pringle

Oh my lord here we go again. I'm not posting an opinion either way, just sooooooo sick of this topic. There are waaaaay too many Bruce bashers and they are waaay too vocal and they are entitled to be that way if they want, but I'm sick of reading about it... And before you say "well don't read this thread then", I am happy to say that I will still read it just to remind myself how over the top the bashing is. Just don't see why it needs to be done ad-nauseum. This is like the don't abuse Brock thread. Will only result in more abuse to Bruce... Gee, that rhymes. Grrrr.

Dean Baily (not word for word quote): He's struggling to cope with the demands of elite AFL level training... which is harder for the tall blokes. Not sure if that sounds like a player who has an elite engine.

Stuey, considering your topic has turned out to be quite counter-productive in the end, I'd let it lie. I agree that Brock should not be too badly bad-mouthed, but us supporters are a sensitive bunch. This one hurt us all deeply and some people feel betrayed. They want to lash out a bit. So what if a few posters unleash with some off-the-cuff remarks about a player we once loved? He hurt us badly and went to the one club that would rile us the most. He left us at our time of direst need. He was once a beacon of hope and now is a symbol of all that's bad in modern day sport. Whether people are justified or not in expressing these opinions, I think what most people here are actually trying to express is their pain at losing a player they once saw as a big part in providing a future for the MFC, to a club we see as unholy and corrupt.

38 goals (16 as helicopters), 47 behinds, 11 on the full. Love the guy and he plays with great heart, but you have to admit that he does kick far too many helicopters and shanks. If he kicked straighter, 50 would not be out of the question. Also, not trying to get back to the dropped mark at the end of the game on Sat, but had anyone else ever noticed prior to the weekend that he is a prolific "nearly mark" taker (ie. he nearly marks a lot of balls, but they just drop through the fingers... like at the end of the Pies game)??? Hopefully his hands will get more sure over the journey. Very good player though and just starting to blossom after a terrible setback with his life-threatening tension pneumothorax.

As usual, Jim is trying to play down what is a far more serious operation than he is letting on. They're cracking open his skull and tinkering with his brain fcs!!!! He's a strong man our Jim. Takes everything in his stride. Never shows any weakness. Holds his shoulders high and proud and tells the world how good and strong he feels, belieing the appearance of his clearly withered body. He is an inspiration. I really hope the boys give him soething to smile about this Sunday at the G. As an aside, has Jim ever officially mentioned what his primary cancer is? My feeling is that it is melanoma, considering it started as "lumps in the back", but has this ever actually been mentioned in any press releases or has Jim ever said as much in any of his speeches/interviews? I didn't catch "Open Mike" last week, so don't know what he said there. But all I've ever heard are the words "tumour" and "cancer" mentioned. Does anyone know? If it hasn't been mentioned, then I'm sure Jim wants to keep it private, so I won't ask again.

Easy there Rusty. Check the date of the post. Was before our match day. One week away means this weekend.

Quick exercise hey??? Hate to see what stats we'd get if you actually put some time and effort into it....

Yeah I think we may have beaten Sydney in a NAB game last year, but my point remains that poor pre/early season performances aren't good for membership numbers. Lowers expectations for the year and puts some bandwagon fans off.

With respect to height - we swapped Bartram in for Spencer at the last minute, Bail came in for Rivers and we had 1 KPF (Newton) in the team (eg. swap Newton (1 KPF) for Jurrah and Watts (2KPFs)). Then consider the extra weight these taller players would carry. We're not actually that much lighter or shorter than Geelong with our preferred team on the park... But weight doesn't equate necessarily to physical strength/power and presence/intimidation out on the field. But regardless, I see your point.

Massive weekend this round in terms of membership. Many people buy their membership at early home games. Round one (and an appalling 2nd straight year of NO pre-season wins) probably hurt us in terms of fans who will only get on the bandwagon if the going is good. Could have cost us 500+ members in the last week (if not more). But this Sunday's pre-game sales and then the subsequent performance out on the field will have a BIIIIGGGG say in whether we get over 31K this year. A win this week and next (we really SHOULD beat Richmond) could see us top 32K. But an insipid performance this week coupled with a loss to Richmond could leave us struggling to break even. That's how footy is. Look at Hawthorn. Peopple want to back successful teams. Two years in a row our membership has grown despite horrific on-field performances due only to good will. But people eventually get sick of perennial losers. We could have said this before round 1, but NOW more than EVER, our performance is VITAL to our membership numbers this year (and beyond).

Yeah the Meesen one is a real concern for the boy. All I remember is that it was a stress fracture in the foot after about round 4 last year when he'd just started to play some decent footy. Now on the rookie list he'd want to make it back VERY soon to have any chance of pressing a claim to maintain his spot. I feel sorry for him. He looked to have something early last year. He is a bit maligned by some posters, but we all know ruckmen take a long time to develop. Look at Jamar. He's only just now coming to his best at age 26. Meesen I think would not be much older than 22 or 23. Still young and may still have a bit to offer. Was highly regarded as a junior and taken as a high draft pick, so at some stage he was considered to have the talent. I hope he at least gets another crack.

