id rather pick 2 than 4...you get to pick...not the left overs so to speak..sounds crazy I ackowledge!!

I agree.

People are overlooking the ranking for picks in the PSD where I would much prefer pick 2 to pick 4.

Given the number of players we should delist/retire the PSD will become important to us this year.

Given the number of players we should delist/retire the PSD will become important to us this year.

Correct Rhino, the pre-season draft may become just as important as the draft.

Think if two really talented players don't re-sign, we will be shattered to find that we cannot get them because we have pick 4.

Pick 2 could get us a ready made start without trading. Ala Nick Stevens to Carlton. Players like him can be in the top 1 and 2 picks in a pre-season draft. It is vital.

Correct Rhino, the pre-season draft may become just as important as the draft.

Think if two really talented players don't re-sign, we will be shattered to find that we cannot get them because we have pick 4.

Pick 2 could get us a ready made start without trading. Ala Nick Stevens to Carlton. Players like him can be in the top 1 and 2 picks in a pre-season draft. It is vital.

i was under the impression that PPs arent applicable to the PSD.

if MFC win on the weekend, it will be

1)richmond

2)carlton

3) Melbourne

can anyone confirm?

anyways...honestly people, in this draft pick 2 or 4 is ZEROZEROZEROZERO difference. so stop wingeing about something so small...having pick 2 instead of pick 4 will not leave us in a stronger position going into next year, and it will NOT make a huge difference on the future of our club.

The only thing that should be being discussed is that if we win, we lose pick 18.

pick 18 would be a great bonus. some really great players have come thru at pick 18 before. but it is NO guerentee, and if we dont get that extra pick it is not the end of the world.

it is carlton who have something real to lose. they essentally lose pick 1 if they win. pick 1 is almost always a star/class player that can certaqinly effect the future results of ur club. people who believe it would be disastrous if we win simply do not understand that picks dont guerentee anything...especially when its a pick around 20.

that said, pick 18 would be a bonus, and id prefer us to lose

no i think people are overrating how much we have to lose (by winning).

essentially we will only lose pick 18.

pick 2 or 4 is no difference. Kruiser is pick 1 for sure.

Cotchin, Morton and Ebert are all legitimate pick 2 (which means at pick 4 one of them will still be availabel and we could get lucky and have the best on left). just remember L.Franklin at pick 5. Henderson and McEvoy would also be ripper picks at pick 4. pick 2 or 4 is not crucial.

pick 18 would be great tho. dont get me wrong id long the extra pick!!!!!! but its not on the same level as losing pick 1

'sylvinator', It seems to me that your the one not getting it. Your right in what you say about us losing the priority pick but where you seem to be off the mark is you don't seem to realise how good carltons list really is & how much stronger they will become with this years draft. They're a powerfull list allready that are underdeveloped in game terms, they're going to be awesome & leave us in their dust come '09.

'sylvinator', It seems to me that your the one not getting it. Your right in what you say about us losing the priority pick but where you seem to be off the mark is you don't seem to realise how good carltons list really is & how much stronger they will become with this years draft. They're a powerfull list allready that are underdeveloped in game terms, they're going to be awesome & leave us in their dust come '09.

Yep,

M. Murphy, B. Gibbs, B. Fevola, J. Waite, S. O'Hailpin, soon to be M. Kruezer, N. Stevens, A. Carrazzo, K. Simpson, A. Bentick, J. Kennedy, J. Russel.

Alot of incredible young talent. People really underate Carlton.

soon to be M. Kruezer

Kreuzer could be the greatest ruckman/forward the game has ever seen, or he could be the next Josh Fraser. It's easy to dominate the under 18s when you're 200cm tall, not so easy when you're in the big league and come across Dean Cox .... who by the way was a rookie! I'm extremely fragile about taking a big bloke with our first pick, I'd much rather have a gun midfielder along the lines of Judd, Hodge or Kerr.

I really don't care about Carlton's picks. When it comes to the draft, I'll just be content with what Craig selects with pick 3 or 4. Just remember that West Coast got Judd with pick 3, not pick 1. The only thing I'll miss if we win on Sunday is not having pick 18 or 19.

Yep,

M. Murphy, B. Gibbs, B. Fevola, J. Waite, S. O'Hailpin, soon to be M. Kruezer, N. Stevens, A. Carrazzo, K. Simpson, A. Bentick, J. Kennedy, J. Russel.

Alot of incredible young talent. People really underate Carlton.

It's pretty hard to rate a team that is about to finish bottom 4 for the fourth year in a row.

