MFC as far greater than their tenures should or could have been. One in particular, thought his name would be etched in the famous history of the MFC for all the right reasons. Nothing further from the truth. The way DB was summarily 'executed' has had an affect on this playing group which will never be measured in real terms. It was for this very reason, that despite however honourable Mark Neeld's intentions may have been, he was simply the wrong man for the job at the time. We forget the advances that DB made and it was clear that while still lacking in the skill department, the players respected and played for him Paul Roos himself observed, while still coach of the Swans, just how impressive we were and may become under DB, after flogging the Swans by 73 points at the 'G in 2010. How far we have fallen since then. No-one can even guess the influence that the legacy of DB has had on this group and the affects of his bungled dismissal and ultimate passing - RIP Dean. The reality is, however disgruntled we may feel after such an insipid and inept display yesterday, against a fledging team, we cannot slash and burn the playing list. There is simply not the available playing stocks out there, to replenish what we might jettison, in one off season. While, by no means, do I think the current playing list can take giant steps forward and I do accept that there are gaping holes on our list, talent wise, the problems which are endemic at the MFC go way beyond the football department and have existed for at least 10 years, in the modern era. I remain confident that Paul Roos is the right man to mould, shape and influence any MFC playing list to finally recognise what 'team' actually means. Of more concern is whether the rot inside the place is beyond redemption, even for a person of the undoubted talents of Peter Jackson. While we thresh out our passions on here, it is a patent fact that footy these days is a business. As passionate as I am, I understand the reality that in today's business world, you cannot float a perennial basket case forever. That is our real challenge. A challenge which involves replacing the very fabric of what we now call the MFC. If we don't, some other 'business' will steal away what loyal 'customers' we have remaining and attract what could have been our future 'customers'. As always, I live in hope that the MFC will rise above this and finally triumph.

The defence for most media commentators, when making their so-called, informed comment, is that they are paid to make the prognostications that they do. As the 19th Century British Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli opined, there are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics. Acknowledging that not only media gurus cite statistics when analysing footy teams' performances, but footy clubs themselves also use them, to measure the teams' KPI's- geez I hate jargon. However, in my view, the mistake most media commentators make when analysing stats and then comparing that data between footy teams is that the basic - and flawed assumption - is the metaphoric playing field that all 18 clubs compete upon is even. We can hypothesise as much as we like about who we should trade, and as a result what additional draft picks we might secure, but in reality, what confronts the MFC is that the very bones of our footy club have been so severely fractured by inept administration, warring footy departments and yes, bad draft selections, as well as some badly timed delistings of senior and might I add loved players. In terms of ill-advised draft selections, we are not Robinson Crusoe there, But, even though it may be through its own historical bad management, the MFC have not competed, in the football sense, on a level playing field for quite some time now. Our more recent history shows that there has been almost a universal reliance on high draft picks and the occasional "coup" of experienced and highly paid recruits to cure all our ills. As our record shows, this was a foolhardy and ill-advised strategy - with some, but very few exceptions. Unlike the so-called successful and powerful clubs, who made their own 'level playing field", we have failed to develop players from within, not heeded the very human needs of bonding and belonging to a unified cause and we have totally disregarded what creates that sense of 'club'. It is clear - as has been well canvassed on here - that Jackson and Roos have been brought in with a view to not only overhaul the list, but to recalibrate the very culture of the footy club. But such an overhaul is never successful by simply outing the old and bringing in the new. To me it seems that their priority is to bring the MFC back on to that "level playing field" again, so that statistical comparisons will actually have some true meaning in the future. Regardless of who we draft, trade or de-list at the end of the this season, it will be meaningless if we in any way hamper Roos and Jackson in their pursuit of the task that they see as patently evident. I am sure, in no small way, this is what influenced Roos to exercise his option and take the third year extension on his contract. He is under no illusions as to the size of the task that confronts him. I have faith that Roos has the qualities and skills that will enable him to get the job at hand done. My only fear is that the damage done by past decisions is so irretrievable, that it may be too late. Of course time will tell Go Dees.

Caro needs to understand that people in grass houses shouldn't get stoned and she can't continually goose the cook that laid the golden egg. Mind you, she always has had a tendency to hatchet her chickens before they're counted

Biff, over to you. I'll meet you at the tavern bar on Saturday. You know, the one that bridges between the smokers stand and the Olympic stand

Sorry, I would rather go to the snow, drink Sauv. Blanc and eat canapés