Rnd 22 2007. Carlton = Professional. Melbourne = stupid morons.

[red&blue&true 0]

Totally meaningless game, seasons are shot for both clubs, who handled it better?

Scenario 1. (what actually happened)

Melbourne beat Carlton.

Carlton get picks 1,3,20 + eligable for first round priority following year. (this year)

This results in them getting Chris Judd + Mathew Kruezer.

Melbourne get pick 4 + 21.

Scenario 2. (why we were bloody stupid)

Carlton beat Melbourne

Melbourne get picks 2,18,20 + eligable for first round priority pick following year. (most likely picks 1+2 + 17 looking at our form)

Carlton get picks 3, 21 - not eligable for first round priority pick following year.

Yes we know Carlton tanked.. why? cos they are smart.

I am so glad that Travis Johnstone picked up 41 possessions, im sure that gave him great confidence leading into a year playing for another club!

I am deadset filthy - no you don't PLAN a year in advance for draft picks, but not to leave ourselves with the option over a MEANINGLESS GAME, was poor management. And that is a fact.

[Jarka 767]

When was the last time our club did something the right way?

[Geddy Lee 582]

Yes because having pick 2 instead of pick 4 and an extra pick around 20 would have stopped us from getting flogged today and from having no leadership group and the crappest senior players in the league.

[grazman 7,436]

Ahh this shits me... so winning games of footy is stupid now.... a pox on Carlton and their supporters for cheering the loss.

[red&blue&true 0]

Yes because having pick 2 instead of pick 4 and an extra pick around 20 would have stopped us from getting flogged today and from having no leadership group and the crappest senior players in the league.

Missing the point, not just picks 2 instead of 4, and extra (free) pick of 18

it disqualifies us from getting picks 1+2 this year. (by all reports a "superdraft")

We have no leadership group, and crappy senior players? well the answer is to turn over the list, and winning that meaningless game has set the rebuild back a full year.

For what?

The season was shot - the club should of been planning for the future.

/end RANT (for now)

[chapter 2 0]

As stupid as this sounds id rather we played to win then lose just for draft picks. It's a wonder that carlton supporters, or for that matter you Red&Blue&True, can hold your head up high. Carlton is the least respected team in the comp. And for the record their draft picks from the last 5 years (where they have failed to get out of the bottom 2) havent seemed to help them too much. I'd rather have integrity then be like those pieces of s***.

so yes RBT you are filthy, but for different reasons then u state

[red&blue&true 0]

As stupid as this sounds id rather we played to win then lose just for draft picks. It's a wonder that carlton supporters, or for that matter you Red&Blue&True, can hold your head up high. Carlton is the least respected team in the comp. And for the record their draft picks from the last 5 years (where they have failed to get out of the bottom 2) havent seemed to help them too much. I'd rather have integrity then be like those pieces of s***.

so yes RBT you are filthy, but for different reasons then u state

Oh, yes we are full of integrity, thats a helluva lot of comfort when watching our side cop 100 pt losses every week.

+ HAVING OUR VERY FUTURE IN THIS COMPETITION QUESTIONED.

Sorry but that attitude is pathetic, i suppose we shouldnt inject injured players with painkillers so they can play with injuries too? I'm sure if you were in charge of the Lions during their triple premiership you woulve rested Voss, Lappin, Black etc from all thsoe grand finals, rather then do the right thing by the footy club whos every end goal is winning a premiership.

Id like to see 1 flag before i die thankyou mate - and i couldnt give a flying toss if other clubs respect us if we're standing on the podiums in September. - In case you've never realised it, no other club supporters care about fuckin respect - they care about FLAGS.

You think West Coast supporters would give back their 2006 premiership??? Half the players were on the gear the club knew, but they also knew those blokes could win a flag - yep they imploded but you think theyd give back that premiership and sack Cousins, Chick, Fletcher etc back in 2004 if they had the chance again? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

[Yencks 8]

Oh, yes we are full of integrity, thats a helluva lot of comfort when watching our side cop 100 pt losses every week.

+ HAVING OUR VERY FUTURE IN THIS COMPETITION QUESTIONED.

Sorry but that attitude is pathetic, i suppose we shouldnt inject injured players with painkillers so they can play with injuries too? I'm sure if you were in charge of the Lions during their triple premiership you woulve rested Voss, Lappin, Black etc from all thsoe grand finals, rather then do the right thing by the footy club whos every end goal is winning a premiership.

