stevethemanjordan

How old was Harley when he was delisted? I'm not expressing that proof of him being no good is because he was delisted. But surely that says something about a 27 year old experienced player no? I'm just confused as to what we see in him, apart from experience. If experience is all it is then I'm not convinced we have made the correct decision. The last thing we need is another senior player who is not up to AFL standard.

And what if a player who is not concentrating drops a mark...? That surely comes down to being switched on which reflects concentration and attitude. It can work both ways.

What the hell? Every player in the AFL should in theory have sublime skills. People have every right to be questioning why we are not hitting targets? Especially when there is no pressure applied. Did you watch any of the nab cup Axis of Bob? Myself and everyone else on this forum should demand an improvement of executing skills such as kicking and handballing. This is what AFL players are paid to do FFS. This is what they have been trying to improve on since the start of pre - season last year.

They are both spuds. 45, average touches a game? This is the most useless stat in all of footy. When will somebody realise this.. CJ was a silkier mover and had better skills but still wasn't an excellent kick or mark. Macdonald was de-listed. We definitely don't need him in our backline.

Dear demonlanders, Where should I start? After going to the G for the first time in over a year and a half, I came home feeling more frustrated, confused and upset then I ever have after watching Melbourne play. Last year I spent the whole year and season in London but still followed very closely thanks to this site and being able to stream some games. Whilst last year was a tough year, I came home feeling excited by the prospect of this season after reading some very positive and uplifting reviews of Melbourne's pre season form pre -nab cup. I'm not sure if it's supporters that are blind by love for the team. Or maybe supporters that have never played a footy match to a relatively high standard? You may think it wouldn't make a difference, but it definitely does. What I am getting to is that it seems that this site is only really here to bring us all to a happy place. To embrace every player and draw the positives out. To numb minds of supporters like myself for a while and to persuade fellow readers that we have players that are much better than most people think. Nothing is making me more sick and infuriated than hearing talk about a premiership or finals in X amount of years. If I hear it again, I think I am going to kill someone. Wake the f#*@& up. It's fine to dream. But I'm not falling for this "think of how good we will be in 2012". We have no idea how good we will be then. We are basing this pathetic illogical reasoning on the fact that we have had a good few years gaining high draft picks and assume that every single one of them will be absolute superstars !!! There is one small problem Melbourne supporters... It's that we have the worst middle to late age group of players in the AFL and that right there is a reality no matter what poster, what ever age, with however many posts he/she has made on this forum (thinking that they are gods gift). We are nowhere near where people on this site think we are. Talk to someone outside of this forum. A non biased supporter of the dees like myself. I'm all for optimism in times like this. But I am also for fixing the immediate problem. We can't keep dwelling on what the future may hold for Melbourne in the coming years. There are so many variables in this game that can change. Injuries, contracts, player's not reaching potential etc. These are all factors that demonlander's seem to miss when jumping out of their seat with the thought of how good our team will be one day. I don't want to talk about one day. I want to talk about today ! I want to know why we have so many experienced players that just don't seem like they want to play AFL? I was watching Campbell Brown on the MCC members wing on Saturday and our whole leadership group need to watch this man play. We all know players like Bruce aren't the most skilled. Well guess what? Neither is Brown but heck he sure makes up for it with his intensity around contests. If players like Bruce had even half of that we would be a better side. Same goes with Osborne. I don't know if it's the clubs culture that has produced the players we have or if it's the recruiting staff? What is it? Is it Bailey? Remember the story of Geelong? After years of sub-par performances, Bomber and the whole team sat down with each other at years end and each player assessed their fellow team mates. They assessed and critiqued what they thought their strengths and weaknesses were. Look what has happened since... Melbourne need to do something like this desperately, otherwise I would like to see another huge clean-out. I don't care if it means we are left with kids to fend for themselves. Bailey needs to address this at years end. Players that are either way over-rated by biased supporters or players that genuinely have trouble at getting the basics right at AFL and don't have the intensity to make up for it: Bruce Bate Dunn Miller Bartram Newton Spencer Martin Macdonald Johnson Meeson Other players that don't have great skill but definitely make up for it with intensity: Jones Mcdonald Moloney Rivers Warnock (sometimes) I have put them into two categories. These are the two biggest problems we have. We have too many players that are just all round shite, lacking both intensity and skill. I don't know where to put Bell. I know most people on here don't rate him. But I do. He is a natural footballer with intensity and if he wasn't so unlucky with injuries and if we consistently played him and gave him time as we did with Bate, I think he would have been a good player. Anyway. That's my two cents. I'm sure Bailey or I bloody hope Bailey can see the problem we have with our middle to late aged players. Something needs to be done. Look forward to being shot down... x

Correct. I was alluding more to Bate and Warnock for players that demonlanders rate. Dunn is part of our core if you are talking about players that have been in the system long enough to start showing something. He is part of our core in terms of age and experience.

