H_T

With a different target (lower target - of 420) for the South Africans and more overs & time up the sleeve, I fail to see how the same argument would apply. A different set of circumstances presents itself. I'm sure the 0/29 start off first 14 overs would not have been replicated. This is where the difference of opinion is. You say declaring earlier -- whether it be giving 4 and a half or 5 sessions - would not have made a difference at all to the tactics of Sth Africa in the final innings. I disagree with that, its that simple. If 10 wickets is the issue on that wicket that you say "completely" nullified the sting of the bowlers, wouldn't that be all the more reason to declare earlier and provide more time for your bowlers to strike?; and entice Sth Africa to chase?; hence more risks; hence more chances of wickets; hence a result (win). I believe so RR. I'm no Nathan Carroll RR. Take it Easy Dutchy...

At the end of the day, we might not see eye to eye in this case. Whilst I usually couldn't give a 'continental' about a match played 3 years ago, I will endeavour to paint a clearer picture - if that is possible. Ok. The Aussies set the Sth Africans 491 with 4 sessions remaining. With the likes of Warne , McGrath both world class bowlers - if not the best of their kind in their field of expertise throughout the history of cricket - bowling for the Aussies. Session 1 - Even if the Sth Africans had batted "really well" and managed 0/120 in the last session of Day 4. It still would have left a mammoth total run chase of approx. 371 runs to get on Day 5 with 10 wkts in hand. That is more than 4 runs an over in a TEST against the number 1 cricketing nation in the world. That is nigh impossible IMO - even against a West Indies outfit - if they were Sth Africa's opposition. It's no wonder they went defensive to achieve a draw. The declaration should have come sooner IMO. (HT downs the rest of his beer and says to RR "Its your shout") :D

Of course we hope our club will perform well week in week out, and achieve good things on the field, thats why we support our club, cheer for our club, stick up for our club, dig deep for our club. IMO there is a big difference in being told after being asked do you think melbourne will make finals in '09, that he (Jim) doesn't think so, as compared to "blatantly" saying we definitely will not make the finals. We know the club is currently in a 'quagmire' state, IMO recognising where we are at makes 'us' all the more determined to achieve - not just on field - but achieve in areas of membership, sponsors and supporters.

I recall the declaration. The drinks break before tea was tipped in the commentary box first, then about 20min after drinks. As Hodge got closer to the double hundred it strung out. Ricky would or should of declared when Hodge was about 160. The more this debate has gone on, the more I recall. The lead was approx. 430 at the time. I also recall Mark Taylor and Heals holding back or at least getting their point across that the time was right for a declaration with a lifeless pitch and not much turn.

What can you tell me about Suban, I haven't read up much on him.. I also think that about picks 17,19. I still like Zaharkis. I'd be happy with him at 19. Shoenmakers at 17 for me. I think Sidebottom will go before 17.

Yes agree with everything you say, but when he supposedly said that or what I believe in 'words to that effect', its simply being as honest as how we had performed in '08. That is a side that miraculously won a couple of games that we probably should not have. We also got thumped in many games. We've lost players through retirement, KPP mind you, turned over the list with 7 new players to come in. In '09 we will have a younger inexperienced side still at the start of their learning curve. Now, we can swear until we are black and blue, and debate this until the sun rises, or until Barrack Obama finally takes office.. But if you asked every single AFL supporter, expert, commentator, follower, official, school kid out there. 99% of them would say that Melbourne will not make the finals in 2009. You ask "Why?" They will respond, "Well for a start, look at your list!" - Use both eyes, not just one eye...

Good post. He'd had enough, and walked. I agree. Pretty poor given the club had drafted him and given him a great opportunity. Another kid will be given the same opportunity in less than 2 weeks.

Maybe 45hotgod, a sign of things to come for the onfield apparel??? Jim did state that they didn't want the white, silver for the clash guernsey on Sunday.

Clint, when you get a chance, if you haven't already done so, email the club with your concept. Having read it, alot of those ideas were discussed yesterday in my group. Casey, MCC, brand, etc. They will read it.

Thank-you Rflowering.

Well, I would like to see a transcript or quote word for word of what Stynes said. I believe at this stage, you have taken him well out of context in this thread. That is, until you can back it up CB. Any chance of a quote or link..

This is the type of conversation I usually like with a beer in my hand. I think Rogue best summed it up, that an earlier declaration would of given a lesser target with more overs to face, giving the aussies more of an opportunity to skittle the Sth Africans. An extra 40min to an hour can mean the difference between a draw and a win. About 15 overs or so more to get the remaining wickets. Importantly and not to be forgotten 15 more overs for them to chase down the 420-430. Which is alot easier than 491 with 15 extra overs with the likes of Warne in Perth.

Words to that effect.......hmmm. All I have heard Stynes say is that we could expect more pain on field next year, which is a far cry from, "we won't make the finals next year." That is being realistic, not negative.

I said earlier in the thread, I was in Blue. Can't agree more......coffee on arrival....many were having withdrawal symptoms due to lack of caffiene.. Also if they're going to organise parking.....it comes back to communication....to make sure the bollards are removed from the entrance to gate 6 off Punt Rd near RFC prior to cars arriving...maybe they could use 8:00am on a Sunday as an excuse...lol

Cheers, Nugget. Personally I prefer the "Vee yolke". Not the current wider yolke. What Schwab got from Barrass was the Vee Yolke worn from 1935-1974. Our most successful period.

Who was quoted with the first saying CB?

The [censored] should be banned for life. The tool in the stand that is.

He has to get drafted first. P.S. I would be surprised too Rhino, pleasantly surprised that is. Just remember what happened with Grimes and Round 22.

He thinks we should recognise our heritage. He certainly made a point of it that when the apparel changes from asics to reebok to, etc ,etc. It just changes bit by bit, gradually over time. So, its probably on the to do list.

There is an idea. Good. Certainly the tv idea would be a costly exercise, and yes, resource hungry. Ian Johnson at Ch7 perhaps? Cam Schwab said something so very true yesterday, about "Slippage" in relation to the jumper over time. How it has gradually changed, noting not that it was anyone's particular fault, but from administration to administration, etc the jumper had changed. He wanted to bring the jumper back to a dark red and dark blue - like it used to be - not like the current one which has a purple tinge to it. Much like the signed jumper Ron Barrassi sent him upon appointment to the CEO role.

Of course. Of course. Its all come back now. Who could forget BB's annoyance of lack of response. I hope BB, you brought this up at the Summit yesterday. Entitled, "Communication" or lack there of...lol. Cheers 45h. Hell, I even contributed to factors that influence our juniors as to why they choose certain sports or teams.....yet I couldn't recall.. I wonder what research the club learnt from this. Another idea posed was a "Cool" Brand for marketing. Ie. The Demon. To get kids attention. Another was to start up a footy tv kids program - Junior supporters group. Which Garry Lyon used to host years ago. The MFC to show initiative by hosting it.

Steele Sidebottom has been touted a top 10 pick.

I agree, the declaration should have been called about 40minutes earlier. Even the commentators at the time were voicing their opinions that the Aussies were forcing Sth Africa to shut up shop once they took to the bat. A lead of 420-430 with 1 and 1/2 days play would have made them bat more aggressively on Day 4. Which is what I was alluding to regarding the history of Perth's pitch Rogue. Ie. Not conducive to spinners, not even Warnie.

No problem. :D