Id like to see 1 flag before i die thankyou mate - and i couldnt give a flying toss if other clubs respect us if we're standing on the podiums in September. - In case you've never realised it, no other club supporters care about fuckin respect - they care about FLAGS.

You think West Coast supporters would give back their 2006 premiership??? Half the players were on the gear the club knew, but they also knew those blokes could win a flag - yep they imploded but you think theyd give back that premiership and sack Cousins, Chick, Fletcher etc back in 2004 if they had the chance again? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

FCS, it wouldnt have made a difference today! "thats a helluva lot of comfort when watching our side cop 100pt losses every week"....we would not have got chris judd regardless, he was always going to go to carlton mate, fricken kruiser would not have made a difference in both of our losses...the thing is, carlton had a good competitive side going into the richmond game (because they have been on the bottom of the ladder for a loooooooong time) and they lost because they have lost all sense of a winning culture...we lost today, but i gaurantee you, they are and will try each and every week to win,

i know at the moment it doesnt look like it, but most of the players are trying to win games of football... we have integrity, we also have a young list that with good development, could take us into a great future at melbourne....chin up mate, get over the fact that we are a club that refuses to cheat and plays with integrity...winning that match will help us in the long run.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Missing the point, not just picks 2 instead of 4, and extra (free) pick of 18

it disqualifies us from getting picks 1+2 this year. (by all reports a "superdraft")

We have no leadership group, and crappy senior players? well the answer is to turn over the list, and winning that meaningless game has set the rebuild back a full year.

For what?

The season was shot - the club should of been planning for the future.

/end RANT (for now)

God you are naive. Our caretaker coach had signed up to Carlton FC before the Round 22 match, and you're asking why we didn't tank that game? He was tanking for his new club genius.

We're not coy or corrupt. And completely turning over our list whether with picks 2 18 20 or 4 21 will not stop us from getting flogged by 100 points each week.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

And what's not to say whoever you got with the priority pick turns out to be Luke Molan who's playing 2s for Frankston

[red&blue&true 0]

I know at the moment it doesnt look like it, but most of the players are trying to win games of football... we have integrity, we also have a young list that with good development, could take us into a great future at melbourne....chin up mate, get over the fact that we are a club that refuses to cheat and plays with integrity...winning that match will help us in the long run.

Really?, its not like Riley had to tell the players your going out there to lose - he simply couldve played a side that wasnt capable of winning. How wouldve that affected the long term development of our youngsters?

Look it may all be academic, its only rnd 2 - we may win more then 4 games this year and it won't matter.

But if in 5 years down the track, the priority pick (that we might miss out on) is the next Jonathan Brown or Wayne Carey dragging Bitchmond or Cartelon to a flag.

It will give me no comfort remembering we won a meaningless game in which we traded our BOG that day.

[red&blue&true 0]

God you are naive. Our caretaker coach had signed up to Carlton FC before the Round 22 match, and you're asking why we didn't tank that game? He was tanking for his new club genius.

Gee, great administration letting an opposition employee coach our club

[chapter 2 0]

Bruce - money stealing dud

Oh, yes we are full of integrity, thats a helluva lot of comfort when watching our side cop 100 pt losses every week.

+ HAVING OUR VERY FUTURE IN THIS COMPETITION QUESTIONED.

Oh and yes of corse the reason we are in such a shitty position ( which isn't so shitty if u read whispering Jack's delightful article), is because we failed to tank one filthy game? cmon if ur gonna post this crap at least support it with rational argument.

Id like to see 1 flag before i die thankyou mate - and i couldnt give a flying toss if other clubs respect us if we're standing on the podiums in September. - In case you've never realised it, no other club supporters care about fuckin respect - they care about FLAGS.

Guess what? i don't wanna be like any other f****** club! Jesus christ take a look at yourself which teams are u trying to emulate? CARLTANK ? cmon have some self respect you idiot. and as Nugget pointed out the fact is whether we tanked that game or not is of very little real effect on our flag chances.

