fr_ap

'Lol' - Hes played 49 games, 24 last year. Ergo, it was effectively - at least in terms of experience - his 2nd year when compared to Clarry who played almost full seasons from his very first year after being drafted. Yes last year he had the benefit of being older, fitter and probably stronger than Clarry was during his 2nd season; but games played is the only reasonable benchmark.

Brodie has played 49 games, half of those at a dysfunctional rabble. If he can continue his trajectory, he's well on his way to being elite. Avg. 27 touches last year, same scoring as Clarry (0.2 goals, 0.3 behinds), & same number of tackles. CP/UP ratio (40/60) needs improving if he's to be an elite contested player in the comp (Clarry averaged about 60/40), as does clearances (avg.6 compared to clarry of 9). 5 score involvements per game on average (Clarry 7). Clarry an extremely high benchmark here...Brodie's stats are very similiar, sometimes exceeding Ollie Wines' stats from last year. An ex-brownlow medallist. If we go back to Clarry's 2nd season as a point of comparison given games played, Brodie's stats are superior. The kid can play, don't sleep on him. Re. us having two - yes we are blessed. + Viney who plays big bodied even though he's not. Not many teams are blessed with what we have in the middle. Not sure why that diminishes Freo or why its even a valid point of comparison. Brisbane, Collingwood, Sydney, Geelong - none of them quite have a contested midfield like ours and all finished above us.

That's a better explanation but I think you're overrating the players who've left (all of whom are NQR) and underrating the improvement that will come from within. Their overall list profile is terrific bar a dominant key forward (sound familiar?) Not saying I'm entirely convinced on them either, but I think some of the discussion here is reaching and somewhat self-assuring

Cool your jets a little. JVR is hyped because we've seen glimpses at Casey of a big forward with heart, aggression and desire. He's not going to be Buddy Franklin. It was one practise game where he was inserted half way through. Big guys take time. Just have some patience.

Absolutely correct. There was noise around us and Langdon for a long time. It wasn't 'real' until it was all of a sudden. I'd say since the advent of free agency, the smoke tends to indicate fire probably 6 or 7 times out of 10. That probably increases to 8 or 9 out of 10 when we're talking interstate players who may harbour a desire to live somewhere else. Honestly - from his perspective, it is no different playing for Melbourne or PA. Both are strong clubs, he gets to do what he loves and he'll be well paid and celebrated wherever. Perhaps moreso in the Adelaide fishbowl than he gets here from our small fanbase. It's all about where he wants to live, settle and sees himself living for the next 10 years and maybe starting a family (if on the cards). Like it or not a lot of interstate people don't love Melbourne - the traffic, the footy-centric culture, property prices, the lockdown. And that's without mentioning a need to drive 1.5 hrs to a pretty humdrum part of the world in Casey. We can bake him cupcakes, send him messages and express all our love for Koz but it's not going to make one iota of difference. He knows he'll get that and more somewhere else. As long as he keeps playing good footy.

Why are you saying they lack a bid bodied mid when they have Brodie? And now Jackson, who post the bounce plays this role and can stand up in a tackle and dish off? They run deeper than just Serong and Brayshaw. Mundy barely played midfield last year anyway...

Like it or not Kornes is connected at PA. He's also the best in the industry and stirring up [censored] and knows that to a degree, the more he stirs the more self fulfilling this will become...Melbourne staff and fans get desperate, and either 1) overpay to keep him (in which case Kornes gets to balance his stirrer persona with some humility - "I got it wrong, I put my hand up", or 2) force Kozzie and the Dees to become distracted and perform poorly. This both a) makes kossie cheaper and b) strengthens the case for him to leave. In this world - when you throw mud it sticks. It's just our lot unfortunately and comes with the territory of having a player like him. Every other team would love to have him - even for a year - and we've got him for this year. So that's good. He might return to Adelaide and have a chronic injury, a personal issue, something else - we don't know what's around the corner. He's been a hugely successful draft pick for us and that should be celebrated irrespective of what happens from now on. To those saying the club needs to look at what it's doing wrong - we're a victim of our own success. I doubt Jackson would be gone if we hadn't won the flag. Kossie would have always been in demand the way he turned out, but I actually think the early flag provided these players some closure having had some 'romantic' success - meaning they turn their gaze to a more transactional 'now where do I want to live and how much do I want to get paid' mentality to play out their careers. Particularly on Jackson and kossie as they were crucial contributors and received a lot of accolades. Not sure I get the same vibe with Rivers who I think still has something to prove to himself and the football public despite being a premiership player. Whole situation does make me very sad though. I want him to play for us forever.

