fr_ap

The amazing thing shown here is how much worse every team (including us) is compared to many premiership winning teams. Vs our 2021 side, we are worse defensively and significantly worse offensively. Also a function of how even it is across the board - in that no team has dominated for the whole year (and therefore everyone has pulled down each other's ranking)

Agree. He's always had a lot to work with and was a fairly dominant junior (admittedly his size was less of an issue there). Looks like a player that needs continual exposure. Unfortunately for him he probably goes out if Fritsch returns

Apparently the swans player slapped the padding at the exact time - meaning the spike on edge was also rendered useless Absolute farce

I flew to Adelaide and made a weekend of it We tried very very hard to drink enough that night to forget the result

I said a week ago our entire season is on the line against Hawthorn

Scratch that Resume outrage

In all fairness to Carlton, this probably does look like a free kick against JVR. https://twitter.com/JakeyJoel/status/1691109610806038528?t=fWj1Q6o68jqwB_BG8JDGbQ&s=19 Time to put it to bed and move on.

My twitter thread is filled with Carlton fans posting videos of their best plays, Viney 'flopping' when hit by TDK (mate, he would eat any Carlton player for breakfast including Cripps, get in a ring and find out) and Trac 'throwing it' in the lead up to the ANB goal. After getting berated on my way out of the ground and being told to move for apparently occupying an empty row some 18 year Olds reserved for their legs, they are absolutely a special breed this mob, rapidly becoming my most disliked team despite my begrudging respect for their style of play. Their supporters don't deserve the team they've got. Haven't seen a single one of them win with any semblance of grace or even acknowledge the quality of the game or opposition. Someone make it stop

"We will finish top 4" Come again? Lose to hawthorn and it's over. We very rarely beat Sydney in Sydney. It is literally our entire season on the line against the Hawks next Sunday. No two ways about it. Were you one of the crew in the Carlton pre game thread saying you couldn't conceive of how they could possibly beat us? Turned out well

????? It would have assured top 4. Right now we are anything but assured. Not sure it "wouldn't have changed anything". Hasn't top 4 been the aim of the entire season to-date?

I said 'if' they play that way they can go all the way. I didn't say they would. That said, they're doing it without a number of their best players who should return to rotate the team, and had a mid year lull period that should have them relatively fresh. It's not the physical component that will get them. Mentally they're beyond humming at the moment and it all came from an off-site honesty camp held by the players. They havent lost since. Their ability to pressure isn't an amazing physical feat - it's driven by how they're feeling, their focus, presence and understanding of roles. You're just coping with a half acknowledgement. "Yeah they're good, but it won't last". Surely it can't. Surely? You don't know, none of us do. They'll beat Gold coast. No doubt in my mind.

Everyone saying "we can play better" - no, against Carlton, we can't. They have picked our method (contest and defence) and right now are better at it. Q1 their wall was on full display and we had no answer for it. There was nothing we could do to play better under that sort of pressure. I said in the pre-game we would struggle to score against this Carlton defence, especially with Petty out as Melksham wouldn't compete against Weitering. I was bang on. They're the best defensive side in the comp since Rd 10 by a very, very long way. I'm not sure I can recall us having even one simple chain of uncontested possession. Or a clear contested mark win. Blues fought and scragged and neutralised every single ball. Whether you're Owies or Acres or Holland's - they brought the ball to ground and held and pushed in every single contest. Like we used to. If they play like that - they won't lose another game and will absolutely go all the way. There is no side that can handle that sustained level of pressure, and there's no side with the get-out-of-jail-free card they have down the other end in Curnow. We've never been the most skilled and our gameplan is literally to bludgeon the opposition into submission. We got bludgeoned back. For the first time I can recall since we elevated to one of the best teams. Rd 6 '21 was when we took the mantle from the Tigers as the toughest team going around. I think we've just had it taken off us. "We'll get them in September"? Don't think so. A few weeks to go -the top 4 theorising is pointless unless you claim to predict Brisbane and port's movements - we will play who we play. Oh - and also as I said, Grundy back in and our stagnancy returns. Yes his individual output was good, but that misses the point. He's always been Ok - he's a good player - but he makes our greatest trump card - Max - worse. For some reason. He can't be picked again. Just doesn't fit.

Ffs this is how they play every week. [censored] me to death people who don't understand teams or formlines heading into a game. They are the best contested team in the league. They are the best defensive team in the league. You're seeing that.

Anyone still think Carlton are [censored]? Their brand on full display. Grundy not helping ahead of the ball

It all hinges on Curnow. If a job can be done on him, I'd back our medium defenders over their medium/small forwards. Not convinced we will score a lot with Grundy in place of Petty as they're a very good defensive team

Good response - I will admit I'm not closely across St Kilda as I've never considered them a serious threat. Re. TDK - it's not that 2 rucks always go after Gawn, just that Carlton's are in form and it would make sense on their behalf to target Max physically, especially given we're going to be a (quality) tall forward short and therefore will rely on Max bailing us out in the air as we so often do. I share your principle concern on neutralising the air.