You think West Coast supporters would give back their 2006 premiership??? Half the players were on the gear the club knew, but they also knew those blokes could win a flag - yep they imploded but you think theyd give back that premiership and sack Cousins, Chick, Fletcher etc back in 2004 if they had the chance again? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

You officially cemented your status as a tool with this little gem. Playing players with personal problems is a completely seperate issue to tanking. The responsibility of a club is to play the best players, which is what west coast did. They also had no cementable significant proof against any player, giving them absolutely no legal grounds on which to prevent players playing. There was no moral imperative for west coast not to play their best players, in fact the spirit of the game is the opposite - you play to win every game - a fact you have forgotten

You are a Joke

You're arguments are a bigger joke

if you are going to post this sorta crap at least support it with rational argument u tool

[Geddy Lee 582]

Gee, great administration letting an opposition employee coach our club

It's a damn outrage. But this topic has already been discussed at length last September, you can use the search function if you like!

[Yencks 8]

Really?, its not like Riley had to tell the players your going out there to lose - he simply couldve played a side that wasnt capable of winning. How wouldve that affected the long term development of our youngsters?

Look it may all be academic, its only rnd 2 - we may win more then 4 games this year and it won't matter.

But if in 5 years down the track, the priority pick (that we might miss out on) is the next Jonathan Brown or Wayne Carey dragging Bitchmond or Cartelon to a flag.

It will give me no comfort remembering we won a meaningless game in which we traded our BOG that day.

really? well yes..last time i checked, it was nathan brown, clint bizzell and byron picketts last game. if the club pulled out the old tanker trick that game we would have let down two really good players for this club (plus byron) as well as the fact, we would not have gotten the no. 1 pick anyway, it would have gone to richmond...so we would have got trent cotchin...cale morton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cotchin IMO...anyway, lets not worry about it, i suppose integrity is not important to you RBT?

lets lose every game this year on purpose!!!!! that would be great for the cascade of retiring players and the new coach.---anyway, stop digging up the past, this topic has been discussed a plethora of times and it is not relevant anymore

[red&blue&true 0]

Guess what? i don't wanna be like any other f****** club! Jesus christ take a look at yourself which teams are u trying to emulate? CARLTANK ? cmon have some self respect you idiot. and playing players with personal problems or injuries is a completely seperate issue. That is not intentionally losing! Oh and yes of corse the reason we are in such a shitty position ( which isn't so shitty if u read whispering Jack's delightful article), is because we failed to tank one filthy game. oh and uur argument about playing injured players? what a joke. where exactly is the logical connection between that and losing a game intentionally?

You are a Joke

You're arguments are a bigger joke

if you are going to post this sorta crap at least support it with rational argument u tool

Hahahaha! yes Carltons the ONLY TEAM TO EVER DO IT.. how naive YOU ARE. The Kangaroos did exactly the same thing the year before - they prepared to give themselves EVERY POSSIBLE ADVANTAGE FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR ONCE THEY KNEW THE YEAR WAS A WRITEOFF.

Do you respect the Kangaroos? i do. - are you so weak that if someone says to you.. "your club tanks" your going to curl yourself into a feotal position start rocking back and forth and cry your eyes?

And for the record - its been publicly stated by the AFL that what Carlton did WAS NOT TANKING

In the words of AD himself, Carlton exercised "List Management" You think our club shouldnt manage its list?? HMM??

It's no different from cutting dead wood from the list.

And how is playing players with injuries or personal problems a seperate issue? It's all one big part of the same puzzle mate - taking every advantage BIG OR SMALL to get you closer to a premiership cup, in a competition where we already lag miles behind in overseas identification of talent, player development and football spending, you'd think we'd be smart enough to use the system thats been put in place? but no we aren't.

I'm not a joke - im right. Anyone at the end of the year if the AFL comes up and says to you "hey you want a free pick before anyone else in the draft would jump at it. If you wouldn't your a fool.

[chapter 2 0]

LET me state this once more - I DONT WANT TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER CLUB! THAT IS NOT WHY U SUPPORT A GODDAMNED TEAM!

i do not give a [censored] what other teams do. I give a [censored] what we do. And i for one want the flag that u so ardently expect will be won through tanking, to be a real flag, not one earned on the back of dodgy tactics and shitty morals.