It's pretty hard to rate a team that is about to finish bottom 4 for the fourth year in a row.

They were going pretty well at the start of the year, Stevens was flying.

Kreuzer could be the greatest ruckman/forward the game has ever seen, or he could be the next Josh Fraser. It's easy to dominate the under 18s when you're 200cm tall, not so easy when you're in the big league and come across Dean Cox .... who by the way was a rookie! I'm extremely fragile about taking a big bloke with our first pick, I'd much rather have a gun midfielder along the lines of Judd, Hodge or Kerr.

I really don't care about Carlton's picks. When it comes to the draft, I'll just be content with what Craig selects with pick 3 or 4. Just remember that West Coast got Judd with pick 3, not pick 1. The only thing I'll miss if we win on Sunday is not having pick 18 or 19.

Yeah but if Judd was injury free he would have gone number 1 for sure.

Kreuzer could be the greatest ruckman/forward the game has ever seen, or he could be the next Josh Fraser. It's easy to dominate the under 18s when you're 200cm tall, not so easy when you're in the big league and come across Dean Cox .... who by the way was a rookie! I'm extremely fragile about taking a big bloke with our first pick, I'd much rather have a gun midfielder along the lines of Judd, Hodge or Kerr.

Exactly Maurie. Drafting a big man with your first pick is not the silver bullet people are building it up to be around here.

fair call that it "mightn't" be the silver bullet...but it might be. Well to put into context. You dont often get the choice of this kinda talent. Big men moving !!. Past drafts dont seem to have offered up such gems in the ranks of the rucks. Yes , some good talent, but some of these guys are standout.

It the COMBINATION of circumstances which lends weight to tyh eimportance of these piccks.

1) We are desperate to reinvent our ruck

2) we will have a good early pick

3) there is outstandig talent in the big boy dept top be had ..but will go early

it is very unlikely we will get such a choice for some time as we will be better next year and it seems 'taller stock' of this calibre only come around once in a long while.

We do have some midfileders....they need feeding. well they need to be injury free and fit first I suppose. But we do have them.Topping up is a priority..but its behind getting a new tall, even if its unlikely he would do that much in the first year. Keep in mind any real change of fortunes will take 2-3 years.

Yes I agree....its not a guaranteed cure all. But it WILL help.

'sylvinator', It seems to me that your the one not getting it. Your right in what you say about us losing the priority pick but where you seem to be off the mark is you don't seem to realise how good carltons list really is & how much stronger they will become with this years draft. They're a powerfull list allready that are underdeveloped in game terms, they're going to be awesome & leave us in their dust come '09.

you're joking right. DV8 u r a joke.

firstly, it seems hard to comprehend that u rate carlton's list so highly. in the last 6 seasons they have won a total of 28 games. in terms of onfield performance, this is far far far worse than Fitroy in their last 5-6 years in the afl before being desolved. on field carlton are an absolute disgrace.

true they have a few young up-n-coming stars in Waite,gibbs,murphey and Walker...but thats an obvious consequence of coming last every year (though they are still feeling the repercussions of losing 2 top5 picks due to salary cap cheating ).

their list is not underrated. everyone acknowledges their young stars, but as a club they have a shocking culture that prefers losing to winning. They have not had many injuries this season (bar Nick Stevens for the year) and yet they still have lost the last 11 matches in a row.

they are a developing list, but like StKilda have proven, number 1 draft picks do not guerntee success. StKilda have more top 10 draft picks in their team than Carlton do, dont be mislead by a few top draft picks.

The teams who are consistently at the top of the ladder have NOT built their list by coming last for 6 years straight. PortAdelaide has rebuilt their list in 3 years. since the 2004 premiership they have changed half their list and now they are coming 2nd of the ladder. They did NOT rebuild their list with top 10 draft picks (their ONLY high pick is Boak at pick5). they did it with picks like Pierce and Westoff and other type young guns. they are in 100000 times better shape than Carlton and if u cant realize this u are dumb

secondly, when i think about whether i want MFC to win this week, it has only to do with 1 thing. i want the demons to have pick 18 so we are in a strong drafting position at years end.

it has NOTHING to do with carlton's consequence if they lose.

