Swooper1987

Did you watch Nicks presser?

So in your estimation Jackson was a more influential player than Gawn over the entire game. Righto then, just proves we see things differently.

Exactly. Nicks said as much after the game in his presser. I just don't get the chronic underestimation of Gawn's performance on here. Every other club in the competition would kill to have a ruck as dominant as he is. He took one less mark last night than NicNat took in the entire season 2020! That's how good he is. And people harp on about the one or two he might drop occasionally. Just staggering!

Agree entirely. It was a terrible non-decision, but it was no more costly than Fritsch's terrible underground grubber attempt when Tracc was on, or Lever's ridiculous push in the back, or any of Tracc's multitude of fumbles, or Harmes falling over, or Gawn's dropped mark, or Hibberd's failure to check Rowe at a stoppage etc etc. Yes we expect a higher standard, but I'm sure Goody will spend 99.99% of the time after the match addressing our team's shortcomings and around .01% worrying about the AFL umpires department.

Have a look at the Crows Coach presser. You might form a different view. Yet you include Petracca who made many more errors than Gawn, and Jackson because of?

Couldn't agree more. All the chat about Gawn's dropped mark, or May's lack of body on Tex, or the other 200 mistakes made tonight and yet the single biggest issue for mine was that Fritsch decided not to be a team player tonight. The easy give was on and he chose the grubber which was picked off easily on the goal line. Pretty much all of the other errors were forgivable because they weren't deliberate actions. Fritsch's was and I thought that was even more disappointing than the umpires non decision. It flies in the face of team v individual.

The first point can sometimes be overcome by a team mate running past for an easy handball receive. It did happen once or twice tonight. The second - he took 10 and dropped 2. If you are talking about first option then I'd be lining up Petracca, Harmes and most of the rest of the team before Max. Can't say that I've noticed the spoiling of team mates as a significant problem. As probably the best contested mark in the game maybe they should be providing coverage for him so he doesn't get bashed from pillar to post every game, or get out of his way. The final one was a disgraceful flat footed effort by both Hibberd (Rowe's man) and Oliver. As pointed out on the commentary there was nothing wrong with the tap. It went exactly where it was supposed to. Hibberd was supposed to check Rowe - he didn't; and Oliver didn't move (he should have). The whole clearance thing is an inexact science with multiple variables. Being on the move is one of the non-negotiables. So my point stands - Max's errors did not contribute any more substantially to the loss than most of the others that were made tonight.

Mustn't have seen the same game. His ball use was actually very good tonight. I'd be more concerned about his dropped mark, or Tracc's fumbles, or Lever's soft in the back, or Harmes falling over etc etc. I'm sure you get my point - the game is made up of mistakes. Whoever makes the least usually wins. Gawn played well.

And a few of our other "stars" as well had their moments - Tracc's fumbles at critical times resulted in goals to Adelaide, Lever's ineptitude in 1v1's, Clarry's look away disposals in the first half. Max made two significant errors - a dropped mark and the very questionable 50 metre penalty. He played a great game overall. The fact that Oliver and Hibberd didn't actually get to the drop when Rowe scored his goal was a blight on them both. 10 marks by a ruckman in any game of footy is pretty impressive.

6. Oliver - a magnificent effort in the second half 5. Gawn - a magnificent effort in the first half (10 marks for the game, 5 contested and 20 disposals at 85%) 4. Petracca - although fumbly at times his third quarter made us look better than we were 3. Langdon - a great first quarter, slowed down after that but ran his guts out. 2.Nibbler - 7 tackles, and at least tried to display a decent defensive mindset. 1. Lever - 8 marks and the best of our defensive unit tonight.