Sorry Nash, But I really would like to know peoples thoughts on Rivers game? I thought he was easily our best in the first half. He went on to make some mistakes but he was spoiling everything. Our only accountable running backman. He showed some aggression when it got tough and he was using the ball well most of the time. What are people's thoughts on his game?

The same players that "demonland" posters talk up time and time again. Bate, Warnock, Macdonald, Dunn, Miller. Bruce was deplorable on the weekend too.

That's a funny joke right? Melbourne supporters optimism... Almost laughable.

Oh Rhino.. I hope you have played this great game of ours because from memory, having a big bodied player against a smaller bodied player in a one-on-one contest generally makes a difference... just slightly. I agreed that he seems to play a little loose at times. You have confused me a little with what you have said about "getting to the contest" and "committing to the contest"? Are you expressing that he has trouble finding his man when there is a contest? Or are you saying he has trouble committing to a contest when the ball is there to be won? Your post is really quite confusing? In any case, in all sides football sides, within each section of positions, (ie forwards, mids and backs) there are different players that have different qualities. As a second year player who has no doubt been told to use his pace, agility and evasiveness may be caught out of position or "not make it to a contest" on the odd occasion because he has obeyed instructions. The hard part is then doubling back after a mistake or a turnover has been made upfield and Bennell maybe caught out of position which has happened and will continue to happen until our side is able to improve keeping possession of the ball. Bennell is clearly not a shutdown player and I would much rather him display his strengths then just sit on his opponent all day and never take on the opposition defence. I suggest you watch more closely at backmen such as McLeod, Gilbee, Heath Shaw. Midfield type backmen who are renown for their run and carry and pace. Not their ability to make every contest their player has made. (Bartram is for that) And as for Matthew Bate.. It is my opinion of the player. Whilst that is true about his top 4 best and fairest placing, I would like to know where he would have stood in let's say, 5 years time? Best and fairest is very misleading when you have a team that has been struggling for a few years Rhino.. xx

Can't disagree with you on either of the points you have made nostradeemus. One would hope that there would be a full and effective goal kicking program down at training for our forwards but I agree that we are not seeing the improvement. Although, in Millers defence, I believe his goal kicking has improved a lot over the years. Another complexity to take into consideration is that these guys are highly under pressure and are expected to kick goals in front of thousands of die hard Melbourne supporters. I'm sure that plays on their minds a little. Especially for people like Miller who hasn't got a natural instinct and technique for kicking goals. I believe it's a waste of time throwing Martin in the forward line. He has been a project player of the last couple of years and every time he becomes settled in one position it seems we take him out and throw him to the deep end again...(forward and ruck these days). In my opinion, we are not solving anything by playing Martin forward except maybe to take a big defender out of the game which may or may not have more upside.. Depends on the game and who is playing etc.... Newton is of no value. I think we have kept him because we still have Watts and Jurrah who are developing and this is really his last chance. Just doesn't seem like he has the desire to play at AFL level. I agree that Brad green would be great for full forward. If we left him one out in the square and Miller could push up the ground like he used to with Neitz I feel we could have a far more effective forward line then what we have been experimenting with lately... But this is just my view. The only problem you would have with this is that our midfield would have to have their kicking boots on. Would like to see this strategy implemented at some stage this season. Go Dees.

As I stated..... ? Can't tell if you are agreeing or not ? Haha

What I worry about is the amount of posters expressing their concerns about Bennells body on body skills.... He is a second year player FCS and is nowhere near physically mature enough to hold is own against opposition forwards. From what he showed in the game against Westcoast, he made fantastic spoiling efforts a number of times? Yes I have seen him a little loose on his opponent on more than one occasion and he will learn from this. But body on body, of course he will be easily shoved aside at times this year. IMO the message to him from the coaching staff is to use his pace and take the game on. Of course he will get caught at times but I am extremely pleased with what I have seen so far. He may well be the most exciting youngster on stage this year. P.S. (Posters should be worrying far less about an undeveloped second year player and start concerning yourselves with players like Bate who is in his fourth or fifth season who I am still having trouble watching after he continues to make the same mistakes)

