deanox

yep i sit up there too...we probably sit next to each other most weeks lol

interesting point, and not nesecarrily to do with bate. with the fall of favour of the classic legal hip and shoulder, there is less of this sort of thing going on. i still think that cleaning a player up, legally, when an oppertunity presents itself, especially a key play maker, is a great option. im not saying knock heads in or do anything illegal, but it seems to be lost on the current game what a good crunch can do to a persons confidence over a short period of time. if someone crunch franklin he will be shaken for the next quarter or so, enough to get a lead on the hawks this finals series... RE bate however, using his body (which is big and should be used) is not something we have seen enough of so far. i think bate falls to the same problem as a lot of mfc players atm, if we had the key players around them, they would be stars. we need a genuine KPF, and a genuine star mid and we wpould have the jones and the buckleys looking great, we would have the bates and the wonnas looking even more fantastic.

of course we can trade him. but no one will want him. if someone is interested we will do our best to get him there. we are not out to get value from white, and dont expect anything otherwise.

yeah but we can delist and pay out at any time surely?

if you throw carrolls brain in godfreys head on hollands body it could become like frankenstein...

exactly right. if they are keen, we might do a pick 90 for pick 96 swap to allow him to get to carlton sure thing and make everyone happy. but we wont be getting anything for jeff white. not when we have told the world he wont play for us anymore, and not when he is out of contract.

the two players may make a difference, but they couldnt make a difference this year. neither player is a match winner, and on their own with a bunch of 18 yo's we aren't going anywhere anyway. RE the draft, it has been around for to short a time, and understood for even less, for those comparisons to be relevant. it is only the last 15 years that recruiters have understood how to draft, and even that is difficult still. the next key is that drafting is not the only important step winning a premiership, and i personally believe that injury free luck is the most important ingredient. how many injuries have geelong had the last two years? brisbane didnt have brown and bradshaw missing the last 4 rounds of the season and the finals in their premiership years. if we had had better runs at the end of 2004-06 we would have come very close, thats the way of the footy world. but as football moves on you will see that to build a list takes 10 years of drafting, and while bottoming out doesnt guarantee success, it sure doesnt hurt to have extra picks in the top 20 where you have a better chance of getting a better player.

sorry i missed this post amidst high tower trying to cause arguments to boost his post count. i agree with you that it is something that is improving, and i dont blame an mcc member for not wanting to fork out an extra $200. my comment was in relation to the original comment, and it was a statement regarding what i feel to be the perceived beliefs. not about what is happeneing, not about what i think is happening, but about what i think other people think is happening.

don't selectivly quote me and you wont have the problem of not understanding what ive written. read it in context with the thread and it might make more sense to you.

the problem is its too late. we've bottomed out. this year and last. a couple of extra experienced players wont make much difference at all over the next year or two, its 5 years down the track that we are now looking to.

i like your deal to hawthorn, but that is selling hawthorn short, as wheatly is 27. the green and wheatly thing for pick 15 only over values the pick from one side. for us green and wheatley wont take us anywhere, pick 15 will help more in 5 years. for hawthorn, green and wheatley are probably worth more than pick 15 for the next 3 years, which could be their best window to win a flag...it completely depends on whether clarkson thinks they can win a flag with the current older brigade, or need to wait until franklin is older, and the next lot of youngens come through...

add in their 2nd rounder, or a swap between their 2nd and our 3rd so: so 17+Bruce+green+35 for 6+24. leaving us with 1,6,19 and 24. and blues with 17, 35, bruce and green... prob a win for both clubs. i think if anything the blues are 'winning' as in they are not paying much for two players (espcially if we swap the 2nd and 3rd round picks), however it does get us 4 picks in the important top 25, and two in the top 6. would also push hard for it to be pick 19 we give them not 17. not that it really makes much difference... if we could keep our 3rd rounder, we would get 5 picks and the PSD pick which would be all we pick up this year i assume. if not out 5th pick goes out to 51 instead of 35...

perhaps he is hoping that one of the vic teams will move to tassie as there is a market there,as opposed to west sydney, which no ones wants to go to, because they will keep struggling?

he had 9 goals 4 behinds by round 11 (kicked goals in 5 games), played 10 more games and only kicked 2 behinds... perhaps there is a correlation here? it will be interesting to see if he kicks a few goals next year when mclean is back. he doesnt have to kick 4 each week, just 1 or 2 so that we have goals coming from the midfield.

