In 58 years of supporting MFC I've not seen the club so low. On and off the field,but whilst we can't immediately fix the off-field stuff there is 1 thing the football staff could do--now!
This week represents a chance-not a great one but a chance nevertheless. I believe the selectors should forget the future and pick the 22 who offer the best chance of a win.
A win [or even a really close defeat] would lift morale and would enable everyone to show themselves in a better light. For example, even McLean is under fire, yet who really doubts his courage or ability? Each player on Sunday needs to know that the team picked is the best available. It doesn't matter if Holland and Yze are picked plus Whelan. If they are part of the team that offers the best chance then pick them.Holland will offer a target and does kick goals [or can go onto Sandilands if he goes forward] Yze will likely snag a couple off minimal opportunity--he might kick an INSPIRATIONAL goal, and how many of those have we seen this year? Sure Newton is the future, but how many has he kicked for Sandy before being reported? His time will come.
The kids who play will be so much assisted by a really good peformance with the resulting lift in spirit everywhere, that they'll play better and the likes of Maric can be quietly brought in later--into a team which has regained respect.And we can encourage as many friends, relatives, kids etc to attend, certain that the 22 will give it their absolutely best shot--no issue of tanking, or thinking of next year--just a simple issue of WINNING A MATCH!

In 58 years of supporting MFC I've not seen the club so low. On and off the field,but whilst we can't immediately fix the off-field stuff there is 1 thing the football staff could do--now!

This week represents a chance-not a great one but a chance nevertheless. I believe the selectors should forget the future and pick the 22 who offer the best chance of a win.

A win [or even a really close defeat] would lift morale and would enable everyone to show themselves in a better light. For example, even McLean is under fire, yet who really doubts his courage or ability? Each player on Sunday needs to know that the team picked is the best available. It doesn't matter if Holland and Yze are picked plus Whelan. If they are part of the team that offers the best chance then pick them.Holland will offer a target and does kick goals [or can go onto Sandilands if he goes forward] Yze will likely snag a couple off minimal opportunity--he might kick an INSPIRATIONAL goal, and how many of those have we seen this year? Sure Newton is the future, but how many has he kicked for Sandy before being reported? His time will come.

The kids who play will be so much assisted by a really good peformance with the resulting lift in spirit everywhere, that they'll play better and the likes of Maric can be quietly brought in later--into a team which has regained respect.And we can encourage as many friends, relatives, kids etc to attend, certain that the 22 will give it their absolutely best shot--no issue of tanking, or thinking of next year--just a simple issue of WINNING A MATCH!

Good thoughts Stuey! I agree wholeheartedly. Ben Holland and Adem can't do our chances of WINNING any harm. Loved your raking drop kicks mate!

In 58 years of supporting MFC I've not seen the club so low. On and off the field,but whilst we can't immediately fix the off-field stuff there is 1 thing the football staff could do--now!

This week represents a chance-not a great one but a chance nevertheless. I believe the selectors should forget the future and pick the 22 who offer the best chance of a win.

A win [or even a really close defeat] would lift morale and would enable everyone to show themselves in a better light. For example, even McLean is under fire, yet who really doubts his courage or ability? Each player on Sunday needs to know that the team picked is the best available. It doesn't matter if Holland and Yze are picked plus Whelan. If they are part of the team that offers the best chance then pick them.Holland will offer a target and does kick goals [or can go onto Sandilands if he goes forward] Yze will likely snag a couple off minimal opportunity--he might kick an INSPIRATIONAL goal, and how many of those have we seen this year? Sure Newton is the future, but how many has he kicked for Sandy before being reported? His time will come.

The kids who play will be so much assisted by a really good peformance with the resulting lift in spirit everywhere, that they'll play better and the likes of Maric can be quietly brought in later--into a team which has regained respect.And we can encourage as many friends, relatives, kids etc to attend, certain that the 22 will give it their absolutely best shot--no issue of tanking, or thinking of next year--just a simple issue of WINNING A MATCH!