And just to add something about Bate.... (for some reason the mods closed the game thread) To Bates Mate and all other die hard Melbourne supporters that seem so narrow-minded and naive when it comes to our own teams players.... Rather than hearing Melbourne supporters talking up how good Melbourne players are, why don't you go and find some non-biased footy enthusiast and listen to their opinions on all players in the AFL. Whilst I understand this forum is not for slagging off players, I would like to express my views on Bate as a player... Bate is an average footballer who may have a good game here and there. His weaknesses FAR outweigh his strengths. I don't give a s*#&t that this was a practice match for him and he has had injuries. I was not expecting a dominant display with 5 goals, 12 marks, number of assists etc etc. All I ask for is that a player at his age, with his experience, not make the same mistakes as he has always done. People slag Bell off for having no awareness... Why is it that I never hear this comment made about Bate when he is just as bad, if not worse. Bate has terrible balance and no acceleration. He has shocking ball handling skills. (Cannot pick the ball up cleanly below his knees). He is not prepared to block for his teammates. The only attributes I believe he has is that he can take the odd pack mark and he has a penetrating kick that "can" be damaging when he decides to play with a bit of consistency. I believe that is a fair assessment of a non-biased Melbourne supporter on Matthew Bate. I am sure I will get some replies that won't agree at all with me, but I expect that coming from supporters that really add nothing to this site except for expressing how amazing every one of our players are. Wake up. One last point... I understand that we have no other option but play some of the dead wood we have in order to put a team on the park. ie (Martin, Spencer, Dunn, Bartram, Miller, Newton) But I am a realist and I want there to be some Melbourne supporters who agree with me on this site.. The skill level of some, if not most of our players is unacceptable and these players need to be delisted as soon as our younger more "skilled" draftees from the past few seasons mature. Let's just hope we have drafted well...

My god...... This is what happens when our game plan and team hits rock bottom during pre-season. A call for our only big bodied backman to be made a forward.... I thought I had heard it all. Do people understand we have enough forwards who CAN'T kick goals? Frawley can barely hit a target. How do we expect him to kick goals.... Give it a rest. I am just as impatient but it looks like we will have to wait for Watts and Jurrah and this will take a couple of seasons.

My two cents after today's game... Matthew Bate is not at AFL standard. Melbourne supporters are completely clueless when they say he is a star forward and no I am not basing this on todays performance alone.. Martin and Spencer are not at AFL standard and we will struggle big time in the ruck this year with Jamar being our only decent ruckmen... Bruce after all his experience still misses targets by hand and by foot. He loves handballing hospital balls to players that have a good chance of being seriously injured.. I was impressed with some of our youngsters at times today. Bennell, Strauss, Scully and Trengove. Still very small and slight compared to the Westcoast players.. We have no forwardline.... Martin is not the answer.... I am seriously worried about our injuries. We are still a two or three years off becoming big improvers and man am I sick of the ridiculous hopes and thoughts of so many posters on this site. Is there anyone who actually thinks we are as bad as we are? It's all well and good drawing the positives but seriously we need the negatives so we know and understand what needs to be done !!! We still have so much dead wood. In a couple of years when our young draft picks have had a few seasons, we will be heading in the right direction but at the moment while they are young we have to play these third to fourth year players that are really no good. That is the simple truth of where we are. We have far too many biased supporters that really give nothing except excitement to more biased supporters on this site.

Keyser you missed a key word. I said regularly. Our older crop seem to regularly miss targets or make it tough for their team mates.... (a wayward kick that may make it difficult for a team mate to mark for example seems to be a pretty common theme for us) The argument about whether or not we should be worrying after two practice games is an interesting one. I have heard time and time again Melbourne have been practising kicking all pre-season and while I didn't get to see the Essendon match, the freo game was an absolute crock of s#&@t in terms of our "skill" level and use of the ball. Yes Keyser, making teams pay for their mistakes is part of an offensive strategy to counter attack. But how about when we are in possession of the ball? We cannot solely rely on opposition teams making mistakes can we? So I do worry when I hear about us concentrating on our skills over the last few months and then seeing the same mistakes made by players who really shouldn't be making them. Keyser, as I have said. It's not that these players are making one or two mistakes... They seem to be disposing of the ball poorly more often than not. I agree with you that we should have patience with the younger guys and that they will learn from their mistakes.. (hopefully) Other players in the side have been learning from their mistakes for a little too long in my opinion... Easy to say all this now in hindsight Keyser... Melbourne could have won a premiership in 05, or at least come very close. We can sit here and talk about which players were up to scratch or how Daniher did this or that wrong but really we were as good as anyone on our day in 05... Who knows what happened with those last 5 games of the season. The proof was in the pudding though keyser. On our day, we could beat anyone. To finish, I would like to voice my opinion about our senior list one more time. While we have drafted what seems to be a magnificent group of highly skilled youngsters, the fact is that the older group are not at the same level as opposition groups senior guys... (terrible wording) I worry because this older group are the role models and team mates of the likes of Morton, Grimes, Watts, Scully, Trengove Bennell, Jetta, Gysberts etc etc... Hopefully our young guys will shine through and the fact that we don't have a fantastic senior list won't hinder the development of our younger brigade of players.