DV8 u really shouldnt be worrying about losing so that we can rob carlton of pick 1. there have been 11 teams who could have done that in the last 11 weeks.

worry about the demons and not about carlton. because come the next 2-3 years, it will be the Geelongs, PortAdelaide and WestCoasts that we will be contending with. NOT CARLTON!

i would prefer us to lose bc i see it giving us a distinct drafting advantage while we try to rebuild a premiership list. NOT, like DV8 does, bc im petty and want to rob carlton of a pick after theyv lost 11 games in a row.

go dees

Kreuzer could be the greatest ruckman/forward the game has ever seen, or he could be the next Josh Fraser. It's easy to dominate the under 18s when you're 200cm tall, not so easy when you're in the big league and come across Dean Cox .... who by the way was a rookie! I'm extremely fragile about taking a big bloke with our first pick, I'd much rather have a gun midfielder along the lines of Judd, Hodge or Kerr.

I really don't care about Carlton's picks. When it comes to the draft, I'll just be content with what Craig selects with pick 3 or 4. Just remember that West Coast got Judd with pick 3, not pick 1. The only thing I'll miss if we win on Sunday is not having pick 18 or 19.

Is that right bobby, what if THEY picked Cotchin 1 & then Ebert or Palmer or some' 3 & trade P19 for a Warnock or someone?

We do have some midfileders....they need feeding. well they need to be injury free and fit first I suppose.

interesting considering we win the hit outs most weeks yet lose the clearances? suggests the mids arent doing their bit...

yet i agree with your theory. a good tall always beats a good small, as the saying goes. realistically you must pick the best player available, however if you rank 2 players very similar then pick the tall...they are harder to come by and if the players are equally as good will be more valuable in the long run...

you're joking right. DV8 u r a joke.

firstly, it seems hard to comprehend that u rate carlton's list so highly. in the last 6 seasons they have won a total of 28 games. in terms of onfield performance, this is far far far worse than Fitroy in their last 5-6 years in the afl before being desolved. on field carlton are an absolute disgrace.

true they have a few young up-n-coming stars in Waite,gibbs,murphey and Walker...but thats an obvious consequence of coming last every year (though they are still feeling the repercussions of losing 2 top5 picks due to salary cap cheating ).

their list is not underrated. everyone acknowledges their young stars, but as a club they have a shocking culture that prefers losing to winning. They have not had many injuries this season (bar Nick Stevens for the year) and yet they still have lost the last 11 matches in a row.

they are a developing list, but like StKilda have proven, number 1 draft picks do not guerntee success. StKilda have more top 10 draft picks in their team than Carlton do, dont be mislead by a few top draft picks.

The teams who are consistently at the top of the ladder have NOT built their list by coming last for 6 years straight. PortAdelaide has rebuilt their list in 3 years. since the 2004 premiership they have changed half their list and now they are coming 2nd of the ladder. They did NOT rebuild their list with top 10 draft picks (their ONLY high pick is Boak at pick5). they did it with picks like Pierce and Westoff and other type young guns. they are in 100000 times better shape than Carlton and if u cant realize this u are dumb

secondly, when i think about whether i want MFC to win this week, it has only to do with 1 thing. i want the demons to have pick 18 so we are in a strong drafting position at years end.

it has NOTHING to do with carlton's consequence if they lose.

DV8 u really shouldnt be worrying about losing so that we can rob carlton of pick 1. there have been 11 teams who could have done that in the last 11 weeks.

worry about the demons and not about carlton. because come the next 2-3 years, it will be the Geelongs, PortAdelaide and WestCoasts that we will be contending with. NOT CARLTON!

i would prefer us to lose bc i see it giving us a distinct drafting advantage while we try to rebuild a premiership list. NOT, like DV8 does, bc im petty and want to rob carlton of a pick after theyv lost 11 games in a row.

go dees

Yes that's right, their tanks have been rumbling along for a couple of years now, even to the point of deliberately undermining Pagan & sacking his leiutenant to aid poor onfield results whilst getting games into the kids @ the bullants & blues.

Oh gee', sorry u seem so disturbed.

Is a 199cm ruckman worth having? A kid that size will dominate at their under age competitions. I would rather pick up a fast skillful midfielder with our first pick and then look to see if there is a 205+cm ruckman avaliable later in the draft. Ruckman are over rated, all you want is someone that will give you a contest. The theory that a ruckman gives you first hands on the ball may be right for a small percentage of ruck contests but really its the midfield being able to read the contest that makes them look good. Would Cox be so highly rated if he didn't have Judd, Kerr, Cousins and co at his feet, look at Spider Everate one of the best tap ruckmans for years, no sucess at St kilda, none at Hawthorn and Sydney have gone backwards this year, so does having the best ruckman win you a flag, IMO No, the midfielders around him do.

