Need to get somthing off my chest.

[demondomination 27]

That's cold. But ffs I WANT TO WIN A FLAG.

Agreed

[warren dean 193]

Sorry to sound so harsh, but honestly, this is bordering on insane. TJ won ONE B&F, no Brownlows, he never even made the AA side. A bit of perspective!

I always enjoy reading your comments, Jaded. They are usually quite well informed. I am a little bemused by the bit above in criticism of Trapper, though. Using this argument we should have just about nobody left on our list. We have no current Brownlow Medallists, current listed players who have won a B&F are JMac twice, White, Robertson, Neitz, Yze (all once each), and our current tally of AA's stands at JMac, White and Yze (all once) and Neitz twice. I would say you have set your criterion a little unrealistically if this is how you judge a players worth. The truth of the matter is, of those players who have been around since, let's say, 2000, almost all have underachieved in relation to what we as supporters believe their ability to be. White has certainly had a number of disappointing seasons, Yze has done nothing since 04, Bruce has actually gone backwards as a player, Green has been nothing more than acceptable, Wheatley has never come on, Whelan has been injury prone, Robertson has been outstanding and disappointing on a quarter by quarter basis for most of his career etc etc. I would say the only two long serving players who could say in all honesty that they have got the absolute maximum from themselves over this time would be McDonald and Neitz. As I have said in other threads, the difficulty for Trapper was that Bailey was keen to make a statement and needed a sacrificial lamb. Trav was the only senior player who another club was prepared to part with a first-rounder for. This is the reality of the situation. I hope CAC makes use of pick 14, but remember, our current underachieving list has been put together by him over the last 10 years.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

For the past few days I have read this forum in disbelief. Collectively over the last few years this forum have two main crtitcisms of MFC: UNDERPERFORMING, AND INCONSISTENT(I agree with both). If there is one player over the past decade that sums up those criticisms it is Travis Johnstone. Yes, he is our most naturally gifted footballer, Yes he has the best footskills on our list. However for as long as I can remember bar one season (2006), TJ has been inconsistent and has underperformed. Furthermore, if i had a buck for the amount of times I have read on this forum "We need to trade one of Bruce, Green, or TJ" i would be a rich man. Yet when it happeneds everybody is fuming. To add to the argument, Travis is now 28, we have put 10 years of work into him, for one good season, and one good semi final. We now get a 1st round draft pick which CAC can now find an other star with. Finally, the message this sends to players like sylvia, and miller(inconsitent, underperformers themselves) is invaluable. If this does not give them a wake up call NOTHING WILL. This sends the message to all our players that you can no longer float through your careers at MFC, but you have to bleed for the club.

For the record, it would not suprise me if Travis goes to Brisbane and win the B&F. However, I have no reason to believe that at the rate Travis was going at Melbourne he would have won our B&F next year. He would have continued to "just get by like he has done most his career".

Also last year Collingwood found themselves in a similar situation.

Personally, if you compare Collingwoods list at the end of last year, to ours at the end of this year it is very similar. At the end of last year Collingwood traded Tarrant who was considered a floater(like Travis had one or two good years, and 5/6 good games a year). He has done nothing special to date. Collingwood made a prelim this year. Collingwood will use the draft picks they recieved to consolidate a great core young list. Hopfully the same thing will occur with us.

I too am i appalled with the amount of callers ringing into the club, having a cry claiming trav was their fav player and he was so skilled and this and that. He finished in the top 10 of the B&F twice in his 10 years at the club!!!!! what does that tell you. Good luck to him at Brisbane and i hpe he does well...but seriously..get fair dinkum people. we had to get rid of him

[Jaded No More 60,075]