A 120 game player??? We have 5 of them. (Davey on 119)... Keyser, it is unacceptable for anyone playing in the AFL for longer than 3 years be making mistakes regularly... They are AFL players. There is no excuse. It means we have drafted badly in this area. Why are you so forgiving ? We have drafted some terrible uses of the footy in past drafts and that is CLEAR for all to see Because in the last two drafts a big part of what we have looked for has been kicking skills !!! If you are constantly using this "we are a young team" excuse, then how do you explain the teams of old for Melbourne? Before we bottomed out? When we had more experience and less youth in the side? Our senior and middle aged players cannot compete against similarly aged players of opposition sides. I wish you would understand this and not continually use our youth as your argument cause it's more than that.

You are correct kingswood. This also applies to a lot of our senior players and so many people on this forum overlook this fact. It's really quite simple.... If you compare the calibre of our group of middle to late aged players to that of most other clubs, you will see a huge difference. How can we expect a group of young kids to take the reigns when their role models and senior players are so average...? Melbourne have had this problem for years and that's what scares me most.. It's that our crop of senior players just don't cut it and this continually brings us back to this "we are a young team" debate. This is why I worry.... Oldest: Mcdonald,Bruce,Green Next in line: Miller, Davey, PJ, Jamar, Warnock, Rivers. And after that: Bate, Dunn, Bell, Maloney, Sylvia, Martin, Petterd, Bartram. Then the young brigade..... Now I love Melbourne just as much as any other die hard supporter on this forum but I am sick to death with people over-rating our players. When I look at that I almost cringe.. I understand that this is what we have to deal with every week but it worries me that the lack of class in this list will really slow the young guys down and it may take even longer than we think to start climbing up the ladder... People talking about Frawley not far off AA and our backline being so great ... The talk of Bate being such a great forward... Bruce being such a great player because he can accumulate possessions... I understand positivity and optimism but I don't let my passion and love for the dee's tell me what I know is not true. Frawley may become AA after he starts having some kicking lessons alongside Warnock.... (refer to the technique used by both players in NAB game one against Freo) Bate may become a great forward if he learns how to string a couple of consistent games together amongst other things. Bruce is no longer able to impact games and rarely disposes of the ball effectively (along with most of our team) I will get my knockers and I will cop some stick for what I have just said but honestly melbourne supporters need to wake up.

I guess there is some some sense to what you define "huge" as... Think I am just very over reading posters for years on here getting so excited about the team that they begin becoming extremely biased ad unrealistic... Some dees supporter rate our players so highly before they have even played 20 games for the club. Apologies for the lack of value to my post.

Thought I would get one going as I am keen to hear reports on players. Can't get there myself unfortunately... Hope we see some big improvements from last week. I for one am looking forward to Jurrah bouncing back. Which players would you like to see some improvement come from? ? Go Dees.

Go on Keyser... What is your definition of "huge" then? Cause I think most of us here would agree that it implies something substantial will come about.... and since we are talking footy I am assuming it would have to do with winning games or something, but I don't know.... It's all well and good being a one-eyed Melbourne supporter but I find some of the comments you make little ridiculous. Please be realistic. Couple more years and then you are free to say we will have a "huge" year without fellow supporters raising their eyebrows...

Couple of weeks too late Mr Morton. I do agree with you however.

Second that. Really hoping the 2010 season will be injury free !!! It's getting frustrating as hell.

Check out the leap in the first ruck contest !!! Just came across it five minutes ago. Apologies if it has already been posted. If we have him and Jurrah playing on the "G" someday I don't know what I will do.... Go Dees.