No - you don't get to do this to them and not us. Do you realise they're building the same narrative about us on their forum? It's standard fare for fans to fool themselves into confidence. "Collingwood had the flu, Brisbane [censored] the bed at their worst ground in the last 5 minutes, Adelaide had 5 out inc. Laird, Richmond pushed them all the way and the lowly Kangaroos completely outplayed them for a quarter. Petty is injured and Oliver will be rusty". Not hard is it? Sound familiar or are you incapable of looking in the mirror? They have copied our game plan and are trying to copy our DNA. Contest & Defence. Statistically, they're the best in the comp at it since round 10. That's objective. Ignore them at your peril. I feel good about how we've been tracking (or at least I did until Petty), but it's not inconceivable that they beat us at our own game on Saturday. I hope not as I have tickets, but if so there will be apparently be some very surprised folks on here.

Yes we will. I hope it's us but get sick of the back slapping in here that discredits their form or posters saying they're not worried. I think it will be a tougher game than KB.

And you are underestimating theirs. I wasn't aware that supporting one team meant I could be blindly ignorant of the other.

Have you not been watching? Removing Harry and SOS has made them far less predictable and they're getting scoring contributions across their midfield and small/mid sized forwards. We've also been conceding big scores. Petty would have kept Weitering occupied but that's out. We no longer have a matchup for him (he'll destroy Melk). Saints midfield included Steele and B Crouch amongst others, which compares favourably to our recent starting midfield of Sparrow and JJ. Viney a trump card, but no more than an equal of Steele who has come top 5 in the Brownlow 3 years running. Petracca in there tips us over the edge, but we don't have the luxury now we need him down forward. Oliver - who knows but I wouldnt take any bets on him playing. Even if he does, he hasn't played in 11 weeks and apparently hasn't been able to finish a training session. Carlton are the best defensive side in the comp since round 10 by a huge margin. Have the Coleman medal winner, the reigning Brownlow medal winner, 2 rucks to smash into Max and they play the same contested stuff we do, are on a huge hot streak culminating from a player-led honesty session at an off-site camp. They broke through the 2nd best defensive side (St Kilda) with almost their entire starting midfield out of action and scored relatively well against them through their contest work. It's us that will be worried about getting to 100.

Shattering news. Pretty hard to win a flag without a mature key forward that can take a grab, and more importantly, stop elite defenders taking a grab. Has been our problem since the end of 21 and will take some significant doing for us to win it from here. The poster who said the 23 flag hobbled off the ground in Hobart is odds on to be correct from here. Smith the best of the remaining options, and he has been injury prone his entire career as well. We may be calling on Schache out of pure need, or reverting to the problematic two ruck setup. Trac and Melk as the keys cannot work - against the best full backs and defences they just won't be able to compete in the air. Melk is good at it, but even on the weekend he had a number of marks taken on him by a larger key defender.

Agree with this, skiing is the best

Not sure its a little thing and not sure its underrated. It's literally what's held Schache and Weideman back. They don't have an innate understanding of body contact - they don't seek it out, don't understand the push & pull. You can't really develop it either. Hogan had it from day 1 and it allowed him to kick goals immediately on AFL quality defenders. It's the #1 thing I look for in a key forward from day dot, whether they're kicking goals or not. Brown, for all his foibles, actually does have some understanding - I think his mind gets it - but he doesn't have the physical strength or centre of gravity to use it effectively. It's why so many defenders make great forwards, because as a defender if you dont seek or understand body contact, you may as well play a different sport...

What? Schache is one of the softest key forwards I've ever seen. Contested marking at AFL level against the best defenders is not at all his forte. He's not bad in space, a good field kick and set shot - closest to Brown we have. But he will be as ineffective as Brown is at contesting kicks that aren't to advantage (which we do a lot) or bringing the ball to ground, which is what the FD like most from Petty (the goals have been a bonus - he brings others into the play via his contest). All of our remaining options are NQR unfortunately and its not dramatic to suggest Petty's injury could be the difference between a flag or not. Re. Grundy - I feel like I'm on an island with this - but my concern isn't his forward play, or his ruckwork, or even his marking. My concern is our play consistently falls apart when he is involved. He's a dissynergy player - goes backwards when he should go forwards, back into congestion when he shouldnt, and zigs when he should zag. He's unpredictable - like Frost was for so long. I think this is part of the problem with he and Gawn - they're not in sync about who is doing what around the ground which led to a number of defensive lapses against oppo ruckmen earlier in the year. Yes Gawn probably thrives solo in any case - but what you're really seeing is his exemplary game knowledge & reading of the play coming to the fore, with him having the freedom & autonomy to act on it without having to worrying about what Brodie is doing, or what Brodie has been told by someone else. Ultimately Grundy reduces our cohesion, which is so important at the pointy end, and his weeks out of the side now wouldn't have helped. I would not be surprised if he returns and our movement & scoring regains its stagnancy.

McRae's press conference was par for the course. He's always a little twitchy, it's just his way. You're all just looking for cracks way too hard. Pies players were laughing on the bench with 30 seconds to go. This won't hurt them - I'm in zero doubt they're loading, for no other reason than they can afford to. Top spot is theirs. They know they've beaten anyone on their day and can win from 5 goals down consistently. Sorry to burst the bubble, but they're absolutely primed and this loss is doing nothing other than enhancing their priming. Will be beyond surprised if they don't make the grand final.