I always enjoy reading your comments, Jaded. They are usually quite well informed. I am a little bemused by the bit above in criticism of Trapper, though. Using this argument we should have just about nobody left on our list. We have no current Brownlow Medallists, current listed players who have won a B&F are JMac twice, White, Robertson, Neitz, Yze (all once each), and our current tally of AA's stands at JMac, White and Yze (all once) and Neitz twice. I would say you have set your criterion a little unrealistically if this is how you judge a players worth. The truth of the matter is, of those players who have been around since, let's say, 2000, almost all have underachieved in relation to what we as supporters believe their ability to be. White has certainly had a number of disappointing seasons, Yze has done nothing since 04, Bruce has actually gone backwards as a player, Green has been nothing more than acceptable, Wheatley has never come on, Whelan has been injury prone, Robertson has been outstanding and disappointing on a quarter by quarter basis for most of his career etc etc. I would say the only two long serving players who could say in all honesty that they have got the absolute maximum from themselves over this time would be McDonald and Neitz. As I have said in other threads, the difficulty for Trapper was that Bailey was keen to make a statement and needed a sacrificial lamb. Trav was the only senior player who another club was prepared to part with a first-rounder for. This is the reality of the situation. I hope CAC makes use of pick 14, but remember, our current underachieving list has been put together by him over the last 10 years.

You're right, our senior players are complete underachievers, which is why Bailey is trying to build a team around our kids.

TJ is a supremely talented guy. It would seem reasonable that a number 1 pick, who earns $400,000 a year would finish in the top 10 in the B&F more than twice in 10 seasons.

Compare him to Junior, a far far less talented player. Junior has won back to back B&Fs and made the AA team at 30 years of age after a knee reconstruction. He is the sort of player who gets the most out of himself, and deserves our admiration.

Neita has won plenty of accolades in his career, while Robbo has been in our top 3 goal kickers consistently for around 6 years. He also won a B&F, and finished in the top 10 more than twice.

White has been an AA, a B&F winner and has carried us in the ruck for nearly 10 seasons. He does his bit every week.

I agree with you completely on Bruce. He is also an underachiever, who I would have been happy to trade for a top pick. Unfortunately, he signed a new deal at the start of the season, so we couldn't trade him.

Green is a different cattle of fish (yes, I said fish ). I think if he stayed up forward he would have been a far better player. He is an average midfielder, but a good leader. He brings a lot to this club off the field.

Speaking of off-field issues, while all of our senior players are prone to underachieving, they have all represented the club with pride. They do the right thing off the field, and they are good ambassadors for the MFC. TJ was not, he loves to party, he loves a drink, he has issues with gambling and he lacks motivation.

While I completely understand that supporters are saddened by his departure, I cannot understand the anger and abuse they are sending towards the club.

[Diablo 1]

Green is a different cattle of fish.

Teehee

[Jaded No More 60,075]

Teehee

Oh dear...

And I didn't even have jaggerbombs last night!

[Diablo 1]

Oh dear...

And I didn't even have jaggerbombs last night!

Haha no. Whats your excuse?

I 100% agree with your sentiments though. I don't really believe some people are having so much trouble identifying how TJ's departure is a positive for our club, on the whole.

[Jaded No More 60,075]

Haha no. Whats your excuse?

It's because I'm posting on Demonland while doing INCOTERMS calculations. My aging brain can't focus on more than one thing at a time.

[Big Kev 340]

Besides, TJ is not going to be the difference between winning a flag or not, either. He has never won a final off his own boot, and he's unlikely to be around when we're challenging for a flag.

What a load of crap, I can agree with alot of the talk about Travis, but if anyone excelled in big games it was him. Yes he was inconsistant but he was good in finals games he was good in blockbusters (or our cutdown versions of them). Credit where credit is due.

[warren dean 193]

What a load of crap, I can agree with alot of the talk about Travis, but if anyone excelled in big games it was him. Yes he was inconsistant but he was good in finals games he was good in blockbusters (or our cutdown versions of them). Credit where credit is due.