Some sense at last !

Interesting thoughts but haven't those players had their opportunity?

Holland may come in and kick a couple of goals, Yze may sneak a couple of cheeky ones but at the end of the day is the club going to be better off?

I'm of the thinking that these players have had their time over the years, and all in all done a good job. But the sooner DB plays the kids the better.

I think supporters want to see the future on display on Sunday, not the past.

Interesting thoughts but haven't those players had their opportunity?

Holland may come in and kick a couple of goals, Yze may sneak a couple of cheeky ones but at the end of the day is the club going to be better off?

I'm of the thinking that these players have had their time over the years, and all in all done a good job. But the sooner DB plays the kids the better.

I think supporters want to see the future on display on Sunday, not the past.

Agreed Gouga.

If we were talking 2005 then the comments would have some currency. But in 2008, both players have shown that the game has moved ahead of them. There performances in 2006 and 2007 have been lacklustre Given the maxims that Bailey is stating then Yze's self orientated football certainly does not measure up.

And in addition after two big big wins by Sandy where it would have been easy pickings for AFL experienced players to dominate both Holland and Yze just went. If they cant show they are a cut above VFL then they will be wasted at AFL level. I thought the heading of this thread was pick the best bloody team. Neither measure up to it.

Given what we know about the season thus far and where the Footy department want the side to develop I cant see the benefit or justification for playing Holland and Yze over younger players.

Agree with you entirely. Bring back some much need experience and give us a chance to be more competitive!!!

Agree with you entirely. Bring back some much need experience and give us a chance to be more competitive!!!

What makes you think playing our vetrans will make us more competitive?

Lets have a look at how they have faired so far this year:

Neitz - battled until injured.

White - few good games, couple bad games.

Yze - dropped after first round.

Holand - yet to break into the team despite the fact we desperately need a tall forward.

McDonald - effort hasn't dropped but impact certainly has. Easily beaten by Black on the weekend.

Robertson - Absolutely hopeless. Attack on the ball has been woeful as has kicking at goal and to teamates. Worst of all his promotion to the leadership group has done nothing to stop his selfish attempts at marks.

As a group our vetrans, IMO, have let the club down in a big way. I'm not sure why you think we will be more competitive by playing more of them?

Surely at 0-5 it is time these blokes gave up their spots for kids (with the exception of White and McDonald). The time for inspiring and providing motivation is gone.

Unfortunately, the "experienced" players may find it difficult to adapt to the style of play DB is using. Might make things worse.

The current crop will crack a win soon & hopefully this weekend will be it!!!

I think Stuey Spencer is dead right! I disagree with Gouga that the few fans who turn up are hoping to see the kids. They want to see a win!
And as to Rhino's comments, I somehow recall Holland's games against Collingwood and Footscray last year. Two of the best he's played for Melb. But I'm not plumping for any particular player--I just want the selectors to pick the best 22 to win a game.[Nd in my humble, that must include one high-marking option in front of goal]
I ask both Rhino and Gouga--can you recall ANY team which has had a percentage of 50 after round 6? Or whose style of play incites such scorn and ridicule as we heard last Sunday from commentators including Shaun Hart who obviously has some real concern for Melbourne.Kids don't prosper in that environment. They [and the Club] need to be competitive. And with our list we certainly should be

Agreed Gouga.

If we were talking 2005 then the comments would have some currency. But in 2008, both players have shown that the game has moved ahead of them. There performances in 2006 and 2007 have been lacklustre Given the maxims that Bailey is stating then Yze's self orientated football certainly does not measure up.

And in addition after two big big wins by Sandy where it would have been easy pickings for AFL experienced players to dominate both Holland and Yze just went. If they cant show they are a cut above VFL then they will be wasted at AFL level. I thought the heading of this thread was pick the best bloody team. Neither measure up to it.

