Swooper1987

In the history of the game lots of players have had statistically better years than others and not won major awards. The game is in the eye of the beholder. Umpires do the Brownlow, media do their awards, the AA selectors bring their own bias, as do the coaches (still can't believe Naitanui polled against us a couple of weeks back). You mentioned the Age and HS journalists where votes are often handed out by hack journalists who look at the stat sheets, yet you reference Oliver's stats. The reality is, Oliver, Wines, Walsh, Miller, Steele and Bontempelli have all been great this year and a case can be made for all of them. I'd love Clarry to clean up but I won't care one little bit if he's wearing a premiership medal at the end of it all. Anyway, we agree that Oliver is a star and has had a brilliant year.

Maybe so, but Wines has had an outstanding season. I think Wines is Oliver's biggest threat for the Brownlow.

Ollie Wines has taken out both the Age and Herald Sun player of the year award. Wines polled 145 votes in The Age, Oliver was equal second on 116, tied with Sam Walsh.

I find Montagna to be very balanced (and astute) in his analysis. He's definitely the brightest member of the First Crack team.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-the-most-captivating-final-round-of-the-afl-era-demon-hearts-beat-true-dockers-shocker-20210822-p58kwk.html Michael Gleeson sums it up perfectly here.

Huge effort by our ruck - forward combination in 2021. Jackson and Gawn have combined for 26 goals this season. That is some effort. Combined they've kicked 2 more than Petracca and only 4 less than McDonald. That's a very impressive effort to go at over a goal per game. Makes such a difference having that extra avenue. And Kozzy with 35 as a second year player is just a sensational performance.

I thought Scott's pressa started fine and was pretty fair. His commentary on dominating the game was largely about keeping his team's confidence up. Obviously the ruck is a major worry for them and Stanley has been pretty serviceable for the second half of the year, but to say he dominated Gawn until the last quarter was a massive stretch. Again that was to help Stanley's ego, but truth is he was absolutely smashed and Kane Cornes pointed out how pathetic his effort in the last play was. Occasionally you'll get some interesting insight out of these things, but at this stage of the year it's really all about keeping your team "up". Goody's pressas are the biggest non-event since the days of Yabby Jeans. Doesn't give away much at all.

Don't expect Clarry to poll against Adelaide but he's got at least 2 from last night. He probably deserves 3 but it depends how much emphasis the umps put on Gawn's last quarter, he'd be the only threat. Bont can't poll in the last couple of games and Wines definitely will.

If anyone doubted Gawn's ability as a leader that should be completely put to bed after his last quarter tonight. As great as Oliver was, Gawn was the momentum changer in the last. Jackson was a non event tonight and Gawn's last quarter was one of the great Captain's efforts. For those who followed footy in the 80's, that shot at goal after the siren might bring back memories of 1987 final round. Steve Kernahan had to do the same as Max to seal top spot for Carlton. He did, and it probably won them the flag. Let's hope history repeats.

The Age: 9 Oliver 8 Gawn 8 Selwood 7 Dangerfield 7 Salem

6. Gawn 5. Oliver 4. Lever 3. Salem 2. Pickett 1. Viney

Oliver unlikely. Seedsman will poll well in the Adelaide v Melbourne game. I expect Gawn, Petracca, Lever and Fritsch will be most likely, perhaps Jackson. Agree on Miller. He's a big danger (and a terrific footballer).

These votes are in terms of influencing thegame when it was a genuine contest. 6. Gawn 5. Langdon 4. Petracca 3. Lever 2. Salem 1. Fritsch Unlucky - Petty, Oliver, Rivers

He was a very good player too. I wonder how much of a difference he and Lyon would've made in the 87 prelim? Chris did his knee in round 5 at Carrara and then of course everyone knows about the famous Lyon stretcher incident in round 22 when he broke his leg early in the game at the Western Oval.

The post match pressers are usually indicative. Simpson was very bullish about Yeo and Naitanui. Goodwin equally effusive about Jackson. Goodwin also made mention of our third quarter dominance which by extension means Naitanui wouldn't have been in his consideration given he got exactly zero disposals in that quarter - the match deciding quarter as it turned out to be. Redden and Kelly were the best four quarter eagles in my view. It makes no sense that Goody would've given 4 to Jacko and 1 to Naitanui given they played on each other for a big chunk of the night.

Bizarre. Only Goodwin voted for Jackson, and how Simpson voted for Naitanui's 5 minute burst is beyond belief. Simpson's judgement with his voting is reflective of his current coaching performance.

Love these votes from Michael Lynch in The Age. Great to see a couple of unsung heroes recognized for their performance. VOTES Ben Brown (Melbourne) 8 Tim Kelly (West Coast) 7 James Harmes (Melbourne) 7 Alex Neal-Bullen (Melbourne) 7 Jake Bowey (Melbourne) 6

I've been listening to the summary of the last 15 minutes - how the WC big dogs got them back into the game. Isn't that the major problem with them? In the third quarter, when the game was essentially won, Gawn smashed NicNat. NN didn't trouble the statisticians for the quarter in terms of disposals, whereas Gawn was dancing around like a ruck rover. Some of his field kicking (including on the left) was amazing. Same with Yeo - a great last quarter no doubt, but again only when there was nothing to lose. No doubt we'll hear from Gerard Healy about how great they are but in reality they are generally a lazy, conditional footy team. I can't see them making finals now and had we not had the interruption last night, we win that game very comfortably.

Couldn't agree more. But they are also the most "honest" side. They'll beat pretty much everyone below them and lose to anyone above them. It's that consistency that has them where they are.

I've said it before but I think Gawn is criminally underrated by a lot of posters here and media elsewhere. He played a fantastic ruckman's game, got the ball moving in our direction (31 hitouts 42% to advantage), kicks a couple of goals, goes at 69% DE and has 11 score involvements (second highest for us). Lyon says on the telecast that Gawn has been quiet - Fox Footy group think takes hold, the media who aren't at the game but listen to Lyon's commentary all fall for it. Only the HS listed Gawn in the best players. Nothing in the Age for Max, nor AFL.com.au. He was statistically better than any other ruckman this week in nearly all categories. Both coaches rate him the third best player on the ground. The coaches clearly didn't listen to the commentary team. It never ceases to amaze me how frequently wrong the "experts" are.

Let's just shore up a top 4 spot first before we entertain where it's played.

Irrespective of what happens from now, this is our most successful Home and Away season in terms of premiership points since 1990 when we won 16 games. 14.5 wins is better than any season since, and that includes our GF season of 2000 (14 wins) and our preliminary final seasons of 1994 (12), 1998 (14) and 2018 (14). Let's hope we can beat the 16 of 1990 and secure top 4.

Too hard this week. About 15 genuine contenders. Like the under 11's - a good team effort

Gawn's DE has dropped since he has focused more on winning clearance himself. His grabs out of the ruck contest and throwing it on to the boot to move the ball forward are almost never going to be "efficient" under the stats definition. Also, it is much easier to be efficient if you handball more. Max is one of the few rucks who kicks more often than handballs.

Was just a statement of fact Mono, not a wish!