Spot on Big Kev. He was just about our best player in the 2000 GF and played some ripping finals games - a couple in 02 stand out, but was also good in others. While we're at, I've read countless times on this site about two top 10 finishes in the B&F in 10 years. That is BS given that he has been top 10 3 times since 02 - 02 (3rd), 05 (1st), 06 (a very harsh 10th). His 03 and 04 seasons were decimated by injury and he played only 15 games this year. I agree he is a bit of a wasted talent, but he certainly hasn't been as bad as everyone has made out.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

Spot on Big Kev. He was just about our best player in the 2000 GF and played some ripping finals games - a couple in 02 stand out, but was also good in others. While we're at, I've read countless times on this site about two top 10 finishes in the B&F in 10 years. That is BS given that he has been top 10 3 times since 02 - 02 (3rd), 05 (1st), 06 (a very harsh 10th). His 03 and 04 seasons were decimated by injury and he played only 15 games this year. I agree he is a bit of a wasted talent, but he certainly hasn't been as bad as everyone has made out.

10th! 10th hardly counts as a good season, let alone a top 10 finish. And since 2002...thats 5 years- he's a number 1 draft pick!..the 5 years before that..didnt finish in the top 10

[beelzebub 22,720]

For mine...here in lies much of the equation when evaluating players. We do so ( well many do ..I dont ) against the measure of the club itself instead on ajudicating againt 'league best " etc. Guys we'v ehad some pretty oridnary years with some extraordianrilly averagee performance within them. At times you couldnt really rise you head to speak well of any of them.

I am quite happy to say there were definitely occasions when Trapper almost seemd like a lone wolf. There is no doubt he tried ( at times ) But often when the ol adage .."when the going gets tough etc. " Trav would let this get to him and he'd start turning in stinkers. I certainly dont want anyone to think he was alone in this though. Is it by coincidence that so many of us seem to to think hes been rather lazy at times.

Trav's been good ( sometimes ) but he doesnt offer the same going forward and right now thats where his value will be judged.

Apparently the rule at Demonland is now...its no so much what you might have done...its what youre going to do thats of value. Bails obviously doesnt think its what we want. I suppose time will tell.

[warren dean 193]

10th! 10th hardly counts as a good season, let alone a top 10 finish. And since 2002...thats 5 years- he's a number 1 draft pick!..the 5 years before that..didnt finish in the top 10

For those having numeracy issues 10th means he finished top 10! Get back to me on how many top 10 finishes Des Headland has had, or Josh Fraser, or Clive Waterhouse, or Michael Gardiner, or Brendan Goddard for that matter! Number 1 guarantees nothing other than a spot on an AFL list!

[dee-fresh 0]

Absolutely agree with warren dean and Big Kev - Trav is the only thing resembling a player who could win a final off his own boot at the dees. While he may not have dragged us all the way across the line in any finals, he battled to pull us to a winning position against adelaide in 02, and against essendon in 04 when we were being utterly embarassed until he came on and turned the game. To say that he couldn't be relied on in the big games is just ridiculous - the one thing we could always count on was that he would be one of those who would always slog it out in those games and not wither.

And to complain about his lack of AA representation is not particularly fatal, as I don't think anyone on this board can honestly say they put much stock in it. Most would agree I'm sure that he deserved to be in the 02 team. There are often curious AA omissions, such as Robbo being passed over for Brad Johnson a few years ago in a season in which he kicked 73 goals.

As Big Kev noted, people exaggerate his failures and underperformance - whenever fit over the last 6 or so years he has been a very good performer.

As far as I'm concerned, he was one of few who could deliver the ball to the standard required. And to trot out efficiency statistics isn't really to the point, as they're skewed by factors outside the player's control anyway. I don't think many people could honestly say they'd choose to have anyone other than tj delivering the ball into our forward line while we had him.