rhino, that was my problem when i tried to find the right fit for him. i was hoping we could snare a 19 or 20 type pick, but the clubs with those picks wont be interested. the interested clubs will have 9-16 (too high) and the 26-34 (which is probably just a bit lower than we would want to go. he isnt good enough to demand the 9-16 range, not many are, and you either need to be a KPP or a top class midfielder, whereas brad is a mid height utility. edit: fwiw i would consider trading wheatley also if a good deal came about. he is old enough (27 like green) that he only has 3 years of good footy left, but could supplement another team in the top bracket. that being said, he isnt hard enough to get into geelong or hawthorns teams, and he is not what the dogs are after either. but i may consider green and wheatley for 14-15ish if anyone was interested. it wouldnt be a bad investment for a side who thinks they could win a flag getting two players...

i think vlads plan for sydney is with 2 teams there is a game each weekend, double the exposure in newspapers, double the tv exposure etc. he expects that the exposure will pick up a new market, given that with population there technically should be a market. that being said, it appears there is no market in sydney as sydneysiders dont like their sport like melbourne does. and my biggest gripe with the whole issue is why does the afl need to expand at the expense of the games tradition and character, and current members? is it just for money? because it feels like that is the only driving force and motivation. if it was for the true betterment of the game, a team in tassie, where people play and watch they game already, makes much more sense...

i never said it was right. my comment was that i had never heard that mcc members dont turn up to mfc games but the common complaint about mcc supporters was that they dont sign up as members.

i was referring to mcc members, of which there are about 99K of which apparently about 25K are mfc supporters. given that the mfc has such low membership numbers, and only a small percentage of them are bual mcc/mfc members, i was referring to the perceived lack of support of the mfc by mcc members. stop being a pain in the ass you know what i mean. it is a common issue discussed in footballing circles.

im not saying it is 'heard', what i was saying is that i have never heard of people complaining that mcc members dont turn up for mfc matches but you often hear about how we need to convert mfc supporting mcc members into mfc members also. there are threads on that, search the forums, they will come up...

i havnt heard anyone claim that. ive heard it claimed you dont support the club financially...

he could become it all. or he could become another spud. i like what he has. he has the 'weapons' as it has been so eloquently put, however, if he doesnt improve on his skill execution and on his decision making (ie when to run and when to give off) he will just be another player who continues to turn the ball over ala daniel ward, who also had dash and daring (but had the benefit of red hair). things like kicking a goal on the run from 50 need to become a natural ability. and he needs to hit targets when going forward. otherwise he may as well kick it backwards to the opposition, because there is no way he is going to catch up with his man in defence when he turns it over. he also needs to work hard on running the other way, covering his opponents. and he needs to be smarter at this. i still shake my head when i think of him running with his man but running on the other side of the marking contest to his opponent, allowing him to get the easy give of and deliver it forward. he should have stuck on him, silly football mistake, and hopefully he learns.

interesting point actually. while he doesnt seem to run to places to get loose kicks around the ground, early in the year when we had a fit midfield, he was able to push forward and kick a few goals, a trait our midfielders have been lacking recently.perhaps that can become his niche when the rest of the team is around, allowing moloney and mclean to get the kicks while jones drifts forward to snare a few.

how many games did carroll play this year? he played the first 7, and then only 2 more for the year. that indicates that DB does not consider carroll a long term part of this team. With players like garland, martin, frawley, rivers, warnock and young tom mcnamara floating around on the list, why do we need carroll as extra back up? he shouldn't be getting a game, unless we are in a complete hole and mess with injuries, and if thats the case he is no use to us anyway. he has continually showed that he is a poor role model for these players off the field, and is not a quality player on the field. so what benefit would he bring to us? we wont be using the experienced player, and in fact our aim is to go forward with youth...

do you think that the mfc was doing the right thing however? it would not make sense to train at casey, and have our admin at casey, and then send players across town to TBO to play with sandy. espec when the same players are probably going to cross paths with casey players at casey. i think we were doing the right thing by all parties by not committing until we knew where we would be based next year...

the cheer squad fought amongst themselves, and a group formed a rebel cheersquad and sat seperately. regarding mfc supporters sitting together, i think they do: in the redlegs and other social clubs members, in the mcc members and in the cheer squad. we only ever make up a small portion of the rest of the ground anyway...