stevethemanjordan

No I wouldn't like to do that. Too time consuming. It's a matter of opinion RPFC. I think he played some good games and showed improvent this year. Would be interesting to see who the opposition were and what the score was when he had those good games. Freo, Adelaide Gold Coast, Richmond. Beat them all convincingly. Second best backup ruckman all year? For one, I would have had Nic Nat if I had a choice. He is very good? Again. Matter of opinion. He is improving.

Billy, You really have baffled me here....

Interested in hearing what attributes you think he has? (Not a smart-arse comment) I think he is quick for his height, agile and his contested marking is pretty good when his confidence is up. There are SOME positives coming from basketball, but many negative considering you don't handball, kick, tackle, play on an oval of grass.....come to think of it, it's a completely different sport.... But seriously, going back to Pendlebury. If you have the basics of AFL down. ie. kicking well, handballing, tackling combined with some attributes a basketballer would typically show, then voila' ! A Pendlebury type. Well then I guess we agree? (Except for the best back-up rucks in the league part)

Geelong? If we ever develop a midfield and backline like Geelong, I am happy for Martin to be doing cartwheels in our forward line. With the team where it is now, I am very skeptical of the idea that he should be holding down a key position. Well, Jamar was drafted as a ruckman. He has turned into a fantastic tap ruckman. I disagree about other areas of his game. In my opinion he has a great understanding of position and where he should be depending on whether the ball is our hand's or the opposition's. He also has the ability to go forward and kick a goal. He kicked 5 a couple of years ago playing forward against Carlton. Martin was drafted as a project player with potential. So he has needed to learn everything about the game from day one at the club. Jamar can still obviously improve as a Ruckman and as a Forward but Stef has much more learning to do and (hopefully) improvement left in him. The guy still needs to learn how to kick, run to position, make the right decisions, handball etc. My reply was to people wanting him to play key position roles. Being a relief tap ruckman under Jamar is another ball game.

Umm, not really no. I don't understand your point? You are picking on me using the word 'unnatural footballer'. Maybe I should have said, 'he was a very late starter to Australian Rules Football'. Yes there are many unnatural footballers that start late but Stef was extremely late. Pendles and Nic Nat both had played the game before Stef with Pendles being a gun young footballer so you cannot compare them. Even if both of them were 'unnatural' footballers. (The Pendles one is debatable). Starting the game at his age and from having little or no junior/senior footy experience, (he played a season or two in the Amo's for Haileybury) means he is behind the eight ball big time. You are good at arguing semantics RPFC. Ultimately my point is that we will never be much chop if relying on Stef Martin to play a key position role in the forward or backline at the level he is right at this moment. That's reality.

What do you mean? We spent $700k on a player that is able to play both positions? It's not one or the other. His break-out year was when he shouldered the ruck for the majority of the year when Luenberger and Charman went down with injuries. He has also shown he can go forward and be dangerous in the air and in front of goal and I am sure we will be seeing him played a lot inside 50 as it's what we need. But the point is, he has the ability to play both roles. That's why he is such an attractive player. No not as high as Martin obviously but it's common knowledge that AFL clubs go for the risk time-to-time and draft athletic talls with not much footy experience because they come from basketball backgrounds. Martin was never great before he was drafted. He was tall, quick and could take a mark. We are banking on him being able to learn and then execute most other skills that are required to be considered even an OK AFL footballer. Comparisons with Pendlebury are just not on RPFC. He went at at number 4 or 5 in the national draft. Ridiculous ridiculous comparison. NicNat while not a natural footballer either played for WA and in the WAFL and again his skill set is far ahead of Martin's. Martin went in the pre-season draft. He played footy in the Amo's before drafted and switched to footy late as a teen. As I have said, the improvement is good. But he needs a lot more of it if he is to be a 150 + player with the club.