I'm not naive - i see it better then you. and i know i want nothing to do with it.

if you do go and support carlton

[chapter 2 0]

by the way "taking an opportunity" is different from cheating. and i dont car if you decide to lable tanking "list management"

a horse is a horse even if you call it a cow

[red&blue&true 0]

really? well yes..last time i checked, it was nathan brown, clint bizzell and byron picketts last game. if the club pulled out the old tanker trick that game we would have let down two really good players for this club (plus byron) as well as the fact, we would not have gotten the no. 1 pick anyway, it would have gone to richmond...so we would have got trent cotchin...cale morton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cotchin IMO...anyway, lets not worry about it, i suppose integrity is not important to you RBT?

lets lose every game this year on purpose!!!!! that would be great for the cascade of retiring players and the new coach.---anyway, stop digging up the past, this topic has been discussed a plethora of times and it is not relevant anymore

Out of those 3 players only Nathan Brown was a good servant of the MFC. Bizzell and Pickett were both big dissapointments, in fact Bizzell held the club to ransom getting an extra year that he didnt deserve on his contract by threatening to walk at his last contract extension coming off the 1 1/2 years of decent football he did play.

What about all the future players your letting down, like Nathan Jones, Mathew Bate, Daniel Bell etc etc , by not giving them the best possible talent to help them achieve the ultimate glory in football?, in 300 games is Nathan Jones going to be another David Neitz retiring as a great servant of the MFC but without a premiership next to his name, because we aren't prepared to do what every other club in the competition would?

And you can forget saying we are a club with integrity because we "don't tank" cos like i posted previously.. it is OFFICIALLY NOT TANKING

ITS LIST MANAGEMENT.

The facts are succussful clubs will do everything within the rules to be successful, and then theres us, with our "integrity" and a 44 year premiership drought

[red&blue&true 0]

by the way "taking an opportunity" is different from cheating. and i dont car if you decide to lable tanking "list management"

a horse is a horse even if you call it a cow

how is it cheating?, how is playing youngsters for the future cheating?

Hmm? Why haven't Carlton or the Kangaroos, or Essendon or Hawthorn or Collingwood any of those teams that prepare for the following season once they can't make finals been sanctioned for cheating??

I guess we are the ONLY TEAM THAT DOESNT CHEAT!

[chapter 2 0]

Okay. even if we accept the fact that only brown deserved a proper send off ( which i completely contest) he played good games for us and id prefer to give him the respect he deserves. I bet ur one of the people that [censored] about how none of our past players give anything back to the club. If we give them that sort of send off maybe we dont deserve their help

[chapter 2 0]

how is it cheating?, how is playing youngsters for the future cheating?

Hmm? Why haven't Carlton or the Kangaroos, or Essendon or Hawthorn or Collingwood any of those teams that prepare for the following season once they can't make finals been sanctioned for cheating??

I guess we are the ONLY TEAM THAT DOESNT CHEAT!

playing youngsters is completely different! deliberately losing a match (just to remind you what exactly tanking is) is cheating. any self respecting person will tell you that.

and for the last time i dont want to be like everyone else! we are melbourne! not some other shitty team!

[red&blue&true 0]

Okay. even if we accept the fact that only brown deserved a proper send off ( which i completely contest) he played good games for us and id prefer to give him the respect he deserves. I bet ur one of the people that [censored] about how none of our past players give anything back to the club. If we give them that sort of send off maybe we dont deserve their help

Don't pretend you know me, "im one of those people that [censored] that past players give nothing back" what absoloute rubbish.

Back it up tough guy.

You think Billy Brownless cared more about whether Geelong won their "sendoff" game for him or about the premiership Geelong won last year???????

[red&blue&true 0]

playing youngsters is completely different! deliberately losing a match (just to remind you what exactly tanking is) is cheating. any self respecting person will tell you that.

and for the last time i dont want to be like everyone else! we are melbourne! not some other shitty team!

What you can't get games into Youngsters in an effort to further the list, try regular senior players out in different positions to see how they go etc etc in a meaningless match when the seasons shot? - how is that deliberatly cheating?? hell it might even be damn useful.

If we'd played Frawley for example at FF that day and he kicked 10 and we won, i wouldnt care. At least we wouldve found something out.

[chapter 2 0]

that argument would work if the tanking would have any effect on our premiership chances which throughout this topic we have repeatedly shown that no no it wouldnt. if you don't believe me look at carlton. tell me their last five years has won them a flag.

you are a muppet. i may not know you but i know that much.

and with that i am off for the night.

thanks nugget for the back up