rpfc

And now you are unfairly attributing to posters that challenge the criticism of Watts to being 'bashers.' I criticise him, how can you not, but there is reasoned critiques and then there is senseless berating and constant tirades. Don't fool me that there isn't, or that the reason is not drowned out by the berating and the tirades.

Almost forgot about Trengove. What a godsend he would be if we could get him fit and role in the midfield (even better if we could find him a yard of pace). But there is no value to remove the bloke and 'jackaub' posted he was 'part of the problem' whatever that means. Everyone seems to be 'part of the problem' until they are 'part of the solution' if they have been kept around and we start to see more success.

Hypnotise the sh!t out of him, or into him as it were... One thing about the floating - I am certain he has been told that he has just got to be present as a release out the back of contests to kick the ball (as he is almost alone with his skills at the club) but that he is having trouble with the balance of that and hitting the contest when he needs to. That married with the fact he is not naturally inclined to hit contests has led to these poor efforts that we see so blatantly. I still maintain he is far from alone with the number and gall of those poor efforts - it's just his seem to catch the eye more for various reasons.

We need more talented midfielders. The fact that we go about 4 deep in there is what is killing us. Tyson, Vince, and Cross were godsends, and need a few more gifts from Heaven. Salem, Kent and JKH will join those Jones, Viney, Vince, and Tyson at some point but we need established mids to help right now. Otherwise, I fear we will be running on the spot next season. Hogan, Dawes, and Pedersen/Gawn can be moulded into a functioning forward line and our backline has the foundations of solidity if not finesse. It's the middle we need to get more talent and ready made talent.

If he wants to come back into the Demon family, he is more than welcome. This club has seen it fair share of nonsense in the past 50 years and we are a shell of our former self because of it. We hold grudges against our own too easily and for too long. We are not big enough or strong enough to be so damning and insolent. This club will take back Moloney, and Ridley-ites, and Schwab, and Gardner, and McLardy, and Connolly, and anyone else spurned rightly or wrongly. We will take them back because we can't afford not to.

He's in the first year of a three year contract after being convinced by the coach to return to the club. I just don't see Roos giving up on himself more than anything. And Watts has shown more in his first 6 years than Dunn did; so there is always hope that he can show what he has shown - in many quarters and halves and the odd game - over a more consistent period.

Nah, he plays in our team...

I hope that those that want to trade Watts and think Watts would be good in a good team are not the same that want to trade Watts as they think he is a VFL level player - because the two views do not compute.

He is, of course, welcome back to the club if he wishes. That isn't to say he acted with great regard to the club in the lead up to him leaving, nor that the club did the best by him in that period. But he played quite a few games for this club and played well. Well done.

Could just have been a match up thing. Gawn is better as a second ruck, Pedersen better as a forward but if you don't think Pedersen will trouble the Hawks defenders - sending out the bearded lamp post can be a good alternative. I think Pedersen has shown he can be a very good utility with good skills and a great grab. Roos should be able to find him a role for the next couple of years.

Wherever you read that - and I saw it too - it was embellishment of the highest order (it might have been Roos himself?). Tyson was fit and firing for most of PS from our records of training updates, whereas Garland had Ankle surgery in January that saw him see action for the first time on April 22. That's a missed pre-season...

There is no way we are 'resting players, or sending them for surgery, or experimenting, or playing an abundance of youth' (ie. Tanking) this game after what came out of Roos' mouth last week. We are going to absolutely smash GWS. The only thing that will stop it is if the mindset of the blokes running out for the MFC is terrible. So GWS are a chance...

I don't think Roos is the kind to give a flying... Perhaps he is playing his role and we are too hung up on the 4 or 5 efforts a game we deem unacceptable? He draws the eye this kid - I try to watch what is happening around him sometimes as I am fixated on what he is doing and what he isn't doing, as opposed to what those in the MFC jumpers are, and aren't, doing. Frankly, there are terrible efforts from Watts in a sea of terrible efforts from the team as a whole. It's diminishing though, for both Watts and the team. His progress is as slow as the team's really. But it is there. Look at the second half against PA a few weeks ago. I am as frustrated as anybody but I realise where the problems really lie - the team is suffering more from the players we don't have than ones we do. Our midfield doesn't have the cattle and we don't have the depth of good players for the good players we do have to make an impact. I know this post was a bit of a sprawl but there are those that are making Watts out to be the cause of our problems while claiming he is the symptom of our problems. What if he is neither?

Why are we paying a bloke $1.5m a year to then trade away talent? Watts has shown glimpses and Roos should back himself to get more from blokes with talent - it's hard enough getting talent to the club without trading it away for hope.

If you ain't first - you're last.

You don't think Watts works hard? Perhaps you should ask Roos at a presser about the workload that is asked of a HFF in today's game and how much Watts is doing to be in a position to be not kicked to properly in the forward line, to having little help on centre wing, to be pushed off the footy on the HBF. And you are looking for 'indications'? You have already made your mind up on Watts - this smiling flap is just a selective and sideways argument to hang him further.

Is it?

Who's wishing to be cr ap? We just are. Well argued BB.

My god we care too much about what outsiders think of us... You don't need to go elsewhere to hear we are a terrible team - I can tell you that. And you don't need to give a sh!t what others think of the club. You would be making decisions for the wrong reasons if you did them based on what people, who don't care about you, thought about you.

Our problem has not been quantity of changes, but quality. Picking the right players.Using pick 85 isn't the bloody point - getting the first 5 or 6 picks right is! That's how you build a list.

Change for the sake of change. Delist 12 and two years later they are bemoaning the 'clogger' we got with Pick 85.

So if we keep Watts, Roos is accepting the status quo of the club culture? I think Watts will stick around and 2015 will be a lot better for his Demons, I think his output will remain the same, but because the fortunes of the team will increase, the criticism of Watts will wane. Roos backed Pedersen and Jetta and Bail and all have been better. Watts has been better than last year too. Again, it looks like you want to make Watts pay for his 'underperformance' and who else? Why is he sacrificed when others are not? We have plenty of players to blame for the underperformance of the team - least obvious being the players we don't have because of recruiting failures.

I don't play football at a high level but when I or any of my teammates miss a large portion of our pre-season they feel it during the season. To reject the reason that someone is injured and not training while the rest of the comp is flying is obtuse. This is a professional sport - if you are inured on the eve of the season, you are at a disadvantage.

That's your bolded line, not mine, but it may as well be mine. I have already said that I am interested more in how we finish the season with our performance than where we finish. Hawthorm WCE, and NM provide a great test of the mindset that Roos has instilled. Ironically, you are tacitly not including yourself. Read the above, read what we have written and try to comprehend: we do not care about coming last, we care about how we play, who plays well, who does not, and who we target when these 4 games are over. Understand?

It's a good perspective. But the tactics of tanking did not stop in 2009. While we more akin to winning games as a priority - we still got rid of experience, and we still didn't recruit established professionals that could help develop these kids we got in the draft. I have said this many times - tanking is either as narrow as 'telling players to lose' or it is as wide as 'setting your list up to lose' and we were setting up our list to lose from the point Daniher left to the point Neeld took over. Roos comes in and what were the first moves he made? Give a 28 year old a 4 year contract, give a 30 year old a 2 year contract and trade down from a top 2 pick to get a player with 3 years experience, and rescue the career of 27 year old and a 24 year old already at the club. That is how you build (re-build) a list in the AFL.