Sorry mate I'm not sure I follow - what negative comments? I've in general only ever been bullish on JVR & as for Casey, I was one of those who criticised the club/coaches for not playing our strong VFL players like Chandler in the 1sts more last year. Do you have me confused with someone else?

I'm not basing it on a twitter comment - I'm basing it on having been a young Aussie male in the same venues, both City and Country, as players many times...and witnessing it with my own eyes. Considering I rarely see players out and about otherwise in this city of 4-5m people, I'd say that's more than coincidence. But acknowledge it could be, and also acknowledge the subjectivity of my individual observations. Maybe I've only witnessed the exceptions to the rule.

Good balanced response and mostly echoes my own experience. I only had one close mate descend into the really hard stuff with any regularity - and he has (largely) since pulled himself out of it. Smartest guy I know which is often the way - he's self-confessed on the spectrum (undiagnosed) and just finds life a bit boring without drugs. I worry for what he's done to his system over time & he has been a bit addled here & there (stutters etc. developed), but he's mellowing a little as he grows up. He's still a good person. Several other friends and in-laws have been badly impacted by cannabis. Brother in-law the prime example, with teenage use causing extreme schizophrenia & ultimately violence against his own family, my wife included. I've got no time for people who try to tell me that Cannabis is harmless. As for whether any of it should be legal or not - it's really difficult & I can see the arguments from both sides. Given my lived experience though I tend to revert to the status quo (illegal) - ultimately the damage that can be done is catastrophic & as we know all laws sadly need to cater to the weakest person in society. This is not to say that Alcohol is really any different though, and its peculiar that it is allowed when others are not. As for Ginnivan - he deserves whatever punishment he gets - IMO less because he's breaking AFL rules, moreso because he's a young man who needs guidance & direction to help him mature. That should be the Collingwood's #1 concern. If he loves playing footy then the suspension is an appropriate punishment. I'm not convinced given his character that he'll be at all concerned by having his reputation damaged. As for footy more generally - it doesn't make it right but we all know he's not alone. His teammates would have been in the next cubicle...maybe he's been exposed because there are still a lot of people that loathe the way he plays. Someone out to get him perhaps. There was a comment on twitter that said if we caught and suspended all the AFL players who've used , we wouldn't have a league to watch, which I think is probably true. I've seen enough of them in person to convince me of this - including certain stars we love to talk about on this site.

I was about to ask - what do we know about how their pre season has gone?

So who do we think will be nominated tomorrow? Turner or Burgoyne?

Full marks for this post...for saying that Jefferson marks the ball at HIS highest point. Drives me mad when the bozos say that player X Marks the ball at ITS highest point which implies some otherworldly space jam giant grabbing the ball at the top of it's arc

Can anyone elaborate on Salem? Did he not find the ball? Others in more prominent distributor roles? What's the deal? Was a top 5 player in a premiership year, in an area we've lacked

Have you learnt nothing? Freo had no capital to get the Jackson deal done either. Certainly not to the level we wanted. It doesn't matter. The player has all the power particularly when OOC.