I love the optimists on demonland, but I wish some had a realists approach too. Clark is a fantastic pickup. Quality 23 year old who can play forward and ruck and now with him and Jamar, we have a solid ruck/forward combo. In regards to Stef Martin. All this talk of him having a breakout season. I hope people mean it was a season in which we saw some solid improvement from a an athletic basketballer who is still very much learning the game. There is no way in hell we can rely on him to hold down a position like CHF or CHB. He got a lot of game time because of depleted ruck stocks last year and the guy showed some improvement which I would have thought is a given considering the amount of hours the coaching team have put into him. Martin is no natural footballer. He still has an extremely suss kicking style, is still understanding positional movement and lacks hardness and aggression. There is no way we can stick him at CHF and expect to even hold his own against good sides. I'm happy to persist with him and for him to continue to develop as a footballer but he is never going to set the world on fire and I'm really not pumping my own tyres up here but if you have played the game to a reasonably high standard it's pretty easy to see this. Jamar and Clark - Ruck/forward Martin - Backup incase one of the big fellers go down including Frawley/Riv. Gawn and Fitz - Injury free years and developing at Casey. * I'm not saying don't play Martin/Gawn/Fitz. Obviously if their form warrants a game we should reward them but they all still need lots and lots of development. Even Martin.

You do realise that this was when he thought he was invincible and that nothing like this would ever happen? Most people end up stepping over that line before they are really taught a lesson and Fev is clearly one of those people. I was all for the giving the man another chance but now that we have landed Clark, I'm not really sure what to think. I don't know why people are so scared of what could happen? If he is even seen out and having a drink, that would be the end. It's that simple. A club wouldn't allow him to get himself into a position to then make a mistake so there would be zero chance of him giving the MFC (or any club for that matter) a bad name. It would be in the contract. Surely you realise this WYL? He is standing on ice that is barely frozen.

The number of posts next to your name suggests otherwise ol' Rich. You never stop sniping do you? Bang.

Brad Green should never have been appointed Captain of the MFC. (We all know that) He is not an on-field leader and he never has been. Brad Green should be told by the coaching team that he will not have the pressure and expectation that comes with captaining an AFL side next year. He should be told to re-find his form. Find the skills that drafted him to our club. i.e. His goal kicking ability, kicking skills and marking ability. (arguable?). Those attributes are the reason he is still on our list and he needs to get them back without worrying about carrying the rest of the playing group along. Leaders need to inspire the playing group on the field and bring other's into a game. Green doesn't do that. Moloney or Grimes for me.

And I'm sure you're the kind of supporter who rates everyone on our list and thinks that they all have the potential to become 'stars'. Dangerfield is better than 3/4's of our list when fully fit and uninjured.

How about we draft some more 'natural' footballers like Jeremy Howe. Great skills on both sides, great mark and can tackle. Pretty basic stuff.

Nasher c'mon, you can do better than that. Would you say Cousins had a postive or negative effect at Richmond? Was Krakouer a good pick up for the pies? Everyone deserves a another chance. Even you, after that post...

Well, considering we have had list cloggers for years and years, I would be willing to throw Fev a lifeline and give him a pre-season to see what shape he could get himself into. I don't know why you, or anyone else that barracks for this club would be against that idea. This club needs to take a flippin' risk right about now I'm thinking. As I have said in my OP however, giving him a pre-season is no risk at all. And on the Bate, Dunn and Newton issue. We have no idea whether any of them will be given the flick and given Melbourne's track record with this kind of thing, I can see us keeping them.

Fev is bad when he is on 'the p!ss'. We all know this. Keep him off it and.. who woulda thunk it?! He's normal!

At the very least we should think about giving him a pre-season. There is no harm in that whatsover.