Given what we know about the season thus far and where the Footy department want the side to develop I cant see the benefit or justification for playing Holland and Yze over younger players.

I think Stuey Spencer is dead right! I disagree with Gouga that the few fans who turn up are hoping to see the kids. They want to see a win!

And as to Rhino's comments, I somehow recall Holland's games against Collingwood and Footscray last year. Two of the best he's played for Melb. But I'm not plumping for any particular player--I just want the selectors to pick the best 22 to win a game.[Nd in my humble, that must include one high-marking option in front of goal]

I ask both Rhino and Gouga--can you recall ANY team which has had a percentage of 50 after round 6? Or whose style of play incites such scorn and ridicule as we heard last Sunday from commentators including Shaun Hart who obviously has some real concern for Melbourne.Kids don't prosper in that environment. They [and the Club] need to be competitive. And with our list we certainly should be

I dont see what two players who are just going not starring in the VFL and in the twilight of their careers offers MFC at a dark moment. I would have thought the Club would want to look forward not backwards. At best your ranting is p1$$ing around the edges and seek solace in the past. Given the Footy Dept selectors know more about the players and their form than average poster on this site (and it going to shock a few) does it ever cross your mind that they might actually be picking their best 22? B)

I'm certainly not going to the game to see a win, a win would be a bonus, but it's not why i'm going. It's really not why anyone goes, otherwise why would you go when your team is the underdog?

We go so we can see how the team will develop, i'd have no issue with a few more guys with experience being included IF they had something to offer. Hence Whelan's inclusion, however guys like Holland and Yze are not the types to change a match they once were. Indeed, Holland needed to have a ripper to gain any influence.

A re-building team doesn't need to be entirely based on youth, but if there isn't quality experience to bring in, a team shouldn't do it

I think Stuey Spencer is dead right! I disagree with Gouga that the few fans who turn up are hoping to see the kids. They want to see a win!

And as to Rhino's comments, I somehow recall Holland's games against Collingwood and Footscray last year. Two of the best he's played for Melb. But I'm not plumping for any particular player--I just want the selectors to pick the best 22 to win a game.[Nd in my humble, that must include one high-marking option in front of goal]

I ask both Rhino and Gouga--can you recall ANY team which has had a percentage of 50 after round 6? Or whose style of play incites such scorn and ridicule as we heard last Sunday from commentators including Shaun Hart who obviously has some real concern for Melbourne.Kids don't prosper in that environment. They [and the Club] need to be competitive. And with our list we certainly should be

Your correct. Holland played two good games last year. He kept Rocca quite on Queen's Birthday and kicked 4 goals against the Bulldogs. In the Bulldogs game Neitz, Newton and Robertson all played forward as well.

If Holland was selected this weekend where would he play? If he goes back does he take Pavlich? If he goes forward surely he'll get McPharlin. Either way he'll be up against it.

I just can't agree that Holland or Yze will make us anymore competitive this week.

Whether we like it or not the game plan isn't going to change, regardless of who is selected.

Of course Holland will be up against it playing on McPharlin!So will anyone else.But he'll create a contest, bring the ball to the ground for chaps like Davey.
As the commentators pointed out last week, the players carrying the ball had no options up-front, so they hesitated and passed sideways by hand or foot. ONE OPTION [and it's only one] is to kick the ball to the top of the square--many goals result from this option if you have Davey, Aussie, Yze crumbing.And fellows like Moloney and Green capable of getting the ball in quickly.
Of course we bring in the kids during the year, but so that they might display their stuff, bring them into a competitive team--not one getting flogged and in respect to which morale is appalling. Surely you concede that the present morale is no good for the youngsters

Your correct. Holland played two good games last year. He kept Rocca quite on Queen's Birthday and kicked 4 goals against the Bulldogs. In the Bulldogs game Neitz, Newton and Robertson all played forward as well.

If Holland was selected this weekend where would he play? If he goes back does he take Pavlich? If he goes forward surely he'll get McPharlin. Either way he'll be up against it.