Strangely emotional reaction to a normal discussion. I didn't say winning was unimportant, I just said it was less important than other factors. As I said this has been proven over many examples over a long period of time, across all sports. Jackson couldn't have had a more 'winning' start to his career with the MFC, in terms of games or individual success (RS). Ultimately, that success appeared unimportant to his retention, and potentially even tipped the scales the other way insofar as him not having any 'unfinished business' with the MFC. I am also equally unphased with whatever it is you think. Its interesting that in this day & age there are still supporters who think that winning will solve everything. The majority of players aren't as invested in the fabric of the club as you think they are, and are nowhere near as invested as you are. It serves them well to view it as only a job, and one they can do in 18 places around the country for similiar or better pay whilst playing in the same position, against the same opposition, flying round to the same stadiums and staying in the same hotels. If they can do all of that then with the (more important) factors taken care of like family and lifestyle, this is what will drive most decisions. All players are different though, and success will be more important to some than others. Most will say success is a factor usually for favourable optics for their new team ('I really believe this list can have success') but the evidence does not support the claims. There is little to differentiate the club's themselves, especially for middling teams like us in terms of prominence and size. We don't have the pull of Richmond or Collingwood and we don't have the lifestyle benefits of Geelong, Brisbane or Perth. Success is momentary and transient - at best it can last 3-5 years, on average it lasts 1-3, if you even get there at all. For players looking at a 10-15 year career, they know that all clubs will have both ups and downs and they'll be there for them all. Kossie would know that he's currently at a successful and very well run club. He'd be well aware of what he'd be leaving behind, because he himself has been a key part of driving it. Port are hardly a cellar dweller in any case. If he leaves, it will have nothing to do with success.

I don't agree. There are many examples of players leaving successful teams in favour of family or location or lifestyle. Lever left the grand finalist to play for us when we were bottom 6....

If that was the case no one would be looking to leave us. We've won more games than any other team over the last couple of years. This won't be about success but geography, family and crowds. If he prefers the town of Adelaide, having family around, and big adoring one-eyed crowds, you couldn't blame him for leaving for port. We love him but he spends a lot of the year doing ridiculous stuff in front of a sparse or quiet MCG. But more than any other player we've had leave the club, he's the one I really want to stay. Whereas I was somewhat resigned with Jesse and Jackson, I'll be utterly heartbroken if kossie leaves. An extremely rare player, a rare endurance-speed combo, supreme skill off either foot, significant power (kicking 55 with his frame is not easy), disciplined and defensive without the ball, spunk flash brilliance and marketable all round. One of my favourite ever MFC players and he really is just scratching the surface at 21....he's well on track to be far better than any of the modern day small forwards (including Cyril and Eddie at the same age). There are very few small forwards that have kicked 40+ in consecutive years around period, let alone at the age of 21. I wanted us to pick him and was thrilled when we made the reach in the first round. Wouldn't be fair for someone else to benefit from the risk we took and investment we've made - I want to be watching him at the G for the next 10 years. We will be a significantly worse team without him and he was a very large part of the flag year. Unfortunately if he does leave, it won't be for two first rounders. Even the best small forwards don't have that kind of currency - Rankine's recent value is about the best we could hope for. I really hate that there is a thread for this. Saddening.

Agree entirely. On balance they were a top 4 side last year - people talk about Collingwood's statistical anomaly - the team on the flipside of that anomaly was Carlton. Lost quite a few very close ones. They have every piece in place and a coach who has learnt some humility, we know can inspire and has them playing tough footy. They've got offence figured out (bit like us in 18). Perhaps a roleplayer or two short, but you could say that about most contenders. I declared them 23 victors but we know you need a lot of luck....put it this way - they'd be very short odds to win 1 of the next 3 or 5.

Carlton will win the flag in 23.

He was critical of all of those selections. Particularly Kozzie as he was of low output - said we would have been much better taking.... Jack Mahoney. Says it all really. He also declared Lukosius the greatest draft pick ever made. He's a very dedicated, overly verbose nuffie who lacks any real feel for what traits are important at AFL level. And a Collingwood fan to boot. Fair play for getting himself into ESPN as he has been doing phantom drafts for a long time, well before it was hip - but it also says a bit given this history that he's not progressed further & is still bignoting himself on BigFooty with the other Youtube heroes.

I count 6 different hairstyles across that gamut of videos This alone is very impressive

Is that not the playbook?

Take that Freo

Would have liked you to have been right as I liked him as a player. Now gone!