Christ. What's with this 'hindering development' bullocks? I could just as easily argue that Bate, Dunn, Newton etc are hindering the development of our younger brigade down at Casey AND for Melbourne could I not? One could also argue that Fevola is passing on invaluable experience to player's such as Fitzy and Cook and the younger players? And again, I could argue that Fev makes it harder to retain a spot in the forward line at Casey, meaning the level one has to be playing at goes up which could speed up development and provide a very competitive culture for the young boys we have... Meaning we won't have players like Morton playing AFL football in 1st gear... Because kids have had to 'EARN' their place in the side.... Meaning there would slowly be a shift in culture at MFC.... Wow... Cool huh...? All these points are plausible. Please stop this hindering development rubbish. It's a crock of st.

Yes, I am willing to go out on a limb here and most probably be shot down by the usuals but here goes... Give him a pre-season to prove he has the will and desire to get back to what he once was. (One of most devastating Full Forwards of the game). If he doesn't show the required commitment and doesn't show the desire we let him go, no damage done. If he does pass with flying colours however, we move to the next step. A contract. Offer him a 1 year contract similar to the one Cousins was offered at Richmond. 'One foot wrong and you're out of here'... Again, if he does do something wrong, he embarrasses himself but let's be realistic here. Let's say he doesn't put a foot wrong at pre-season 2012, gets himself in unbelievable physical condition and is given a contract that clearly outlines that he will have no future at any AFL club if he stumbles even the smallest hurdle. When off the drink, Fev can clearly operate and some people seem to forget that. As a club we are again at rock bottom. There are many questions regarding the future of some of our younger players. Some may go, some may not turn into the players we once thought. One thing for certain is that Fev is a proven gun full forward. If people are willing to give time and games to young players who may or may not develop into players worth keeping, why can't we give Fev a pre-season and then a year to prove he has what it takes. A fit and firing Fev could do wonders for the MFC. Everything would have to fall into place first. The right coach, mentoring, environment etc. But it could happen. Thoughts?

Nasher, we will beat them and you know it. You don't want to admit to it and that's completely understandable.

Now that most people seem to be aware of the lack of 'leadership' within the senior playing group, I think it's about time we appoint a member of the younger bregade. Grimes, Trengove, Scully, Tapscott. We can no longer guide, develop and nurture these type of players to the best of their ability if Green is their leader. That is the mother hucking truth. Give the captaincy to one of them and appoint two more of them to the leadership group next year. Green valuable? I've heard it all. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Has green ever been that player? We gave him captaincy because of the ammount of games he has played. I couldn't care less if he joined Bruce at Hawthorn next year. They are both down hill skiers. Hawthorn is the perfect club for them. Let Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Osborne etc do the hard work. God what I would do to have more of those types at Melbourne. The emotional attachement people have with our captain will continue to impair their vision.

Another part of this whole saga is that we are now odds on to beat Carlton at the 'G' this Saturday. Every time we ever show some F*@kin passion and heart, it's after an insipid performance. It's been the same [censored] every season and I am sick to death of it. Why does it take losses like these and sacking's of coaches for our senior players to start playing football. Jesus christ.

The truth hurts, Patrick is spot on. I share your frustration RR, don't know if I agree on the Jurrah and Jones issues. Do you really think it's affecting their ability to peform on the field? (Player's have got to keep themselves occupied outside of footy don't they?) As a club we have definitely accepted mediocrity for far, far too long. The amount of 'talk' I've heard is sickening. We must assign a coach that is hard-nosed and can rebuild the culture of this club. The young player's (Watts, Trengove and Scully) must develop in that kind of an environment for us to even begin to think about competing in the last week's of September. If they don't, they will simply turn out to be the next Brad Green's, Robertson's, Yze's, Davey's, Bruce's of this club.

But he has had many chances...? I can't tell if your comment was sarcastic or not. Goddam digital communication.

How sad is it that I have the confidence of betting all my savings on Geelong beating us next week? Should I? Shouldn't I? I should.. The day we beat Geelong at Skilled and West Coast or Freo at Subi (Patersons, whatever) will be the day I will decide I don't need to live any longer. It could potentially be better than winning the holy grail.

But Gary Lyon said that Bate could be a top 50 AFL player..... He must be right? Right....?