I'm in the camp that favours the view that the decision to trade him was a bad one. And yes, I recognise that we'll potentially have pick 14 for a decade, as compared to tj for 4 more. I still fail to see the value in the trade, and I worry that our midfield will be shown up because of it, and others are going to have to learn how to deal with a tag. Remember that brock has struggled greatly with any pressure, and has always benefited from having tj in the midfield. Even with a tag, tj's continued to pick up 20 possessions a game, which I think others will struggle to do in the near future. To which you'll probably respond that the near future isn't the priority - but if our supposed future 'premiership' team is to eventuate, which mature players are we going to be able to count on if we've done away with our senior players for draft picks?

[beelzebub 22,720]

food for thought

Its reasonably well spread around now that amongst the scenarios and "problems" that Bails had to deal with during the interview appointment process revolved around a certain player TJ .. One can only assume he answered this dillmma to the approval of the committee. The rest as they say is history. People this is not a rash impromptu decision; its been brewing for a while. ... and now its finished.. we move forward !!

[mo64 5,280]

His 03 and 04 seasons were decimated by injury and he played only 15 games this year. I agree he is a bit of a wasted talent, but he certainly hasn't been as bad as everyone has made out.

Maybe this is another factor as to why we needed to trade him now. 160 games in 10 years isn't great.

Personally, I believe the 3 major factors for his trade this year were:

1. His current contract of $400k has been based on potential rather than output, whether it's due to injuries or inconsistent performance. He's out of contract next year, and we could lose him for nothing, or continue to pay over the market rate for his output.

2. He's seen as a bad influence on the culture at the club. People often lump Bruce and Green in with TJ, but at least they are hard workers on the track, and don't make idiots of themselves off the field when representing the club, ie; brownlow night 2006. Why hasn't TJ ever been considered to be part of the leadership group?

3. DB told a few home truths about TJ during the interview process for the coaching job. The wider football community's opinion of him is that he's soft, and doesn't put his head over the ball.

Most of the media and other football supporters have agreed that pick 14 for Johnstone was a fair trade. Time will tell, but for me, there are other issues aside from the output of Johnstone at Brissie versus whoever is drafted at pick 14.

[beelzebub 22,720]

this is indeed the irony...its not actually that many are saying he's bad.. Just undeperforms to his ability. He has indeed played some stellar games.. but seldom teh whole season. He is/was respected in the club for his high ability and its this that he was paid hansomely for.

So how would you feel to be shelling out for a Beemer..only to get a falcon most of the time.. ?/ A little underwhelmed perhaps ??

Nothing wrong with Falcons btw ( i have one..lol ) but its not what we're expecting is it ?

[Jaded No More 60,075]

Perhaps TJ can win games off his own boot, in fact, I'm sure he could, but he never has at Melbourne.

I don't remember him ever winning us a final. Even that night against Adelaide, when he played to his true potential, we still did not win. It was not for lack of effort on TJ's behalf, but the point is, his performance did not win us the match, it never has.

mo64 summed it up beautifully. There are more than one reason why we traded TJ. If he behaved off the field and trained the way Bruce or Green or any of our other senior players do, I believe he'd finish off his career in red and blue, unfulfilled potential and all.

[rpfc 27,692]

No one is understating his talent. For mine, he has been our most talented player for the past half a dozen years.

But he ain't our best player; McDonald is.

Talent without dedication is wasted talent.

[9. David Neitz 0]

However, am I the only one that thinks Daniel Bell is slightly overrated by our supporters?

I completely agree, Bell has proven (so far) he is nothing but a good ordinary run of the mill player....1 or 2 good games and that is it. He has a hell of a long way to go to prove he is worthy of pick 15, the jury is still out. Certain Melbourne supporters on this forum seem to fall in love with ordinary footballers who have achieved nothing for some reason.

[demondomination 27]

there are many incorrect statements going on in this thread. I have read many times that TJ "has never won a game off his own boot. LIES. Round 22 against Carlton he got 40+ possesions and dominated. TOO BAD WE WANTED 2 LOSE.