Every game is a danger game in this competition.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about this. When you say all facets, what are you referring too? Tap work, marking, possessions, positioning around the ground, work rate? He was actually very good in the second half yesterday, in fact from quarter time he very easily outpointed his direct opponent. Pittonet got 3 possessions after quarter time. Gawn absolutely dominated him. The fact that Carlton spent most of the day kicking it away from Max, yet still managed to find him on occasion was of particular note. He had 8 score involvements and 16 hit outs to advantage from 44 in total. He is judged very harshly at times. I'd say he broke even with Goldstein (no shame in that) and was perhaps marginally bested by Hickey despite having identical possession tallies and many more hitouts (44-16). Hickey had more clearances and marks and kicked a goal, but Max was instrumental in us holding on in the last quarter of that game. Hickey took care of Grundy pretty comfortably on the weekend. He's a decent player. Was Max as dominant as between rounds 2 and 6 - absolutely not, but then neither has Petracca been. I'm sure he'd like to be having things a little more his own way, but that's what happens when you're a champion. Someone is always coming after you.

https://www.statsinsider.com.au/blog/afl/understanding-how-clearances-shape-the-results-of-afl-games This is an interesting empirical perspective, even though it relates more broadly to all clearance rather than centre clearance specifically. In summary the very best recent teams are only middling at clearance but elite at defending clearance. It's not so much what you score from the clearances you get, but what the opposition doesn't score against you from the clearances they get. The very best teams score far more heavily on the intercept - exactly the way we are playing now.

Joeboy: Back in form

Yep - Carlton can't get it out of the centre. Should be very interesting next week!

Especially the way Carlton are dismantling the Bulldogs right now.

I don't know that they've got on top, but they've at least broken even. Hickey roved a couple of Max's taps for his clearances and Jackson did the same to Hickey. Your point about predictability is a valid one, but not because of Jackson's taps - he rarely gets any. His best work is on the follow up to the other ruckman's hitouts - almost a Max in reverse situation.

And before everyone goes completely off the rails about Gawn and his value to the team, look back over the first 6 rounds. Even Simon Madden wasn't best on every week. He's not been beaten in either of the last two games (both the Age and Herald Sun listed him amongst the best last night). Not at his best perhaps, and definitely we've looked worse because of it, but suggestions that we are better when he isn't in the ruck are ludicrous and based on a very small sample size. Let's see what the coaches and players come up with this week. I'm expecting a return to regular programming next week. Total clearance numbers 39-37 our way, which means we won 35-20 in around the ground clearance. That's always been Gawn and Oliver's greatest strength. The space afforded centre clearance doesn't help us and the swans ability to block for space stood out as Nasher pointed out. Around the ground with 20 plus bodies involved is where Max and Clarry do their best work.

Great analysis and exactly what happened. Jackson is not a ruckman at this stage. He plays the role of nuisance value at the ball up then acts as an extra mid. His follow up work is very good, but for us to win the flag we need much better connection between the premier ruck in the game and the midfield at centre bounce. Viney will make some difference to this. Love your work, Nasher.

This is a great discussion. I've read how we look better with Jackson in there. Jackson barely wins a hit out. What he can do is play as a an extra on baller and will sometimes clean up the opposing rucks hitout. It is an ok occasional strategy if he can clear it and move it forward. The problem is that Gawn and most of our midfield work better in real congestion, hence why we almost always win clearance around the ground. We will get the centre work right and when it does happen we will really mess some teams up. Those advocating Jackson spend more time in the ruck however are not seeing what's actually happening.

Me too!

Finishing top is overrated. Last side to win the flag finishing first after the H&A was Hawthorn in 2013. The next two were from 2nd and 3rd, the Bulldogs in 2016 were 7th after H&A; the only year the Tigers were first was 2018 when they dropped the prelim. The great Brisbane side never finished on top either. I'll happily take 2nd, 3rd or 4th after round 23.

Yeah, not sure about that. Last game in 2019 Gawn absolutely pantsed Goldy - 3 goals and 3 Brownlow votes. They didn't play each other last year. I think it was 2016 when Gawn polled 2 Brownlow votes and had 60+ hitouts against Goldy. Goldy did kick 5 that day and got the 3 but it was an epic duel. I reckon Max was just off today. Goldy hardly had a stellar impact on the game, with a 19 year old kid jumping all over him.

Good work, joeboy!

Yep, it wasn't his best game but to say Goldy slaughtered him by having less hitouts, marks or disposals is a big stretch. Jackson was close enough to best on so I'd reckon it might count as one of Goldy's poorer games too.