I think if people watch the game back again they will see that he was not that bad. And when he gets the ball going forward he usually hits a target. A couple of shots at goal were set up by Bate passes and we have very few players who consistently hit a target entering F50. He was far from poor on Saturday. He may not have starred, but he did a job. I think people may be expecting him to star every week because of his good performances last year. But he is playing in a team with no key forward stars and will consequently get more attention than he would if Jurrah and/or another KPF were playing. He will find it hard to dominate games until we get a quality KPF to take some attention away. In the interim, if he sets up a few goals a game, he is doing a good task for the team.

Well said Redleg. Inner, I never said the facilities will be of a lesser standard. They will be top notch. But the fact remains that Carlton and the Dogs (as an example) have their facilities in their back yard overlooking their training ground - a MUCH better arrangement. We still have to drive between two very distant training venues. We will have offices at the MCG and the new stadium (and ? at Casey). Where do the boys go to sit down for their video analysis, for example, or for recovery sessions? Carlton just walk off Corruption Park (VISY) and into their plush rooms. We may need to drive all the way back from Casey to the new stadium or the G to do this. And it is not laughable to suggest that training schedules will have to fit in according to other teams' schedules. Whilst we may organize these things well in advance, they still need to be carefully planned. Carlton can just decide at a moment's notice to head to their home base for an impromptu session whenever they want. Sorry if I was wrong about the vixens, but that doesn't prove your point. Even the hapless Tigers will soon have their own base at Punt Road to use as they please and when they please. And if the arrangement is so good, why are we already considering a move elsewhere? Our new arrangement is better than the old, but still not as good as what others have in terms of player convenience/comfort... which has a big say in why the top players won't even consider coming to Melbourne (apart from our poor performance in recent years). The Blues attracted players despite their poor performances. And don't bring up their spoons, as they are irrelevant and occurred in the absence of an elite training facility.

very good chook. i like it. I have popped my top. Refer to my post in another thread outlining my inability to attend matches this year. Add that to my frustration at not having won a game this pre-season and you can see where my pessimism is coming from. Thankfully, my pessimism does not extend to my expectations of our FUTURE performance. I expect us to rise up the ladder in the next few years... just not because of our superior training facilities.

Actually, I'd go as far as saying that now I have provided some more evidence (even if you don't agree) that my assertion is not baseless rubbish, don't bother posting such dismissive rubbish yourself... You need to provide some sort of evidence to back up your assertions. Know-all comments such as what you have posted are more 'baseless rubbish' than what I posted when not backed up with any evidence. Please ... please provide evidence with some experience YOU have that shows what we all want to hear... that what I said IS baseless rubbish... because I would love it to be so that I have spewed "baseless rubbish". I would love to hear how amazing our training facilities are... so amazing that Chris Judd, Robbie warnock and Brock McLean would be dying to get in to the Melbourne FC.

It used to be all about the W's... Whelan, Wheatley, Woewodin, Walsh, et al... Now it's the J's. Happy for the J's to take charge. May they prosper.

OK then... tell us all about our current circumstances... tell us all how you, as an AFL footballer, would rather be involved with the MFC, drive to Cranbourne all pre-season to a facility without a gym, come back to Melbourne to do your weights session, making sure it fits in with other professional sporing clubs schedule so that you can become a grand final winning team... Or would you rather join Carlton, drive a few minutes down the road to a cushy 20 milllion dollar facility of your own, with large photographic tributes to players from your own club staring over you... who have graced the hallowed playing fields of the AFL/VFL for the last century... Oh no, our unfinished shared 'home' at the Olympic Park precinct and as yet unfinished 'home' at Casey Fields are much better... in fact, so good that we are already looking at a new Docklands 'home' for the future... because we have the best facilities in the state... Not saying I'm 100% right. In fact would love to be proven wrong... But please give us a bit more than your assertion that I have given a "Shocking misrepresentation of our circumstances grounded in no informed knowledge of the true state of affairs." Happy to be proven incorrect if you have the inside scoop an Inner Demon would have. I'm just not yet convinced that we have solved the problem of our biggest disadvantage to training and recruiting. I have personally seen the facilities at carlton, Collingwood and Western Bulldogs. I have also seen Richmond's facilities. We are paupers compared to the first three clubs. We are on par with the Tigers. We are at the same end of the ladder as the Tigers. We are not at the same end of the ladder as the Dogs, Blues and Pies. Discuss...

Oh yeah, also, no clash with the Darwin 'home game'. Could go to that if I had a million dollars too.