I just can't agree that Holland or Yze will make us anymore competitive this week.

Whether we like it or not the game plan isn't going to change, regardless of who is selected.

Surely you concede that the present morale is no good for the youngsters.

I agree and your point about having targets up forward is correct. Holland is one option. Bate and Newton are others. Whoever is selected I'll be at the MCG supporting. However my preferance remains youth.

have great faith in Bate--but he's not the tall, strong marking option I'm talking of .Newton will be but I doubt he is at present. Holland has been injured I understand, and when he's played for Sandy has done well.
Anyway mate, I'm with you all the way--it's just that the present situation is out of the ordinary in my view--that's why the original post was so right.

I agree and your point about having targets up forward is correct. Holland is one option. Bate and Newton are others. Whoever is selected I'll be at the MCG supporting. However my preferance remains youth.

Of course Holland will be up against it playing on McPharlin!So will anyone else.But he'll create a contest, bring the ball to the ground for chaps like Davey.

As the commentators pointed out last week, the players carrying the ball had no options up-front, so they hesitated and passed sideways by hand or foot. ONE OPTION [and it's only one] is to kick the ball to the top of the square--many goals result from this option if you have Davey, Aussie, Yze crumbing.And fellows like Moloney and Green capable of getting the ball in quickly.

Of course we bring in the kids during the year, but so that they might display their stuff, bring them into a competitive team--not one getting flogged and in respect to which morale is appalling. Surely you concede that the present morale is no good for the youngsters

Donny, despite what commentators who were contemporary footballers are saying, some posters have blind faith in Bailey's game plan, and shrug off what you're saying as a rant.

I agree with you 100%, but it also comes down to playing a game style that is capable of winning a match with the players we've got.

Donny, despite what commentators who were contemporary footballers are saying, some posters have blind faith in Bailey's game plan, and shrug off what you're saying as a rant.

I agree with you 100%, but it also comes down to playing a game style that is capable of winning a match with the players we've got.

Oh for f$cks sake. Yes lets go back to the good old Mark Riley days which were incidentally the lowest point of our club, and play blokes who weren't going to be there next year and refuse to blood more youngsters.

Nothing would be sadder than bringing in old stagers, then getting to 5 wins and losing a priority pick. Menwhile these bloke retire and where are we ?

Donny, despite what commentators who were contemporary footballers are saying, some posters have blind faith in Bailey's game plan, and shrug off what you're saying as a rant.

I agree with you 100%, but it also comes down to playing a game style that is capable of winning a match with the players we've got.

Now what winning game plan would suit a slow lazy and underskilled list with many senior players whose game has deteriorated and unable to have an impact at AFL level?

Not one poster has stated blind faith in Bailey's game plan. What they have recognised is that the list has significant shortcomings and recognise some of the key elements that the better teams have that are required to be successful. Its clear some posters cant do either and in addition cany articulate a sensible alternative.

Regardless of game plan and given where we are today and looking to the future, I just cant see where there is much to gain playing twilight players who are past it at the AFL level.

RR is right.

As a supporter I believe it amounts to footballing malpractice to not develop the younger players that may or may not have a promising future with the MFC.

I don't want to see a team where the average age is 25 or 26 and we still only managed 6 wins. What is the F-ing point of that?

Our supporters are not going to suddenly turn around and come to games because Holland kicks 3 and we only lose by 5 goals.

The narrative in the media would be worse than if we played our kids and only one 1 or 2 games. Only difference would be if we played all these blokes about to retire, the footy world would say we have no faith in our youth and the future for this club is bleaker than previously thought.

Develop a team to win a flag.

Oh for f$cks sake. Yes lets go back to the good old Mark Riley days which were incidentally the lowest point of our club, and play blokes who weren't going to be there next year and refuse to blood more youngsters.

Nothing would be sadder than bringing in old stagers, then getting to 5 wins and losing a priority pick. Menwhile these bloke retire and where are we ?