We are two quality fast midfielders away from having a midfield good enough to compete with the top teams midfields. Then we need to find a tall defender and CHF but it may not be this draft. Our main priority is to inject some explosive pace into our midfield, look at Mclean, Jones, Sylvia, Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney all are one paced with no explosive speed of the mark, they receive the ball and in a contested situation can't accelerate out of the congestion. I'm not talking about how fast thy can run 100m its the first 5-10m thats important.

interesting considering we win the hit outs most weeks yet lose the clearances? suggests the mids arent doing their bit...

They don't get the clearences because the hitouts are never to advantage, White and Jamar knock it down to the opposition.

We are two quality fast midfielders away from having a midfield good enough to compete with the top teams midfields. Then we need to find a tall defender and CHF but it may not be this draft. Our main priority is to inject some explosive pace into our midfield, look at Mclean, Jones, Sylvia, Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney all are one paced with no explosive speed of the mark, they receive the ball and in a contested situation can't accelerate out of the congestion. I'm not talking about how fast thy can run 100m its the first 5-10m thats important.

Midfielders ... you always need 'em.

A gun midfielder early in the draft would still be my major priority, especially a quick one. I can also see Buckley having a spot if he develops, he has height on his side too.

I reckon we're working towards having Dunn as a midfielder who can play back or forward and take advantage of his height ... a mobile 192cm player of that versatility would be a godsend, especially as backline insurance.

We really missed Rivers and Bartram this year. Newton has huge potential because he is good at ground level as well as above his head.

Newton has huge potential because he is good at ground level as well as above his head.

but with a massive turning circle...which makes me think he is a FF not a CHF...

Is a 199cm ruckman worth having? A kid that size will dominate at their under age competitions. I would rather pick up a fast skillful midfielder with our first pick and then look to see if there is a 205+cm ruckman avaliable later in the draft. Ruckman are over rated, all you want is someone that will give you a contest. The theory that a ruckman gives you first hands on the ball may be right for a small percentage of ruck contests but really its the midfield being able to read the contest that makes them look good. Would Cox be so highly rated if he didn't have Judd, Kerr, Cousins and co at his feet, look at Spider Everate one of the best tap ruckmans for years, no sucess at St kilda, none at Hawthorn and Sydney have gone backwards this year, so does having the best ruckman win you a flag, IMO No, the midfielders around him do.

We are two quality fast midfielders away from having a midfield good enough to compete with the top teams midfields. Then we need to find a tall defender and CHF but it may not be this draft. Our main priority is to inject some explosive pace into our midfield, look at Mclean, Jones, Sylvia, Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney all are one paced with no explosive speed of the mark, they receive the ball and in a contested situation can't accelerate out of the congestion. I'm not talking about how fast thy can run 100m its the first 5-10m thats important.

Good post Dr. I would lower the height on a good ruckman to 200cm +. I aint seen many that a good over 205cm. I will take one if they are any good.

Freak:

But all those players you have mentioned can play midfield. Maric is only a marking player. The thing is that if he's not playing at FF then he's useless. Only Brown has played at FF at AFL level and he has been an All Australian at half back too.

6 foot full forwards do not go in the top 20 if they can't play midfield. Because if they're getting beaten up forward then they are useless.

Is a 199cm ruckman worth having? A kid that size will dominate at their under age competitions. I would rather pick up a fast skillful midfielder with our first pick and then look to see if there is a 205+cm ruckman avaliable later in the draft. Ruckman are over rated, all you want is someone that will give you a contest. The theory that a ruckman gives you first hands on the ball may be right for a small percentage of ruck contests but really its the midfield being able to read the contest that makes them look good. Would Cox be so highly rated if he didn't have Judd, Kerr, Cousins and co at his feet, look at Spider Everate one of the best tap ruckmans for years, no sucess at St kilda, none at Hawthorn and Sydney have gone backwards this year, so does having the best ruckman win you a flag, IMO No, the midfielders around him do.

We are two quality fast midfielders away from having a midfield good enough to compete with the top teams midfields. Then we need to find a tall defender and CHF but it may not be this draft. Our main priority is to inject some explosive pace into our midfield, look at Mclean, Jones, Sylvia, Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney all are one paced with no explosive speed of the mark, they receive the ball and in a contested situation can't accelerate out of the congestion. I'm not talking about how fast thy can run 100m its the first 5-10m thats important.

What about a 199cm key forward? A player with the agility like Kreuzer could easily become a dominant forward, and they are as rare as hens teeth.

if we snare matt, which other talls will we release