I'm paying over $100 a game... Got a 16 game reserved seat ticket for over 500$. Can go to 2 home games to sit in my reserved seat. Can go to about 3-4 away games. Got NO CLASHES WITH AWAY INTERSTATE GAMES!!! COULD GO TO ALL OF THEM IF I WANTED TO AND HAD UNLIMITED FUNDS TO FLY INTERSTATE. But of course I have work clasehes with nearly every Melbourne home game. Was nearly about to go to my 1st Demons game in round 5... instead work changed my Sunday to Sat in round 5 to clash with the dees game. My 1st game therefore after paying more than $500 for 16 games is round 6. I am the most unluckiest person on earth. In fact, my negativity at this predicament reflects in all my posts tonight. I will basically miss the season this year. I will watch it all on video. NOT a substitute. I hate life. So whilst I know that the AFL have over-priced admission fees, please think of my >$100 admission fee per game.

Seriously, that Hawthorn team could lose a VFL game. That is TRIPE. We really SHOULD beat them despite losing Sylvia, Jurrah, and Morton. I cannot believe that club won a flag 18 months gao. They could easily win the spoon this year with that team in for 22 rounds. Of course they do have players to come back in, but the named team this week is SHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know we're not much chop, but seriously, I'd rather play Hawthor this week than Richmond.

Neither... Usually agree with you WJ. A good fit for both parties.

Yes he will. Much better than he would have had at Melbourne. He wants to be 5th fiddle. He got his wish. He'll get 15-20 handballs a game. He'll be serviceable at a team that has a chance at 6th this year. But without Fev, they are lost. They thumped RICHMOND tonight... a team that makes us look like certain premiers this year... That left Kreuzer and Warnock to get ruck taps at will without an opponent. With a first year coach who makes Bailey circa 2008 look like bomber Thompson... I have a good knowledge of Richmond's list... they will not get much better than tonight. They are our biggest rival for 16th this year. We will fight it out like junk yard dogs for 15th in 2010. Carlton WILL benefit from having McLean on their list. McLean WILL benefit from being a midfielder with Judd, Murphy, Carazzo, Gibbs et al this year. They will NOT win a flag in the next 5 years. Losing Fev sealed their fate. Not saying WE will, but he has sold himself into the middle road.

You think?? Really??? So traveling between Casey and some shared facility near the MCG is the same as having a 20 mil private facility at you own HOME GROUND where you train EVERY week for the ENTIRE season??? From pre-season to GF??? Trust me, I know from 1st hand experience what an advantage the Blues, Pies, Dogs, Eagles, Crows et al have over the hapless old Demons... We can put any spin we like on gaining new facilities... we will ALWAYS be behind our rivals in terms of facilities. Not saying we can't win a flag, but our current situation leaves us forever behind the 8 ball. Not having a go at you. Just trying to show you the reality... Our current set of circumstances (needing to simultaneously create a new supporter base but keep up with AFL standars) has left us just as vulnerable as in the bad old days at the Junction Oval. We need to travel miles and miles in the Summer just to attend a semi-standard facility (a good surface with goal posts, but still with no gym and an hour drive away) just to come close to Carlton (20 mil facility in the heart of Melbourne available 24/7 for use as Carlton pleases!!!). Yeah... Best in the league. We'll share in harmony with the Storm, vixens and Victory/Heart... No probs... whenever we want we'll head there. the Storm can [censored] off if they want it and we do too... Oh, but Carlton are going to struggle to organize times to train too... the Melbourne Uni 1st 18 will want to train close to campus... Surely Carlton will have to let them train when they want to... Won't they... Use the gym when they want to..

Time WILL tell, but what I saw in that post game interview was an attitude... he was impatient. Knew we wouldn't be successful for a while. He hates losing. He can't hack it anymore. He doesn't see the big picture. Carlton are currently pretty strong, but... Carlton could be in our position. They have a good number of high picks, and... They will do well... but... Pagan cost them the chance for a premiership in the next decade (loade up with old talent - ala Brisbane) because he needed to save his tail. sET THEM BACK 15 YEARS!!! They will be like the dogs of the last 5 years.... close, but... No hope the Blues. We are not much better off... YET... mind you. We needed this year's top pick or 2. We are unlucky. The entry of GC and WS will cost us. We will still be bottom 2 or 3 this year and need the pick that result would entitle us to. Unfortunately we won't get it. Let's hope Watts turns out to be Reiwoldt or we are screwed!!! But back to my point... Brock, whilst he will do better at Carlton for the next 12 months, would have been better off at Melbourne over the next 5 years. He is now the 4th or 5th midfielder and will get posessions at will being left unguarded. At Melbourne, he would have been tagged for the next 18 months. After that, could have collected ball at will. But didn't want to wait. Seeya... And good riddance. Anyone heard that grab on SEN about "if players don't want to play for th Carlton FC and want to earn more money elsewhere then they can go..." Haha... A bit rich (Johnson, McLean, jUDD, wARNOCK...). Well good luck Carlton. Try to buy your premiership a la 1980's style (kernahan, Bradley et al). It;s the 2010's. New rules. nOT SAYING WE WILL DO MUCH BETTER, BUT THEY ARE DOOMED TO SOME FRUSTRATING YEARS AHEAD.

Dreaming. i have him in my DT. Was VERY handy tonight. And we missed out. Wish we had a 20 mil state of the art training center. Don't tell me you don't!!!