If the mindset of the club is to lose games in order to gain a priority pick, IMO that's as low as any club can get. And if you think that gaining 1 priority will change the club, you are delusional.

And do you honestly think that the youngsters are learning from 10 goal + beltings every week?

What makes you think playing our vetrans will make us more competitive?

Lets have a look at how they have faired so far this year:

Neitz - battled until injured.

White - few good games, couple bad games.

Yze - dropped after first round.

Holand - yet to break into the team despite the fact we desperately need a tall forward.

McDonald - effort hasn't dropped but impact certainly has. Easily beaten by Black on the weekend.

Robertson - Absolutely hopeless. Attack on the ball has been woeful as has kicking at goal and to teamates. Worst of all his promotion to the leadership group has done nothing to stop his selfish attempts at marks.

As a group our vetrans, IMO, have let the club down in a big way. I'm not sure why you think we will be more competitive by playing more of them?

Surely at 0-5 it is time these blokes gave up their spots for kids (with the exception of White and McDonald). The time for inspiring and providing motivation is gone.

lol so who is gonna kick our goals if not robbo?

RR is right.

As a supporter I believe it amounts to footballing malpractice to not develop the younger players that may or may not have a promising future with the MFC.

I don't want to see a team where the average age is 25 or 26 and we still only managed 6 wins. What is the F-ing point of that?

Our supporters are not going to suddenly turn around and come to games because Holland kicks 3 and we only lose by 5 goals.

The narrative in the media would be worse than if we played our kids and only one 1 or 2 games. Only difference would be if we played all these blokes about to retire, the footy world would say we have no faith in our youth and the future for this club is bleaker than previously thought.

Develop a team to win a flag.

RR is an idiot and so are u for agreeing with him

this is our chance to actually win a game.... i dont think we are asking for every first year player to be dropped but maybe for the likes of yze bate holland etc to be included.

and if we lose maybe u and ur mate rhino will be happpy and yze and holland can rot in the VFL to the end of their careers

If the mindset of the club is to lose games in order to gain a priority pick, IMO that's as low as any club can get. And if you think that gaining 1 priority will change the club, you are delusional.

And do you honestly think that the youngsters are learning from 10 goal + beltings every week?

They'll learn a sh!tload more than playing around Sautner and Liddell for Sandy.

And we'll learn something about them.

I don't think giving youngsters the opportunity to play is tantamount to throwing a game at all.

Look at Collingwood, they play youngsters and instil in them a confidence to play well. Equivocating playing our youngsters with throwing a match goes along way to describing how melbourne players don't become superstars, as they are not given the confidence/arrogance to do so from a young age.

The point is, playing youngsters in the right mindset only serves to help our club in the future. Playing older guys who will not be there next year does not. Furthermore, if the old guys who won't be there serve to hurt our chances of an extra draft pick, two if we have a bad year next year, then of course it will be a ludicrous situation.

Play the youngsters and any members of the older generation who will bring helpful experience and a positive vibe to the field. I don't think yze and holland bring that, as good as yze has been for the club and as much as holland tries

They'll learn a sh!tload more than playing around Sautner and Liddell for Sandy.

And we'll learn something about them.

And what do you learn about a youngster who is playing poorly amongst a team that is playing poorly? For mine, Colin Garland is a case in point. When he's been in the seniors with a team that's low in confidence, he looks like a fish out of water, yet at Sandy, he's doing well. A full season in the seniors might totally shatter the kid's confidence.

lol so who is gonna kick our goals if not robbo?

You mean who is going to constantly lose his feet allowing defenders easy clearance, selfishly fly for marks instead of doing the team thing and crumbing, not chase, shepard, smother, tackle or put any pressure on the opposition, attack the ball with one one hand to avoid putting his body behind it (twice on Sunday) and then kick goals in junk time when the game is well and truly over to save his own skin and ensure selection for another week?

Not sure. But I'm willing to risk it.